Thoughts on Ranger and Ranger Subs..

[morhilane]

You are pigeon-holed into ranged

You aren't. I just checked while making a melee Stalker an cheating getting to level 9 (you can't go higher).

 

8 of the 13 passives aren't ranged weapon based all at. It's a mix of pet and defensive passives. I tested Stalker Link it works with melee ranger by the way.

 

10 of the 15 actives (I'm counting upgrades) do not require a ranged weapon. Only Wounded shot tree and Concussive shot do. Evasive Roll do not, but based on the description Evasive Fire do.

 

Ranged ranger are more DPS-oriented, Melee ranger are more defensive oriented (and pick Stalker for the +5 deflection and + 1 AR bonus).

Edited November 18, 2017 by morhilane

[TheC]

 

You are pigeon-holed into ranged

You aren't. I just checked while making a melee Stalker an cheating getting to level 9 (you can't go higher).

 

8 of the 13 passives aren't ranged weapon based all at. It's a mix of pet and defensive passives. I tested Stalker Link it works with melee ranger by the way.

 

10 of the 15 actives (I'm counting upgrades) do not require a ranged weapon. Only Wounded shot tree and Concussive shot do. Evasive Roll do not, but based on the description Evasive Fire do.

 

Ranged ranger are more DPS-oriented, Melee ranger are more defensive oriented (and pick Stalker for the +5 deflection and + 1 AR bonus).

 

That is good to know. Always nice to have options.

[DigitalCrack]

Yeah PoE1 you could build a pretty good melee ranger. One of my play throughs is a dual wielding ranger and it was really fun.

[cheesevillain]

I definitely want a ranger class without pet-- always have. Ranger as a class in BG was interesting. Ranger as in Aragorn/Drizzt (yeah, he has the panther), is interesting. just give me a quick moving striker that flow from ranged to melee, and can function as a tank when required (channels the soul of it's dead bear pet, or something).

 

 

You can do that easily with Rogue, Monk, Cipher, Fighter, Barb, etc. The Ranger D&D class is just a fighter with a different skin. Drizzt is a fighter. Aragorn is just a fighter.

They may be called Rangers in universe, and have the hunter background and high stealth & survival skills. Similarly, not every professional priest in the PoE universe is part of the Priest class. Asking for a PoE Ranger without a pet is like asking for a Cipher without psychic powers, because Cipher is a character in Warhammer 40k and he doesn't have psychic powers.

 

I have tried, and succeeded at making an effective melee ranger in the Beta. The class is good, but it is not fun. It feels bad that wounding shot doesn't work in melee. The Stalker subclass is useful for a melee build, but doesn't feel very distinct from the base class. I find it weird that the subclass gives a bonus to defence to the Ranger, but the Ranger mostly has damage dealing abilities.

[Katarack21]

 

2. ranger only that is competent in melee but can reach high level ranger abilities (though at this point they are prob ranged also heh). to compensate for mult getting nice fighter stuff and for players to have lore choice  of being a ranger. This is also important for power level of animal. I assume but havent tested that animal is tied to power level so multi mean weaker animal

Nothing currently stop you from putting a melee weapon or two on you ranger in the beta. They can't use the ranged abilities, but the pets ones should still work.

 

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that was how the class was balanced: melee Ranger is low maintenance but buff the pets more because you take more passives (which are mostly pet oriented).

 

So...melee rangers are designed around being super boring?

[draego]

 

I definitely want a ranger class without pet-- always have. Ranger as a class in BG was interesting. Ranger as in Aragorn/Drizzt (yeah, he has the panther), is interesting. just give me a quick moving striker that flow from ranged to melee, and can function as a tank when required (channels the soul of it's dead bear pet, or something).

 

 

You can do that easily with Rogue, Monk, Cipher, Fighter, Barb, etc. The Ranger D&D class is just a fighter with a different skin. Drizzt is a fighter. Aragorn is just a fighter.

They may be called Rangers in universe, and have the hunter background and high stealth & survival skills. Similarly, not every professional priest in the PoE universe is part of the Priest class. Asking for a PoE Ranger without a pet is like asking for a Cipher without psychic powers, because Cipher is a character in Warhammer 40k and he doesn't have psychic powers.

 

I have tried, and succeeded at making an effective melee ranger in the Beta. The class is good, but it is not fun. It feels bad that wounding shot doesn't work in melee. The Stalker subclass is useful for a melee build, but doesn't feel very distinct from the base class. I find it weird that the subclass gives a bonus to defence to the Ranger, but the Ranger mostly has damage dealing abilities.

 

 

Ye to me that is why i like POE rangers. I actually like the pet mechanic. 

[jarvs]

If they allowed Rangers to use the ranged attacks as melee I think it would help out with the issue. 

[cheesevillain]

 

Nothing currently stop you from putting a melee weapon or two on you ranger in the beta. They can't use the ranged abilities, but the pets ones should still work.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that was how the class was balanced: melee Ranger is low maintenance but buff the pets more because you take more passives (which are mostly pet oriented).

 

So...melee rangers are designed around being super boring?

 

 

 

Yes. They are effective, yet boring. They would be a lot less boring if they'd let all their abilities be used with melee attacks.

[jarvs]

 

 

Nothing currently stop you from putting a melee weapon or two on you ranger in the beta. They can't use the ranged abilities, but the pets ones should still work.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that was how the class was balanced: melee Ranger is low maintenance but buff the pets more because you take more passives (which are mostly pet oriented).

 

So...melee rangers are designed around being super boring?

 

 

 

Yes. They are effective, yet boring. They would be a lot less boring if they'd let all their abilities be used with melee attacks.

Yeah probably the worst fate in any RPG, when the your favourite class is good at what it does but is boring as hell. Rogues are allowed to use there abilites with ranged weapons so I think they`re going to change it like it was in PoE1

[morhilane]

 

 

2. ranger only that is competent in melee but can reach high level ranger abilities (though at this point they are prob ranged also heh). to compensate for mult getting nice fighter stuff and for players to have lore choice  of being a ranger. This is also important for power level of animal. I assume but havent tested that animal is tied to power level so multi mean weaker animal

Nothing currently stop you from putting a melee weapon or two on you ranger in the beta. They can't use the ranged abilities, but the pets ones should still work.

 

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that was how the class was balanced: melee Ranger is low maintenance but buff the pets more because you take more passives (which are mostly pet oriented).

 

So...melee rangers are designed around being super boring?

 

 

Low maintenance isn't boring to everyone. Some people don't want to micro-manage everything.

 

And they aren't even that low maintenance after I got to test one. They can use most of the active abilities already in the Ranger page, just not Wounding Shot, Concussive shot and Evasive Fire. Evasive Roll, the not upgraded version of Evasive Fire, works with melee, I tried it.

 

So you can use Marked Prey, Binding Roots and Evasive Roll with melee weapons, along the pet-related actives: Master's Call, Takedown  and Heal pet.

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

2. ranger only that is competent in melee but can reach high level ranger abilities (though at this point they are prob ranged also heh). to compensate for mult getting nice fighter stuff and for players to have lore choice  of being a ranger. This is also important for power level of animal. I assume but havent tested that animal is tied to power level so multi mean weaker animal

Nothing currently stop you from putting a melee weapon or two on you ranger in the beta. They can't use the ranged abilities, but the pets ones should still work.

 

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that was how the class was balanced: melee Ranger is low maintenance but buff the pets more because you take more passives (which are mostly pet oriented).

 

So...melee rangers are designed around being super boring?

 

 

Low maintenance isn't boring to everyone. Some people don't want to micro-manage everything.

 

And they aren't even that low maintenance after I got to test one. They can use most of the active abilities already in the Ranger page, just not Wounding Shot, Concussive shot and Evasive Fire. Evasive Roll, the not upgraded version of Evasive Fire, works with melee, I tried it.

 

So you can use Marked Prey, Binding Roots and Evasive Roll with melee weapons, along the pet-related actives: Master's Call, Takedown  and Heal pet.

 

So all defensive abilities and all the pet abilities. No offensive melee Ranger abilities that aren't pet-specific.

[cheesevillain]

Low maintenance isn't boring to everyone. Some people don't want to micro-manage everything.

 

And they aren't even that low maintenance after I got to test one. They can use most of the active abilities already in the Ranger page, just not Wounding Shot, Concussive shot and Evasive Fire. Evasive Roll, the not upgraded version of Evasive Fire, works with melee, I tried it.

 

So you can use Marked Prey, Binding Roots and Evasive Roll with melee weapons, along the pet-related actives: Master's Call, Takedown  and Heal pet.

 

Some people want to play a Ranger that is a melee combatant that fits side-to-side with their animal friend. Currently, my pet can be great in melee, and can be great in a number of different ways. That's fantastic. My ranger can't be.

There's exactly one ability for the melee ranger, which Marked Prey.

 

They cannot use Wounded Shot, Concussive Shot. They can use Evasive Roll, but it has little use for the melee ranger, and it's upgrade Evasive Shot only works with ranged weapons. Takedown, Heal Companion and Master's call are all pet related abilities. They don't make my ranger better in melee.

Binding Roots also doesn't make my ranger better at melee, and many people dislike the magical nature of the ability for a their martial non-magic character. 

 

That's one ability useful for melee rangers for the 5 levels we've seen. It's useful for a DPS build. There's a melee ranger subclass, the Stalker. It gives a bonus to defence, and is useful for making tank build. These class options are insufficient and incoherent. There is one melee build I can cobble together. There is no variety. Making and playing a melee ranger is currently awkward and unfun.

[morhilane]

 

 

 

 

2. ranger only that is competent in melee but can reach high level ranger abilities (though at this point they are prob ranged also heh). to compensate for mult getting nice fighter stuff and for players to have lore choice  of being a ranger. This is also important for power level of animal. I assume but havent tested that animal is tied to power level so multi mean weaker animal

Nothing currently stop you from putting a melee weapon or two on you ranger in the beta. They can't use the ranged abilities, but the pets ones should still work.

 

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that was how the class was balanced: melee Ranger is low maintenance but buff the pets more because you take more passives (which are mostly pet oriented).

 

So...melee rangers are designed around being super boring?

 

 

Low maintenance isn't boring to everyone. Some people don't want to micro-manage everything.

 

And they aren't even that low maintenance after I got to test one. They can use most of the active abilities already in the Ranger page, just not Wounding Shot, Concussive shot and Evasive Fire. Evasive Roll, the not upgraded version of Evasive Fire, works with melee, I tried it.

 

So you can use Marked Prey, Binding Roots and Evasive Roll with melee weapons, along the pet-related actives: Master's Call, Takedown  and Heal pet.

 

So all defensive abilities and all the pet abilities. No offensive melee Ranger abilities that aren't pet-specific.

 

 

Huh? Marked Prey is an offensive abilities and has nothing to do with the pet. I also consider Binding Roots an offensive ability, even if it "roots" things.

[Katarack21]

Marked Prey is a support ability. It gives you a dmg bonus against a target, so it can be considered offensive in a sense, but when I think of offensive abilities I think of abilities that damage opponents. Giving me a bonus against an opponent, even a damage bonus, is a buff--which in my mind get's filed in "support".

Root abilities are all defensive to me, probably because I pretty much exclusively use them defensively.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Katarack21

[jarvs]

I think is should be labeled as utility/survivability not as offensive like the Roll, not to mention I would ever take it considering that it costs three Bond and could be better spent else where. As for Marked Prey I consider it a support ability were its supposed to be comboed with and spell such as Sworn enemy and Flames of Devotion. 

[cheesevillain]

I think is should be labeled as utility/survivability not as offensive like the Roll

 

 

The roll isn't an offensive ability, it's an escape-from-engagement ability. It's upgrade lets you attack while escaping, but only with ranged weapons. The Roots ability is also designed to help you avoid combat. It can be used by a melee character to position the battlefield, but its not the most natural use of the ability.

 

If marked prey is a "support ability", then the Barbarians frenzy is also "support ability". Their only purpose is to shred enemies into bloody chunks, so I'll continue to label them as 

offensive abilities.

 

 

Huh? Marked Prey is an offensive abilities and has nothing to do with the pet. I also consider Binding Roots an offensive ability, even if it "roots" things.

 

 

Marked prey gives an offensive bonus to both Ranger and Pet. Some people are so focussed on the petless Ranger that they consider it to be a pet ability.

[jarvs]

Ya you`re right I was very tired when I made that post, Its a pretty large damage increase so it an offensive ability. The main point is that Rangers in general need more to them and make sure they can use it with melee. They need to make them more interesting and to make sure the sub-classes make sense, we have the Sharp Shooter who focused on the ranged weapons while Ghost Heart which in my opinion should be the sub-class that focuses on the pet then the stalker at the moment is really nothing. 

[mostundesired]

 

To be fair i think the Ghost Heart was meant to be the 'pick no animal companion' abilities because there was a segment of players in POE1 that wanted to be ranger without animal. All other versions i think were meant to pick some level of animals abilities and is why ghost hear is my least favorite.

If that were the case people are going to be disappointed because they still need to deal with a pet which has to be summoned or they face the penalty. 

 

I'm pretty late to the party, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I haven't gotten very far, and I've just been testing abilities on civilians, so I might be wrong, but according to both the description of the subclass and my own testing, there's no penalty for not summoning your pet.

[fiddlesticks]

If they add new Ranger talents, I actually hope they focus even more strongly on the pet. That's his main appeal, after all. Lots of classes have melee capabilities, but only the Ranger has such a strong synergy with another party member.

[cheesevillain]

If they add new Ranger talents, I actually hope they focus even more strongly on the pet. That's his main appeal, after all. Lots of classes have melee capabilities, but only the Ranger has such a strong synergy with another party member.

 

 

Ok, let's be fair. They have five different pets, and a LOT of stuff that let's you customize the pet. There are talents, there is a pet specific melee ability, and there are Ranger abilities like Heal Pet & the Wounded-Shot/Predator's-Sense Combo. You can make the pet a tank. You can make the pet a do DPS. You can keep the pet as a regular party member, or make the pet a more powerful temporary summon critter. The pet has received some serious love.

 

The current problem is I can customize my Ranger's Bear more than I can customize my Ranger himself. The Bear almost seems more valuable than the Ranger.

 

It's kind of like, if in PoE1,

 

Me: Do I really want Sagani in my party?

Eder: Her fox is so fluffy! Of course we need her in the party!

Me: But if we have the fox, we need to include Sagani. I'm not sure I want to make that sacrifice.

Eder: Don't ruin this for me, man! I NEEED TO HAVE THAT FOX!!!

[morhilane]

Marked Prey is a support ability. It gives you a dmg bonus against a target, so it can be considered offensive in a sense, but when I think of offensive abilities I think of abilities that damage opponents. Giving me a bonus against an opponent, even a damage bonus, is a buff--which in my mind get's filed in "support".

 

Root abilities are all defensive to me, probably because I pretty much exclusively use them defensively.

 

Using your criteria, the ranger has only a single offensive ability: Wounded shot.

 

Melee not having any shouldn't have people act as if ranged weapons had 10 and them 0.

[Katarack21]

 

Marked Prey is a support ability. It gives you a dmg bonus against a target, so it can be considered offensive in a sense, but when I think of offensive abilities I think of abilities that damage opponents. Giving me a bonus against an opponent, even a damage bonus, is a buff--which in my mind get's filed in "support".

 

Root abilities are all defensive to me, probably because I pretty much exclusively use them defensively.

 

Using your criteria, the ranger has only a single offensive ability: Wounded shot.

 

Melee not having any shouldn't have people act as if ranged weapons had 10 and them 0.

 

Yes. It's the reason I don't play a ranger; you get to shoot your Wounded Shot, set your pet to attack, and then auto attack and do not much. It's boring.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Katarack21

[DigitalCrack]

 

Marked Prey is a support ability. It gives you a dmg bonus against a target, so it can be considered offensive in a sense, but when I think of offensive abilities I think of abilities that damage opponents. Giving me a bonus against an opponent, even a damage bonus, is a buff--which in my mind get's filed in "support".

 

Root abilities are all defensive to me, probably because I pretty much exclusively use them defensively.

 

Using your criteria, the ranger has only a single offensive ability: Wounded shot.

 

Melee not having any shouldn't have people act as if ranged weapons had 10 and them 0.

 

This is the exact reason rangers need more abilities for themselves.  Pet has enough of them yet the ranger only has one direct offensive ability ( also marked prey technically but its more of a debuff imo) in 5 power levels and its ranged only?  I don't think he needs a bunch but 2-3 to pick from by power level 5 isn't ridiculous.  Plenty of classes that already have that many by power level 3.  I dunno Obsidian will do what they do but the ranger is not in a good place..

Edited November 18, 2017 by DigitalCrack

[Archaven]

Sorry don't have the beta. I personally like the idea of a Ranger/Chanter. I like a fast sniping ranger and also shouting chants. But it wouldn't work as most chants needs to be in melee. If anyone try out a Ranger/Chanter and could give a brief overview of how it plays, that be great.

[morhilane]

 

 

Marked Prey is a support ability. It gives you a dmg bonus against a target, so it can be considered offensive in a sense, but when I think of offensive abilities I think of abilities that damage opponents. Giving me a bonus against an opponent, even a damage bonus, is a buff--which in my mind get's filed in "support".

 

Root abilities are all defensive to me, probably because I pretty much exclusively use them defensively.

 

Using your criteria, the ranger has only a single offensive ability: Wounded shot.

 

Melee not having any shouldn't have people act as if ranged weapons had 10 and them 0.

 

This is the exact reason rangers need more abilities for themselves.  Pet has enough of them yet the ranger only has one direct offensive ability ( also marked prey technically but its more of a debuff imo) in 5 power levels and its ranged only?  I don't think he needs a bunch but 2-3 to pick from by power level 5 isn't ridiculous.  Plenty of classes that already have that many by power level 3.  I dunno Obsidian will do what they do but the ranger is not in a good place..

 

 

I don't think we have the same definition of plenty. Ignoring the casters, because the Ranger is not a caster and using the "ranger fans" description of an offensive ability.

 

Barbarian has only Barbaric Blow.

Fighter has Knockdown and Into the Fray, but technically these aren't offensive, one is meant to prone and the other to pull. They just happen to use normal attacks to apply the effect.

Paladin has Flame of Devotion.

Rogue has 5, but 4 of them are debuff that use normal attacks to apply their effects.

Monk has Torment Reach with Force of Anguish and Stunning Blow using normal weapon attacks to apply their effects of push and stun.

 

Ranger has Wounding Shot, Evasive Fire and the pet Takedown ability (use normal attack to apply its effect). Don't act as if the pet doesn't exist, you lost that battle in POE1 beta.

 

Oh and by the way, you can have more actives in POE2 at the level range we are than in POE1...

Edited November 18, 2017 by morhilane