How do I deal with Spore Confusion/Domination spam?

[Lampros]

 

Ah, ok. We shall see - only level 11 now. 2 more levels to go!

 

You'll enjoy it, it's a brilliant ability.

 

 

Almost there!

 

Needs high MIG and INT. And Scion of Flame is also not bad.

 

My Paladin has both - started out on 18 on both stats.

 

 

 

 

A paladin with Hermit's Hat and Righteous Soul is basically immune to all mind control effects. You have also a few items with Defiance/Loyal enchantments which can be further comboed with the Snowcap drug...

 

That's way too many talent points to deal with this problem though. I already have Aegis of Loyalty, will get Sacred Immolation, and then Righteous Soul on top of that? I want him to do some DPS, too!

 

I don't know what abilities your paladin has, but Righteous Soul is one of the best he has... 

 

 

So far at level 12:

 

Strange Mercy, Two Weapon Style, Critical Focus, Weapon Focus (Ruffian), Apprentice's Sneak Attack, Scion of Flame.

 

Edit: Also Aegis of Loyalty, Lay on Hands, Liberation Exhortation. Flames of Devotion, Sworn Enemy.

 

I think that's all.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Lampros

[Lampros]

 

 

A paladin with Hermit's Hat and Righteous Soul is basically immune to all mind control effects. You have also a few items with Defiance/Loyal enchantments which can be further comboed with the Snowcap drug...

 

That's way too many talent points to deal with this problem though. I already have Aegis of Loyalty, will get Sacred Immolation, and then Righteous Soul on top of that? I want him to do some DPS, too!

 

All I have done since this game came out is MC a Paladin (I get to play as the entire party anyway and its my fav class lol) and I am telling you that a Paladin is not very good "DPS" Until he/she gets Sacred Immolation.  Before that what they can do is Alpha Strike (and tank of course) and you only need TWO abilities for that.  Flames of Devotion and Sworn Enemy.

 

Righteous Soul is not only a defensive talent against mind control effects it also increases your defense against FEAR AND TERROR which are one of the most debilitating effects for the offense of every character.  A consistently feared or terrorized character will not hit a damn thing.  Especially on PoTD against bosses who have sky high defense.  So not only is Righteous Soul great against charms it is also significantly helps your offense by making fear and terror effects either miss or effect you for a very short duration. As a Paladin you will at MOST get hit by a fear never crit and if you do get hit it will turn into a graze thanks to Righteous Soul or a graze will basically be a miss. 

 

Its not just a defensive talent.  That being said if you get a certain soul bound late game sword it makes you immune to fear and terror but its a 1hander if you want to alpha you will have to switch to a bigger hitting weapon and you will be susceptible to fear and terror.

 

PS I realize you can use a priest spell or scrolls to be immune.  I have logged too many hours in this game and I am telling you that redundancy in defenses isn't a bad thing.  Your priest will not ALWAYS be able to cast what you need because he could be in a bad spot and CCed or you rather have him casting offensive ACC spells and practically being immune to fear and terror is great.  Lastly its an AEO in a dragon fight where the priest is VERY far away from your tanks because you do not want him next to a dragon he will out of range.

 

 

I know that Paladins cannot match the true melee powerhouses in terms of DPS. But that is not my intention. Most of my DPS is provided by the double Chanter set-up spamming Dragon Thrashed and Seven Nights. Instead, the purpose of the "DPS" Paladin is two-fold for me: First, he kills enough to activate on-kill heals. Second, he provides part of the necessary DPS in the early and mid-levels, before the double Chanter locomotive gets going. So I guess my terminology was not clear.

[Lampros]

Also, what do you guys think of having 1 Chanter just do They Shielded Their Eyes 'Gainst the Fampyr's Gaze against Charm or Confuse mobs?

[Torm51]

I see still Righteous Soul is a great offensive tool as well.

[Torm51]

And ya you could take the chanter phrase to help but with SI and Aegis of Loyalty is enough.

[Lampros]

And ya you could take the chanter phrase to help but with SI and Aegis of Loyalty is enough.

 

Sacred Immolation is ridiculous. The Paladin is out-DPS-ing the Chanters from level 13 onward. But probably now too far back to catch up.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Lampros

[Torm51]

Welcome the glory my friend

[JerekKruger]

Sacred Immolation is ridiculous. The Paladin is out-DPS-ing the Chanters from level 13 onward. But probably now too far back to catch up.

 

Told you it was great 

[Boeroer]

If you have two paladins with SI they will both heal each other's raw damage they receive from SI - because SI also heals allies but hurts yourself a bit.

[MaxQuest]

Sacred Immolation is ridiculous. The Paladin is out-DPS-ing the Chanters from level 13 onward. But probably now too far back to catch up.

Hmm. That's strange...

 

Dragon Trashed (base): 10 burn + 10 slash damage vs reflex, every 3s vs 1/4 of respective DR | base duration 8s + 4s linger

Sacred Immolation (base): 20-30 burn damage vs reflex, every 3s vs full burn DR | base duration: 30s

 

Brisk Recitation reduces base duration by:

4 - 10%

7 - 20%

10 - 30%

13 - 40%

16 - 50%

So at level 13 it would be 4.8s base duration + 4s linger (at 10 INT) or 4.8s base duration + 6s linger (at 20 INT)

 

At 20 MIG and 20 INT it would be:

- Dragon Trashed: 13 burn + 13 slash every 3s; but since it stacks with itself, just consider that each 4.8s there is applied a DoT that has 10.8s duration and ticks for: 2 * (13 - DR/4) (on 0s, 3s, 6s, 9s) and 2 * (7.8 - DR/4) (on 10.8s mark).

- Sacred Immolation: 26-39 damage vs full DR, every 3s for 45s

 

So, during 45s, vs 0 DR targets (assuming there are no grazes/crits, just hits):

- Sacred Immolation will deal: (26+39)/2 * (45/3+1) = 520 burn damage to each enemy

- Sacred Immolation (with Scion of Flame) will deal: (30+45)/2 * (45/3 + 1) = 600 burn damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed during 45s will get applied 9 times: 7 times (it will have time to tick fully for 10.8s) and 2 times it will be still in effect (and will manage to tick for 6.6s and 1.8s respectively). Even if we omit choped ticks and count only full ones, it will steal deal: (7 * 4 + 2) * 2 * 13 = 390 burn + 390 slash damage to each enemy

 

During 45s, vs 10 DR targets, on average that would be:

- Sacred Immolation: [(26+39)/2 - 10] * (45/3 + 1) = 360 burn damage to each enemy

- Sacred Immolation (with Scion of Flame): [(30+45)/2 - 10] * (45/3 + 1) = 440 burn damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed: 30 full ticks * 2 * (13 - 10/4) = 315 burn + 315 slash damage to each enemy

 

During 45s, vs 20 DR targets, on average that would be:

- Sacred Immolation: [(26+39)/2 - 20] * (45/3 + 1) = 200 burn damage to each enemy

- Sacred Immolation (with Scion of Flame): [(30+45)/2 - 20] * (45/3 + 1) = 280 burn damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed: 30 full ticks * 2 * (13 - 20/4) = 240 burn + 240 slash damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed (with Scion of Flame and UPMod): 30 full ticks * (15 - 20/4 + 13 - 20/4) = 300 burn + 240 slash damage to each enemy

 

It's a bit raw estimation, because we:

- do not consider grazes and crits

- assume that slash DR is same as burn DR

 

TL.DR. Generally Dragon Trashed chant should deal more damage than Sacred Immolation in fights that last for 20s+, simply because it stacks with itself.

Edited September 8, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

Normally Dragon Thrashed should deal more damage. Also remember that its AoE is bigger so it should reach more enemies. In addition to that, it's also possible to expand it's AoE further with the Voice of the Mountaintop which only works for chants (+20%). AND you could also add +12 aCC if you wished via one handed weapon use.

 

But I never actually checked: does a chant also get +1 ACC per char level like Sacred Immolation does?

 

And does a chant profit from Merciless Hand and stuff like SI does?

Edited September 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

But I never actually checked: does a chant also get +1 ACC per char level like Sacred Immolation does?

It should.

 

And does a chant profit from Merciless Hand and stuff like SI does?

DoTs do not benefit from Merciless Hand.

On the other hand generally DoTs do benefit from crits more than usual attacks do, because crits increase their total damage by x1.5 (i.e. is applied multiplicatively and is not diluted by other damage coefficients). For chants I am not sure though. A crit at 20 INT / lvl 13 might have (4.8 + 6 * 1.5) or (4.8 + 6) * 1.5 duration.

Edited September 8, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Lampros]

If you have two paladins with SI they will both heal each other's raw damage they receive from SI - because SI also heals allies but hurts yourself a bit.

 

Ah, I didn't think about it! Multiple Chanters and Paladins have extraordinary synergies indeed!

 

 

 

Sacred Immolation is ridiculous. The Paladin is out-DPS-ing the Chanters from level 13 onward. But probably now too far back to catch up.

Hmm. That's strange...

 

Dragon Trashed (base): 10 burn + 10 slash damage vs reflex, every 3s vs 1/4 of respective DR | base duration 8s + 4s linger

Sacred Immolation (base): 20-30 burn damage vs reflex, every 3s vs full burn DR | base duration: 30s

 

Brisk Recitation reduces base duration by:

4 - 10%

7 - 20%

10 - 30%

13 - 40%

16 - 50%

So at level 13 it would be 4.8s base duration + 4s linger (at 10 INT) or 4.8s base duration + 6s linger (at 20 INT)

 

At 20 MIG and 20 INT it would be:

- Dragon Trashed: 13 burn + 13 slash every 3s; but since it stacks with itself, just consider that each 4.8s there is applied a DoT that has 10.8s duration and ticks for: 2 * (13 - DR/4) (on 0s, 3s, 6s, 9s) and 2 * (7.8 - DR/4) (on 10.8s mark).

- Sacred Immolation: 26-39 damage vs full DR, every 3s for 45s

 

So, during 45s, vs 0 DR targets (assuming there are no grazes/crits, just hits):

- Sacred Immolation will deal: (26+39)/2 * (45/3+1) = 520 burn damage to each enemy

- Sacred Immolation (with Scion of Flame) will deal: (30+45)/2 * (45/3 + 1) = 600 burn damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed during 45s will get applied 9 times: 7 times (it will have time to tick fully for 10.8s) and 2 times it will be still in effect (and will manage to tick for 6.6s and 1.8s respectively). Even if we omit choped ticks and count only full ones, it will steal deal: (7 * 4 + 2) * 2 * 13 = 390 burn + 390 slash damage to each enemy

 

During 45s, vs 10 DR targets, on average that would be:

- Sacred Immolation: [(26+39)/2 - 10] * (45/3 + 1) = 360 burn damage to each enemy

- Sacred Immolation (with Scion of Flame): [(30+45)/2 - 10] * (45/3 + 1) = 440 burn damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed: 30 full ticks * 2 * (13 - 10/4) = 315 burn + 315 slash damage to each enemy

 

During 45s, vs 20 DR targets, on average that would be:

- Sacred Immolation: [(26+39)/2 - 20] * (45/3 + 1) = 200 burn damage to each enemy

- Sacred Immolation (with Scion of Flame): [(30+45)/2 - 20] * (45/3 + 1) = 280 burn damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed: 30 full ticks * 2 * (13 - 20/4) = 240 burn + 240 slash damage to each enemy

- Dragon Trashed (with Scion of Flame and UPMod): 30 full ticks * (15 - 20/4 + 13 - 20/4) = 300 burn + 240 slash damage to each enemy

 

It's a bit raw estimation, because we:

- do not consider grazes and crits

- assume that slash DR is same as burn DR

 

TL.DR. Generally Dragon Trashed chant should deal more damage than Sacred Immolation in fights that last for 20s+, simply because it stacks with itself.

 

 

It's admittedly a small sample. About 5-6 fights? Still, that's not nothing. But I've decided to take damage snapshots at level 9, level 13, and end of the game to get a complete picture. I will post my findings when I am done. We will then get a fuller sense.

 

Edit: Also keep in mind that the Paladin has superior weapon damage set-up in my case: dual wielding 2 high damage weapon - whereas one Chanter is a pikeman, and the other is 1H/shield.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Lampros