Chanters still garbage?

[Benedictous]

Just wanting to see if old Fergus has followed through with his statement that chanters were going to be so awesome. They sucked bad in PoE unless you were doing a solo playthrough. Just a really really really bad priest with summons and abilities that could only be used as the final monster of the pack you were fighting dies.

 

Anything new?

[Heijoushin]

Well, I'm currently trying out a wizard / beckoner (chanter summoning subclass). Sort of going for a necromancer theme. Anyway, as a beckoner, I can immediately summon 6 skeletons at the beginning of combat, which is extremely satisfying. There doesn't seem to be anything new as such, but as least you can get the summons out more quickly. 

[KDubya]

Chanters were one of the best characters to have on your team. All of their abilities make the team better. Unfortunately you needed to play on the harder PotD, perhaps with only four guys to really get an appreciation of the power they brought. At lower difficulties mobs got smoked too fast.

[Boeroer]

Chanter is a great class in PoE, from beginning to end, if you know how to play him (and adapt your playstyle to his slower pace).

 

But Chanter in the beta starts with phrases - which lets you open combat with an invocation. I start every combat with either Killers or Hel Hyraf (lowering armor is so beneficial right now). And I feel my Skald/Berserker constantly gets new phrases because of crits (berserkers have some stuff that lets them crit quite often). I yet have to find out if Carnage-crits really work with this, too. Because Carnage got changed and now doesn't use weapon damage anymore but raw damage. Maybe those crits don't produce phrases...

 

Beckoner with Skeletons and the ability to break down a skeleton into two lesser skeletons can really fill the map.

Too bad there's no Spark the Souls of the Righteous in the beta. And no Heart of Fury (friendly-fire berserker could really skyrocket his HoF attacks with the help of skeletons).

Edited November 18, 2017 by Boeroer

[dragubaba]

Avid melee fighter who provides my party of six +10 to deflection whilst summoning stuff and paralyzing groups of enemies. yes, complete garbage.

[Benedictous]

Well, I'm currently trying out a wizard / beckoner (chanter summoning subclass). Sort of going for a necromancer theme. Anyway, as a beckoner, I can immediately summon 6 skeletons at the beginning of combat, which is extremely satisfying. There doesn't seem to be anything new as such, but as least you can get the summons out more quickly. 

 

Chanter is a great class in PoE, from beginning to end, if you know how to play him (and adapt your playstyle to his slower pace).

 

But Chanter in the beta starts with phrases - which lets you open combat with an invocation.

Beckoner with Skeletons and the ability to break down a skeleton into two lesser skeletons can really fill the map.

 

Sounds like they fixed the fundamental issue, not being able to do anything at the start of combat. 6 Skeletons sounds insane and a little OP as an opener as the AI used to target the weakest things first, giving you a massive advantage at the opener. Now they need to work on chants as they are pretty weak for the most part IMO and not a substitute for a priest at all (which by the spells looks to be similar). 

 

They also need to work on the linger system and the chants actually falling off. It is heavily inspired by the Everquest 1 Bard (the linger system) and EQ bards had amazingly good songs that buffed the party so much it warranted taking a Bard over another DPS. Something the current Chanter would not bring to a 6 man party. They also could stack up to 4 buffs at the same time. And later on their spells began to merge together at higher levels so you didn't have as many trade-offs running your new chants. All these things the current Chanter in PoE1 is missing. 

[Heijoushin]

Well, keep in mind that although the Beckoner can summon faster, his summons are actually weaker (Ironic for a summoner based class), so the skeletons aren't that OP. Although IMHO it's still cooler than anything the wizard can do at this point. 

 

Indeed, while the invocations are great, the chants still need work. This was discussed in another thread, but a lot of them aren't very useful or are too situation specific. Like a chant that removes concentration. Perhaps they did that purposely so players will switch chants based on the situation.

[cheesevillain]

Sounds like they fixed the fundamental issue, not being able to do anything at the start of combat. 6 Skeletons sounds insane and a little OP as an opener as the AI used to target the weakest things first, giving you a massive advantage at the opener. Now they need to work on chants as they are pretty weak for the most part IMO and not a substitute for a priest at all (which by the spells looks to be similar). 

 

They also need to work on the linger system and the chants actually falling off. It is heavily inspired by the Everquest 1 Bard (the linger system) and EQ bards had amazingly good songs that buffed the party so much it warranted taking a Bard over another DPS. Something the current Chanter would not bring to a 6 man party. They also could stack up to 4 buffs at the same time. And later on their spells began to merge together at higher levels so you didn't have as many trade-offs running your new chants. All these things the current Chanter in PoE1 is missing. 

 

 

 

 I... don't like the sound of the EQ system. If all the buffs get stacked together, there's no interesting choices about how to mix your songs together.

 I agree with the others that Chanters were great in PoE. They're largely the same as they were. You can still stack three buffs at once with one active phrase, one lingering phrase, and one support invocation all at the same time. 

 There's a phrases-over-invocations subclass called Troubadour that receives a longer linger time. It's pretty cool.

If you want a REALLY dedicated support character, you can do something like multiclass a Chanter with a Paladin, and use phrases and your zealous auras simultaneously. And at the same time using support invocations and the many other Paladin support abilities.

[Benedictous]

 

Sounds like they fixed the fundamental issue, not being able to do anything at the start of combat. 6 Skeletons sounds insane and a little OP as an opener as the AI used to target the weakest things first, giving you a massive advantage at the opener. Now they need to work on chants as they are pretty weak for the most part IMO and not a substitute for a priest at all (which by the spells looks to be similar). 

 

They also need to work on the linger system and the chants actually falling off. It is heavily inspired by the Everquest 1 Bard (the linger system) and EQ bards had amazingly good songs that buffed the party so much it warranted taking a Bard over another DPS. Something the current Chanter would not bring to a 6 man party. They also could stack up to 4 buffs at the same time. And later on their spells began to merge together at higher levels so you didn't have as many trade-offs running your new chants. All these things the current Chanter in PoE1 is missing. 

 

 

 

 I... don't like the sound of the EQ system. If all the buffs get stacked together, there's no interesting choices about how to mix your songs together.

 I agree with the others that Chanters were great in PoE. They're largely the same as they were. You can still stack three buffs at once with one active phrase, one lingering phrase, and one support invocation all at the same time.

 

 

You don't have a choice at all now. Its just Dragon Thrashed/ Aeth uth Mythr or whatever/ Reload Speed. Been awhile since I looked at it but I remember the 12+ chants being pretty useless looking. 

A priest doesn't not buff someone stats at higher levels, his buffs just get better. Chanters lose buffs.

[takamorisan]

I wouldn't call chanters garbage, they sure lack build options.

[Benedictous]

This is Chanters. Just change Maelstrom to Invocations/Chants and Ele shamans to Chanters

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Benedictous

[cheesevillain]

 

You don't have a choice at all now. Its just Dragon Thrashed/ Aeth uth Mythr or whatever/ Reload Speed. Been awhile since I looked at it but I remember the 12+ chants being pretty useless looking. 

 

 

 

I remember thinking the same thing, until I actually used a chanter and found that most of those phrases were actually pretty dang useful. There's not a single phrase on that list that I haven't found useful at some point. A chanter is a swiss army knife. It has a lot of fussy parts, and every part is really situational, but if you get to know how all the parts work, you'll find it's really useful. And it's especially useful when you find that you can produce three buffs simultaneously for your entire party, no matter how spread out they are on the battlefield. No other class comes close to that. Chanters can do all that, and at the same time they're smacking your enemies in the face with a big sword.

 

Chanters are sweet. They have a lot of build options, especially in PoE2. They're weird, and they're not for everybody. They're fussy and confusing at first, but they really reward a player who gets to know them.

[Boeroer]

Although now I'm really sad that Ancient Memory is a phrase instead of a passive talent in Deadfire.

[Benedictous]

 

 

You don't have a choice at all now. Its just Dragon Thrashed/ Aeth uth Mythr or whatever/ Reload Speed. Been awhile since I looked at it but I remember the 12+ chants being pretty useless looking. 

 

 

 

I remember thinking the same thing, until I actually used a chanter and found that most of those phrases were actually pretty dang useful. There's not a single phrase on that list that I haven't found useful at some point. A chanter is a swiss army knife. It has a lot of fussy parts, and every part is really situational, but if you get to know how all the parts work, you'll find it's really useful. And it's especially useful when you find that you can produce three buffs simultaneously for your entire party, no matter how spread out they are on the battlefield. No other class comes close to that. Chanters can do all that, and at the same time they're smacking your enemies in the face with a big sword.

 

Chanters are sweet. They have a lot of build options, especially in PoE2. They're weird, and they're not for everybody. They're fussy and confusing at first, but they really reward a player who gets to know them.

 

Chanters are a dull butter knife. Also most of your post is completely false which makes me wonder if you have played a chanter. Chants have a range and its pretty short (by design to not clip mobs over walls), Invocations are usually cones, their melee is usually garbage because they are pumping Int and Resolve and have no multipliers w/ low base accuracy 

[cheesevillain]

Although now I'm really sad that Ancient Memory is a phrase instead of a passive talent in Deadfire.

 

I feel your pain.

 

their melee is usually garbage because they are pumping Int and Resolve and have no multipliers w/ low base accuracy 

 

 

You know, min/maxing is not absolutely necessary to make competitive characters. Their melee doesn't have to be garbage, they can be effective at long range, and they don't need 18 Int to be effective. And the fact that they can cast buffs and attack simultaneously means that they can don't have to do either optimally to be valuable.

You're totally right about the limited phrase range. It's been a while since I've played a chanter for a significant time period. As of yet, I've only played a few fights with one in the beta.

I'm not wrong that a chanter can easily apply three buffs simultaneously with both phrases and invocations.

 

Chanters are a dull butter knife.

 

It's fine that you feel that way.  A lot of other people feel differently, and there's no consensus that Chanters were either useless nor unfunny in PoE1. There are at least a few modifications to Chanters that make I think will make you like them at least a little better than PoE1.

Edited November 19, 2017 by cheesevillain

[Benedictous]

Although now I'm really sad that Ancient Memory is a phrase instead of a passive talent in Deadfire.

 

Wanted to ask what your thoughts on multi classing Priest/Chanter was for maximum buffage. Chanters might be worth it if you can add other classes abilities to them lol

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Chanters in PoE 1 weren't that impressive but they were substantial and got better the longer the fight got.

 

In PoE 2, in the current beta at least, for a lot of different reasons, Chanters currently feel about as important to have in your party as priests were in the first game. They might be too good right now, some of their abilities seem near-mandatory (Hel-hyraf's, the affliction resistance phrases).

Edited November 26, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[KDubya]

Being able to start combat with two phrases in the bank allows for an instant cast of the paralyzing foe only cone. That alone makes them not suck.

 

Really liking a Skald mixed with a Barbarian Mage Slayer. Nice combat potential from the Barbarian and you just stick to a few phrases and use the armor debuff and paralysis invocation as needed. Makes for a useful support member of the team.

[Gromnir]

an orlan skald who multiclasses as either a fighter or rogue is gonna be an effective chanter.  disciplined strikes is a possible fighter talent which increases crit chance by 50%.  at the moment, one-hand weapon recovery is borked.  nevertheless, put a spear or some other accurate weapon in the hand o' a orlan skald/devoted with disciplined strikes active is gonna be able to use invocations at machinegun rates.  and rogues, regardless o' subclass, have numerous options for increasing crit chances. is no disciplined strikes for rogue, but there will be consistant high crit chances for the roguey skald.

 

as already stated in this thread, there is an armour reducing invocation (offensive) available to the chanter which is current a no-brainer selection.  chanters also have more summon options than other classes, and summons continue to be highly efficacious. even so, am not hesitating to say that the chanter is current busted.  because of a single invocation, a chanter is one o' the best force multipliers available in deadfire.  no doubt such an imbalance will be remedied sooner rather than later.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

ABerserker/Skald works even better for me than Devoted (+50% hit to crit, +4 PEN not only for weapons and +4 armor while using frenzy). The raw damage of Sweet Winds of Death adds up nicely in theory with the raw damage of Carnage. You just have to make sure to bring a priest or somebody else who can cast an inspiration that removes confused. Because not only the friendly fire sucks, but especially the INT debuff.

 

I agree that the Hel-Hyraf invocation is too good - or other AR reducing abilities are too bad. Compare it with Expose Vulnerabilities: a lot faster cast and recovery and -5 AR instead of -2. Also not limited by a resource pool.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Boeroer

[molotov.]

Still garbage? Where you were on PoE 1?

[cheesevillain]

I think OP (correct me if I'm wrong) more meant that they were unfun to play, rather than that they were non-competitive.

Edited December 1, 2017 by cheesevillain

[Valci]

That's very subjective... I enjoy my chanters quite a bit. Ofc they shine on higher difficulties where fights last longer but either way they are hardly more boring that the martial classes...

[Ashen Rohk]

The biggest issue in PoE1 was that it was very easy to have an uneffective low-level chanter. True, the high level abilities were great, Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr was actually moved from 1st level to 3rd level Chant when it became apparent how OP it was.

 

I always found a great early Chanter build to have Come, Come Soft Winds of Death, Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe, At the Sight of their Comrades, their Hearts Grew Bold, Lo, Their Endless Host, the Harbingers Doom and Invocations - Thrice She Was Wrong and Thunder Rolled On Waves. Some great buffs/debuffs and some great CC - I always found the low level summons to be relatively ineffective unless you just needed bodies on the field.

 
 

[cheesevillain]

I always found the low level summons to be relatively ineffective unless you just needed bodies on the field.

 

 

Those low level summons were powerful because it IS really useful to have extra bodies on the field, soaking up blows. I found they didn't always FEEL powerful, though.

Edited December 3, 2017 by cheesevillain