Dual Endurance Drain weapon Rogue?

[Lampros]

 

 

Ogres + mind control = dead ogres.

 

Their will saves are bad.

But my problem is I stack too many buffs, so that will just buff the Ogres I don't know when Arcane Dampener is available, and I don't know how well it works in practice, since I've never even taken the spell. But I guess it's one of those spells that is not necessary at lower levels, but is vital

In fact, only several fights in On Nua is not avoidable. Wait until lvl 9, take Kana with Dragon Trashed chant - it help you win most encounters very easy, even without sneaking. Most tough fight will be vithracks (one encounter) and 3 swan gulas (also one encounter).

I never go anywhere without a Paladin, a Chanter, a Priest, and a Wizard (only the remaining 2 spots are up for grabs). So I will have Dragon Thrashed ready. But 1 Dragon Thrashed isn't THAT powerful in my experience

 

 

in PotD.

????

 

High Mig and Int leads to awesome damage with Dragons Thrashed. Pump your stats. Use consumables before the battle, make sure equipment is boosting those two stats, use the Priest ability that adds +2 to your stats, etc... boost Mig and Int!

 

 

I think I said what I said above for two reasons:

 

1. I am used to using 2 Chanters, so when I used 1 this time, the drop-off was painful. Of course, I should have known this via simple arithmetic, but sometimes experiencing it is far more jarring than theory-crafting!

 

2. I mix Dragon Thrashed with other utility songs. So I probably get less out of 1 Chanter - in terms of pure Dragon Thrashed damage - than others who only sing Dragon Thrashed.

[Phenomenum]

Of course you do - the main trick of Dragon Trashed chant is additive damage from two simultaneously chants. Fully buffed chanter can deal up to 64 dmg points every 3 seconds on hit - it's like cheating.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Phenomenum

[Lampros]

Of course you do - the main trick of Dragon Trashed chant is additive damage from two simultaneously chants. Fully buffed chanter can deal up to 180 dmg points every 3 seconds - it's like cheating.

 

Hmm, so you'd suggest that I spam Dragon Thrashed only on my Chanter and not mix utility Phrases? But I am so terrified of those attacks that target Will, so I always add those Phrases as well - in addition to taking Bull's Will on everyone (and a whole lot of other preventive measures...).

[Phenomenum]

Sorry, i make a "little" mistake about damage)

Look at the full calculation:

Base damage of single DT is 10 slash + 10 burn = 20 every 3 sec.

High Might chanter + Priest 5th level spell Champions Boon (+10 Might, +10 Perception) = you will have at least 30 Might (+60% damage) and 20 Perception.
20 + 60% = 32 dmg.
Two simultaneously chants: 32*2 = 64 dmg points every 3 sec. ON HIT. Becose high Perception + other buffs you will often Crit (another +50% dmg).

Sounds like "Press X to win" button to me

 

 

 

 

 

About will attacks- take Priest and forget about it. Becose i agree - dominated DT chanter is the worst thing may ever happen

 

About Might... 20 base + 3 Resting bonus + 4 from Abydon Hammer +10 from Champions boon = 37 and +81% to base damage ( all and all 72.4 per 3 sec. from two chants)

Edited October 12, 2017 by Phenomenum

[Kaylon]

Sorry, i make a "little" mistake about damage)

Look at the full calculation:

Base damage of single DT is 10 slash + 10 burn = 20 every 3 sec.

High Might chanter + Priest 5th level spell Champions Boon (+10 Might, +10 Perception) = you will have at least 30 Might (+60% damage) and 20 Perception.

20 + 60% = 32 dmg.

Two simultaneously chants: 32*2 = 64 dmg points every 3 sec. ON HIT. Becose high Perception + other buffs you will often Crit (another +50% dmg).

 

Sounds like "Press X to win" button to me

 

 

 

 

 

About will attacks- take Priest and forget about it. Becose i agree - dominated DT chanter is the worst thing may ever happen

 

About Might... 20 base + 3 Resting bonus + 4 from Abydon Hammer +10 from Champions boon = 37 and +81% to base damage ( all and all 72.4 per 3 sec. from two chants)

Criticals extend dot's duration by 50%, they don't increase the damage. Also with 30int and maxed Brisk Recitation it's possible to completely overlap 3 chants, dealing dps comparable to a 2w barbarian with carnage...

[Phenomenum]

Carnage have much smaller AoE...

About DT crits - you're right, my mistake(

[Boeroer]

Extending the duration by 50% is even better then just adding +50% base damage.

 

Dragon Thrashed overlap with a more conservative stat spread (25 INT) at lvl 16:

 

With 30 INT they would overlap completely, stacking 3 instances all the time. Crits would allow for 4 instances to overlap (for some time). Remember that one handed weapon usage also works with Dragon Thrashed, giving it +12 ACC (one handed style's crit conversion doesn't apply).

 

As I already showed in another thread the AoE of Dragon Thrashed is a lot bigger than most other AoE attacks. Here Dragon Thrashed compared to carnage (both with 25 INT, barb is standing lower right with the spear, targeting the chanter, the reddish circles is carnage base and extended AoE, the yellows are Dragon Thrashed - or any phrase basically):

But of course one has to remember that carnage originates from an enemy and Dragon Thrashed from the chanter. 
 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

50% duration for a chant isn't as good as for the normal dots because it affects only the lingering phase. For dragon trashed that means only 2 more seconds which is only 17% increase over the initial duration...

[Phenomenum]

50% duration for a chant isn't as good as for the normal dots because it affects only the lingering phase. For dragon trashed that means only 2 more seconds which is only 17% increase over the initial duration...

Whu only 2? Look at my erlier screenshot - 5.6 duration + 5.6 linger. It means 11.2 sec. on Hit and 14 on Crit. And this is with Int 19 or 20 (i forgot exact number).

[Phenomenum]

About AoE radius: i always buy and use those amulet from Dirford (Voice of something something) becose it increase BASE AoE radius by 10% - with high Int it appears in another +1m (like several Int points).

[Boeroer]

50% duration for a chant isn't as good as for the normal dots because it affects only the lingering phase. For dragon trashed that means only 2 more seconds which is only 17% increase over the initial duration...

You are right. I forgot that those chants work differently. 

[Boeroer]

 

50% duration for a chant isn't as good as for the normal dots because it affects only the lingering phase. For dragon trashed that means only 2 more seconds which is only 17% increase over the initial duration...

Whu only 2? Look at my erlier screenshot - 5.6 duration + 5.6 linger. It means 11.2 sec. on Hit and 14 on Crit. And this is with Int 19 or 20 (i forgot exact number).

 

Because it has 4 seconds linger time as a base. And 4 * 0.5 = 2 secs.

[Boeroer]

About AoE radius: i always buy and use those amulet from Dirford (Voice of something something) becose it increase BASE AoE radius by 10% - with high Int it appears in another +1m (like several Int points).

No it does not influence the base. It increases the radius of the chant AoE by 20% as +4 INT would do. It stacks with overseeing which das the same thing but only +10% (like +2 INT). But the chants' base radius of 4 meters is never altered.

 

As a comparison: Sacred Immolation has a base radius of 3 meters and Carnage has 1.5 meters.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

No. You're wrong this time. Crit affects only linger duration, it's true, but counting not from base - from actual linger duration (thanks Obsidian one more time for glass-clear mechanics)
Look at screenshot (15th level chanter, 20 INT, Brisk Resitation: 40%).

 

 

 

[Lampros]

Extending the duration by 50% is even better then just adding +50% base damage.

 

Dragon Thrashed overlap with a more conservative stat spread (25 INT) at lvl 16:

 

With 30 INT they would overlap completely, stacking 3 instances all the time. Crits would allow for 4 instances to overlap (for some time). Remember that one handed weapon usage also works with Dragon Thrashed, giving it +12 ACC (one handed style's crit conversion doesn't apply).

 

As I already showed in another thread the AoE of Dragon Thrashed is a lot bigger than most other AoE attacks. Here Dragon Thrashed compared to carnage (both with 25 INT, barb is standing lower right with the spear, targeting the chanter, the reddish circles is carnage base and extended AoE, the yellows are Dragon Thrashed - or any phrase basically):

But of course one has to remember that carnage originates from an enemy and Dragon Thrashed from the chanter. 

 

 

Wait, how can one realistically achieve 30 Intelligence - at least on a regular basis? Even 25 requires, I assume, the Caed Nua Intelligence buff, and is that really a good opportunity cost? Come to think of it, which Caed Nua buff do folks most often use for difficult fights? I tended to use Resolve at the start and then switch to Dexterity when I get my Scrolling set-up in place.

 

Also, can DoTs like Dragon Thrashed and Sacred Immolation crit? I thought either they could not - or their frequency is much lower, because my Chanter and Paladin crit rates nose-dive once I get their signature class AoEs.

[Phenomenum]

 

About AoE radius: i always buy and use those amulet from Dirford (Voice of something something) becose it increase BASE AoE radius by 10% - with high Int it appears in another +1m (like several Int points).

No it does not influence the base. It increases the radius of the chant AoE by 20% as +4 INT would do. It stacks with overseeing which das the same thing but only +10% (like +2 INT). But the chants' base radius of 4 meters is never altered.

 

As a comparison: Sacred Immolation has a base radius of 3 meters and Carnage has 1.5 meters.

 

No. I have tested it a lot. It's not true in case of Chanter's amulet and Boots of Leader for paladin. This two items increases base value by 10% and then this value affected by int. (BASE*1.1) + % Int modifier. And Overseening do the same thing.

Take a calculator and test it yourself if you don't believe me.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

Cool, didn't notice that it uses the linger base duration +INT bonus as a base for the crit bonus.

[Boeroer]

No. I have tested it a lot. It's not true in case of Chanter's amulet and Boots of Leader for paladin. This two items increasing base value by 10% and then this value affected by int. (BASE*1.1) + Int modifier in persent. That's how this work.

Test it yourself if you don't believe me.

Then why is the inner circle of the chanter's AoE indicator (=base radius) not changing while the outer cirlce widens by 20%?

 

 

It says 20% in the description, too (not that this is proof or something).

 

I just tested it 30 seconds ago to be sure. The inner circle doesn't move. How did you test it? By adding/substracting INT while wearing it? Maybe the indicator doesn't adapt to a change of base radius.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Wait, how can one realistically achieve 30 Intelligence - at least on a regular basis? Even 25 requires, I assume, the Caed Nua Intelligence buff, and is that really a good opportunity cost? Come to think of it, which Caed Nua buff do folks most often use for difficult fights? I tended to use Resolve at the start and then switch to Dexterity when I get my Scrolling set-up in place.

 

Also, can DoTs like Dragon Thrashed and Sacred Immolation crit? I thought either they could not - or their frequency is much lower, because my Chanter and Paladin crit rates nose-dive once I get their signature class AoEs.

Sacred Immolation is not a DoT. Both can crit, yes. The picture above was with 25 INT. It's obtainable quite easily via maxed INT + items + food or with Crowns of the Faithful or other stuff. Edited October 12, 2017 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

 

Wait, how can one realistically achieve 30 Intelligence - at least on a regular basis? Even 25 requires, I assume, the Caed Nua Intelligence buff, and is that really a good opportunity cost? Come to think of it, which Caed Nua buff do folks most often use for difficult fights? I tended to use Resolve at the start and then switch to Dexterity when I get my Scrolling set-up in place.

 

Also, can DoTs like Dragon Thrashed and Sacred Immolation crit? I thought either they could not - or their frequency is much lower, because my Chanter and Paladin crit rates nose-dive once I get their signature class AoEs.

Sacred Immolation is not a DoT. Both can crit, yes. The picture above was with 25 INT. It's obtainable quite easily via maxed INT + items + food or with Crowns of the Faithful or other stuff.

 

 

Hmm, in that case, do they have lower crit rate than normal weapon attacks?

 

And I forgot about Crowns of the Faithful. Yes, with +6 from that, you can achieve 25 Intellect easily indeed!

[Boeroer]

Sacred Immolation get +50% damage as usual on every pulse and Dragon Thrashed gets extended linger time. Other DoTs get +50% duration.

[Boeroer]

I now did another test and raised INT from 10 to 30 while wearing VotMt and while not. And it really seems that the bonus of VotMt gets taken into account (as if it were added to the base radius) when the game adds the INT bonus. Because if you have 30 INT the radius from VotMt is nearly double as if you had 10 INT. So, yeah, touché. It's not simply adding 20% to the radius as +4 INT would do.

 

It doesn't change the base indicator but while calculating INT bonus the bonus of VotMt doesn't get added but multiplied. So basically (base+VotMt) * INT-bonus instead of (base) * INT bonus + VotMt.

 

Also, the addition to base doesn't seem to be 20% but 10% like you said. Thanks Obsidian for the totally screwd up description.

It does add around 20% if your INT is high - so maybe that's why I never noticed those shiftings. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

 

No. I have tested it a lot. It's not true in case of Chanter's amulet and Boots of Leader for paladin. This two items increasing base value by 10% and then this value affected by int. (BASE*1.1) + Int modifier in persent. That's how this work.

Test it yourself if you don't believe me.

Then why is the inner circle of the chanter's AoE indicator (=base radius) not changing while the outer cirlce widens by 20%?

 

 

It says 20% in the description, too (not that this is proof or something).

 

I just tested it 30 seconds ago to be sure. The inner circle doesn't move. How did you test it? By adding/substracting INT while wearing it? Maybe the indicator doesn't adapt to a change of base radius.

 

I'm testing it right now and don't understand.

Ring of Overseer (+10% to AoE) with chanter having 20 INT (+60% to AoE):

Chanter with 20 int have 4*1.6 = 6.4 radius. Ok. Then i equiped Ring and radius of Beloved Spirits became 6.71 meters. I have no idea how this value appear!

(4*1.1) * 1.6 = 7.04. Wrong.

(4*1.6) + 10% = 7.04. Wrong.

(4*1.7) = 6.8. Wrong.

 

What the...trick?!

Edited October 12, 2017 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

I now did another test and raised INT from 10 to 30 while wearing VotMt and while not. And it really seems that the bonus of VotMt gets taken into account (as if it were added to the base radius) when the game adds the INT bonus. Because if you have 30 INT the radius from VotMt is nearly double as if you had 10 INT. So, yeah, touché. It's not simply adding 20% to the radius as +4 INT would do.

 

It doesn't change the base indicator but while calculating INT bonus the bonus of VotMt doesn't get added but multiplied. So basically (base+VotMt) * INT-bonus instead of (base) * INT bonus + VotMt.

 

Also, the addition to base doesn't seem to be 20% but 10% like you said. Thanks Obsidian for the totally screwd up description.

It does add around 20% if your INT is high - so maybe that's why I never noticed those shiftings. 

Becose of changing base value - the more Int you have, the greater bonus you'll receive.

[Boeroer]

Yes, sure. But why doesn't the game change the base AoE indicator and OBS not the description?