Proficiency Expectations : Quite Disappointed...

[DexGames]

I'm a little disappointed, no offense of course :

 

Regarding the Glorious comeback of Weapon Proficiency, when they annouunced it, I was really exited & looked forward to it.

In addition to that, I was LOGICALLY expecting the Traditional System of "Ranks" within it.

 

Instead, you get to choose a weapon, & there you go, you're an Expert...

I was really expecting to Evolve all my Characters,

 

From :

• Novice = Shooting at my own testicle while aiming at a Ennemy with my Gun.
  

To

• GrandMaster = Where I get to accurately aim at an Ennemy Testicle. (Sorry, I had to find something to illustrate my point...   )
  

 

I find it overwhelming that at Level 5 (Only Lvl 5 !), I'm already proficient in 3 Categories of Weapons / Shields / Etc...

• What should we expect for Level 20 ? EACH Character of the party, Proficient in 12+ Categories ? With 12+ Modals ? It makes no sense at all to me, I really don't dig that...
  

Aside from the fact that probably no one, will switch between all these Modals over the course of One Single Fight...

 

When I think about weapon proficiency, I expect to choose One / Two Weapons, Three would be the Absolute Maximum, & even then, I don't think I'd want three...

 

I wanna choose something that fit the Playstyle I'm aiming at, with a particular Character, Specialize him, Stick to it & get Better at it.

If I made a mistake, or want to change over the course of the Game : Inn > Respec > Happy.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DexGames

[mrmonocle]

I actually like the current approach. It feels just about right as a small nice addition and fits the system perfectly without breaking anything.

[blotter]

I also like the idea of multiple levels of proficiency in various weapons, but I also find the idea of proficiency-based modals more interesting than the typical progression of proficiencies in, say, 2e D&D (i.e., straight up damage bonuses, attack bonuses, and/or attack speed bonuses) and I can understand how making a bunch of weapon-specific modals based on proficiency level would introduce a lot more work that increasingly large subsets of the player population would be unlikely to ever see the higher up you go in terms of proficiency levels.

 

Perhaps another option to reflect increasing proficiency would be to have multiple proficiency points spent on the same weapon adjust the bonuses/penalties associated with its modal ability, but this introduces new balance concerns, exacerbates existing ones in regards to the power disparities between specific weapon modals, and also runs counter to the developers' intent to make sure that the weapon modals weren't no-brainer options in combat.

[theBalthazar]

Hum...

 

There is a thing with proficiency that bothers me...

 

You take a modal with your choice. But, this modal is not... a real bonus. It is 50 / 50. This choice is... weak.

 

For me, a good way can be to :

 

ACTUAL SYSTEM

 

- Proficiency give a neutral modal.

 

POSSIBLE SYSYEM

 

- Neutral modal accessible to everyone.

- Proficiency give an improved version of this neutral modal.

- +x accuracy for each proficiency (even a small number like 3)

 

___________________________________________________________

 

So, we have "neutral" modal WITHOUT investment. A neutral modal like now in fact. AND with an investment, you gain a better modal. Like :

 

VULNERABLE THRUST - ESTOC (Base modal without investment) :

+2 penetration - 20 deflection

 

IMPROVED VULNERABLE THRUST - ESTOC (Upgraded modal with investment) :

+3 penetration -10 deflection

+x accuracy

 

We stay with a malus, no problem with that, but more... attractive.

Edited December 6, 2017 by theBalthazar

[dunehunter]

What about 3 level of weapon proficiency, the first level is what the current system is, the 2nd level half the penalty of the modal, the 3rd level remove the penalty of modal.

 

And only fighters can level the weapon proficiency to level 3?

 

Easy to imply and understand.

[DexGames]

What about 3 level of weapon proficiency, the first level is what the current system is, the 2nd level half the penalty of the modal, the 3rd level remove the penalty of modal.

 

And only fighters can level the weapon proficiency to level 3?

 

Easy to imply and understand.

 

Sounds Ok, would prefer 5 Ranks overall. Only Fighters allowed to Rank 5 seems quite restrictive though. A Defensive Focused Paladin should be able to acces a Lvl 5 Shields Proficiency for exemple.

As a Rogue should be allowed to acces Lvl 5 Dagger / Stylettos / Pistols... Or the melee Wizard summoning weapons (which was awesome to play btw), could specialze in Quaterstaff / Etc.

 

Maybe no restrictions at all, (regarding Max Rank) for any class, as long as you invest in it. Instead of a new active ability, or passive one... It's a trade-off choice you'd make.

 

As Bhaltazar said, I also meant a bonus to Accuracy when Ranking Up in any given Weapon, even a slight Bonus.

As for Modal, make it Evolve / Ranks up looks also great.

Edited December 6, 2017 by DexGames

[dunehunter]

 

What about 3 level of weapon proficiency, the first level is what the current system is, the 2nd level half the penalty of the modal, the 3rd level remove the penalty of modal.

 

And only fighters can level the weapon proficiency to level 3?

 

Easy to imply and understand.

 

Sounds Ok, would prefer 5 Ranks overall. Only Fighters allowed to Rank 5 seems quite restrictive though. A Defensive Focused Paladin should be able to acces a Lvl 5 Shields Proficiency for exemple. As a Rogue should be allowed to acces Lvl 5 Dagger / Stylettos / Pistols...

 

Maybe no restrictions at all, for any class, as long as you invest in it. Instead of a new active ability, or passive one... It  a trade-off choice you'd make.

 

As Bhaltazar said, I also meant a bonus to Accuracy when Ranking Up in a said Weapon, even a slight Bonus.

As for Modal, make it Evolve / Ranks up ?

 

 

Rank 5 sounds too complicated for me. And I only think Fighters should get access to the highest level because their passive abilities will be shared in generic pool in next patch. So it's fair for them to grant some advantage in weapon proficiency imo.

 

Talking about bonus to weapon of proficiency, there is already an ability called Weapon Focus that serves the purpose.

 

And people are talking about the penalty of the modal is too much to use, so reduce penalty when one have higher level in weapon proficiency seems better to me.

Edited December 6, 2017 by dunehunter

[DexGames]

 

 

What about 3 level of weapon proficiency, the first level is what the current system is, the 2nd level half the penalty of the modal, the 3rd level remove the penalty of modal.

 

And only fighters can level the weapon proficiency to level 3?

 

Easy to imply and understand.

 

Sounds Ok, would prefer 5 Ranks overall. Only Fighters allowed to Rank 5 seems quite restrictive though. A Defensive Focused Paladin should be able to acces a Lvl 5 Shields Proficiency for exemple. As a Rogue should be allowed to acces Lvl 5 Dagger / Stylettos / Pistols...

 

Maybe no restrictions at all, for any class, as long as you invest in it. Instead of a new active ability, or passive one... It  a trade-off choice you'd make.

 

As Bhaltazar said, I also meant a bonus to Accuracy when Ranking Up in a said Weapon, even a slight Bonus.

As for Modal, make it Evolve / Ranks up ?

 

 

Rank 5 sounds too complicated for me. And I only think Fighters should get access to the highest level because their passive abilities will be shared in generic pool in next patch. So it's fair for them to grant some advantage in weapon proficiency imo.

 

Talking about bonus to weapon of proficiency, there is already an ability called Weapon Focus that serves the purpose.

 

And people are talking about the penalty of the modal is too much to use, so reduce penalty when one have higher level in weapon proficiency seems better to me.

 

 

I see your point, & I'd be totally ok with it, if that's what would be chosen in the end.

But still, Proficiency System needs to be Way Deeper than "Pick One & Done". A sense of Evolution is missing...

Edited December 6, 2017 by DexGames

[cheesevillain]

I see your point, & I'd be totally ok with it, if that's what would be chosen in the end.

But still, Proficiency System needs to be Way Deeper than "Pick One & Done". A sense of Evolution is missing...

 

 

 

Well, soon we'll be able to pick talents such as "weapon & shield style" and "two-handed style" on the same chart as weapon proficiencies, which complement weapon proficiencies. With that, there's at least a two step evolution.

[Quillon]

What about 3 level of weapon proficiency, the first level is what the current system is, the 2nd level half the penalty of the modal, the 3rd level remove the penalty of modal.

 

And only fighters can level the weapon proficiency to level 3?

 

Easy to imply and understand.

 

Don't think there'll ever be no penalty modal, cos then why would it be a modal instead of straight up perma-buff? 

 

Only 2 ranks would be good IMO, with Black Jacket starting with all melee ones & Unbroken getting 1 or 2 more proficiency points and all other classes has to to choose between having modals on most and more efficient with some.

 

Maybe there should be a penalty using weps that you're not proficient in so having the first rank becomes more attractive.

[KDubya]

I like the freedom that the current system has.

 

As long as you are not a Devoted or a Barbarian (both of whom get big bonuses for using proficient weapons), you are free to use whatever you want as there are no penalties. Find a cool Great Sword? Go ahead and use it. Proficiency just gets you access to a modal that may or may not be useful. Its an extra bonus that is great if its handy and if not its fine as it was basically free anyway.

 

Going to a system where you can only use proficient weapons seems really limiting and overly promotes and rewards meta-knowledge of what are the best weapons.

[Quillon]

As long as you are not a Devoted or a Barbarian (both of whom get big bonuses for using proficient weapons),

 

Oh, what does Barbarian gain more?(have no beta access). If barb has some advantage, nothing should be changed! Have I mentioned that I love the current proficiency system and its just perfect?

[KDubya]

 

As long as you are not a Devoted or a Barbarian (both of whom get big bonuses for using proficient weapons),

 

Oh, what does Barbarian gain more?(have no beta access). If barb has some advantage, nothing should be changed! Have I mentioned that I love the current proficiency system and its just perfect?

 

 

Barbarians are the only ones with Weapon Focus or whatever its called that gives +6 accuracy to proficient weapons.

[Quillon]

 

 

As long as you are not a Devoted or a Barbarian (both of whom get big bonuses for using proficient weapons),

 

Oh, what does Barbarian gain more?(have no beta access). If barb has some advantage, nothing should be changed! Have I mentioned that I love the current proficiency system and its just perfect?

 

 

Barbarians are the only ones with Weapon Focus or whatever its called that gives +6 accuracy to proficient weapons.

 

Hmn, may not stay exclusive after general talents reintroduced.

[Wormerine]

What about 3 level of weapon proficiency, the first level is what the current system is, the 2nd level half the penalty of the modal, the 3rd level remove the penalty of modal.

 

And only fighters can level the weapon proficiency to level 3?

 

Easy to imply and understand.

If you remove modals’ penalty they stop being modals though, right? There is no reason to turn them off. Which potentially makes a fighter with no modals on his weapons of choice an even more boring character to play.