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Need help building a Chanter tank!


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#1
Jeddite

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Hey guys, been lurking around here for quite some time. So many great ideas and minds, it inspired me to create a chanter tank build. The thing is, I am completely new to the game (I have already 9 hours clocked and I still haven't made it through the first act, that's how am I indecisive) and even though I understand a few mechanics, building a character seems hard when I don't know of all the skills/talents/chants that you get throughout the whole game. A good start would be a recommendation how should I build it in terms of chants and the stats - I was thinking of that:

 

MIG: max
CON: 11ish
DEX: 04
PER: not sure here
INT: max
RES: 18?
 
Not sure if I should do the thing with CON being that low since he is tank, but Might will certainly help, right? Also I heard high Dex was recommended but for some reason I don't think it's gonna be as good so I left it out. Any thoughts, recommendations? My tank would be mainly heavy armored, damage dealer who is focused on debuffing enemies. Any help will be appreciated!


#2
Boeroer

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If you concentrate on damage dealing via chanting (Come Sweet Winds of Death, later Dragon Thrashed) you can dump DEX completely and wear the thickest armor.

If you want to use Invocations a lot (like debuffing with Killers froze stiff) you need low recovery which means light armor and high DEX in order to have a decent frequency. That's because using invocations will trigger a recovery phase which is influenced by both DEX and armor penalty.

The first approach is better for tankish chanters. Because it combines awesome AoE damage with good sturdiness.

High MIG and INT are mandatory for max damage via chants because both leads to higher damage numbers. INT also increases the area of effect a lot. You'll also need decent PER because that influences your accuracy of your attack rolls.

With a shield and thick armor you can do without high RES, 10 would be enough.
Put the rest onto PER and then CON.

Chanters are not the kings of debuffing. That's because when you're in dire need of a crowd control effect the chanter usually hasn't build up enough phrases yet. And most debuffing effects are a bit weak.

On the other hand they have good AoE healing (regeneration) which works great with the above stats and makes the whole party sturdier and The Dragon Thrashed is one of the best abilities in the game. It stacks with itself by the way. You don't need to mix in something else once you have it.

Edited by Boeroer, 10 August 2017 - 09:32 AM.

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#3
Jeddite

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Okay thank you, that cleared some stuff up. I think I am going with the first instance you went with, that is the one with high Might and low Dex. I went with, according to your instructions:

Might: 20
Constitution: 14

Dexterity: 3

Perception: 13

Intelligence: 18

Resolve: 10

 

Race is Human, The Living Lands bonus. Explorer, got chants: Blessed Was Wengridh and Come Sweet Winds..., for invocation I went with Thunder Rolled. Is that alright to start the game or should I tweak it more?



#4
MaxQuest

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Partially related to the topic:

In my current playthrough I have decided to give a 18/18/04/06/20/12 moon godlike a try. With lots of passive healing + healing modifiers + Wounding Binding and plate + shield - he just doesn't die. Boeroer explains this in his Chillfog build. Also, with that high Con, chanter was never the main reason to make a forced rest, despite of being the main door/body blocker in the party.

Although quite often I was thinking about trying a 2/18/8/18/20/12 wild orlan or pale elf instead.
Atm my godlike chanter is level 8, and I've made a few notes for myself:
- Winds of Death turned out to be weaker than I expected (even with maxed MIG, INT and enemies with debuffed reflex), this chanter had dealt x6 less damage than my barbarian by lvl 6; and x10 less damage by lvl 8.
- White Worms - require extra setup; which sometimes is clunky.
- Silver Tide - although super great on levels 1-5, became partially superseeded by Shod-in-Faith boots.
- I was using mostly The Thunder Rolled, Killers Froze Stiff and The Lover Cried invocations (and these last two don't benefit from might).

I will monitor how things will change once he gets to level 9.

P.S. @Jeddite just so you know: bonus damage from Fighting Spirit does not affect DoTs.

Edited by MaxQuest, 10 August 2017 - 07:22 AM.


#5
scythesong

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A tanky chanter will do just fine with a more balanced stat distribution, especially since you're new. I wouldn't min-max just yet until you're sure about what you want to accomplish or unless you want to solo.

Go with 16-18 Might/Int, 10 Res and 10-16 Dex/Per/Con and see how that works out for you. Chanters start with above average deflection/accuracy, so you'll be OK as long as you pick a good shield and get defensive talents like Weapon and Shield Style and Cautious Attack for when you're being mobbed in early game. Note that the game allows you to respec your character, including your stats/talents, for a small fee. You should take low-mid leveling as your opportunity to familiarize yourself with what your stats do and how they affect your playstyle.

Chanters are more of a jack-of-all-trades class as far as their general skillset goes, which is why you need to customize them to fit a particular role by choosing the right talents and gear. Once you get the "The Dragon Thrashed, The Dragon Wailed" (well into mid-game), for example, and decide that you don't want your chanter to do much of anything else you can start min-maxing your stats and focus on making a sort of "walking hazard zone" tanky character.

Edit:
-I was never a big fan of "Come, Come Soft Winds of Death" unless as a filler and never understood why people min-maxed their Chanters early on just for that phrase. I preferred"Blessed Was Wengridh, Quickest of His Tribe", which allowed me to kite stuff.
-White Worms works best if the chanter is using a ranged weapon (the targeting cone prevents you from casting the skill at a distant corpse when using a melee weapon).
-Invocations don't benefit from a lot of +accuracy, which makes perception and +accuracy stuff even more important at early-mid game. It starts to become less important as everyone gains access to massive +accuracy buffs/defense debuffs by late game.

Edited by scythesong, 10 August 2017 - 08:43 AM.


#6
Jeddite

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@scythesong

should I go with a race and that I feel most drawn to? This is for the min-max thingy, I really want to try out this game and I have already tried out all the classes and I am drawn towards Chanter the most. Gonna try out your tips, thanks!



#7
Boeroer

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@MaxQuest: last time I checked (long ago) the damage of Sweet Winds and Dragon Thrashed didn't get logged properly in the char sheet. So it may be that your chanter did more damage than it is written there.

Sweet Winds would be really neat if it transfered the endurance to the party...

#8
Reent

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@MaxQuest: last time I checked (long ago) the damage of Sweet Winds and Dragon Thrashed didn't get logged properly in the char sheet. So it may be that your chanter did more damage than it is written there.

Sweet Winds would be really neat if it transfered the endurance to the party...

 

Damage invocations is logged, weapon damage is logged... thats it...

 

Chants dont get logged (no Dragon Thrashed so the full log is useless past lvl 9 for chanters, before... only if you use white worms)

Damage your summons deal isn't logged...

so, if you start the game with phantom summon and come come soft winds, with 2 might - you will get maybe 0.1% of your damage dealt logged - with 20 might its  more, if you take white worms and abuse it against some enemies act 2, your damage logged will be quite high...

with 2 might come come deals 2 damage every tick, with 20 might it deals 3 damage every tick...

compare that to something like 0/6 damage every attack and something like zero damage every invocation (white worms okay - the other one is useless against DR)



#9
scythesong

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should I go with a race and that I feel most drawn to? This is for the min-max thingy, I really want to try out this game and I have already tried out all the classes and I am drawn towards Chanter the most. Gonna try out your tips, thanks!

Sure. While some races definitely have better innates than others, if it takes looking at something like a dwarf character sprite to get you to finish the game then I'd go with that. The "best" race depends on what type of build you're planning for anyway, and for the general-purpose tanky chanter each race has its pros and cons.

Just try to avoid fighting shadows at early levels unless your chanter is a Pale Elf or unless you have a priest around. Shadows/shades are the bane of any low endurance character in early game.

Sweet Winds would be really neat if it transfered the endurance to the party.


I actually thought that was what Sweet Winds did originally. I think the main reason it's remained the same is because its has situational early game OP-ness in a party of chanters. Personally I'd be fine if it didn't stack but had some other useful effect, like the endurance leech you mentioned.

Edited by scythesong, 10 August 2017 - 12:23 PM.


#10
MaxQuest

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@MaxQuest: last time I checked (long ago) the damage of Sweet Winds and Dragon Thrashed didn't get logged properly in the char sheet. So it may be that your chanter did more damage than it is written there.

I am playing with UPMod on ;)
The damage dealt by any DoT is properly registered on the character sheet for me)
I have explicitly tested with: Sweet Winds, Dragon Trashed, Shining Beacon, Disintegration, Soul Ignition, Wounding.

Sweet Winds would be really neat if it transfered the endurance to the party...

Agreed, that be neat.

#11
Boeroer

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I am playing with UPMod on ;)


:) Why didn't I think of that?

#12
scythesong

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@MaxQuest

 

You should really put that mod in your signature.



#13
Raven Darkholme

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While Dex does have it's benefits for the cooldown after invocations, it will never be worth putting points in it over other attributes.

MI is always gonna be the best stat on a chanter, even a tank.

INT is as good as MI but easier buffable at least early game, late game with MI helmets they are on the same level.

PER while less necessary on a tank chanter than on other chars is still the next best attribute after MI and INT, especially once you get Seven Nights, but ofc very useful from the 1st level.

CON is the kind of stat that is necessary but not great, you need it more than Dex tho.

Res is debatable, especially if you want to use the invocation exploit you will need 10 Res for chaining 5 Invocations, if not you can do without it but it's not really worth dumping Res for Dex.



#14
scythesong

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I've beaten the game so many times as a chanter with a starting might of 10. While might is definitely nice to have, all it really does is make killing stuff a bit faster. When you have 5 other people to help you kill stuff, it starts to fall behind priority-wise. I don't really care if I can kill PotD dragons 2 seconds faster, but I would prefer it if my character had faster reaction times to deal with "oh ****!" moments.

#15
Boeroer

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MIG also makes healing via Ancient Memory, Beloved Spirits and Veteran's Recovery more powerful.

And with a Dragon Thrashed chanter there are basically no "Oh sh!t"-moments. ;)
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#16
scythesong

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Oh there are. Like when one of those "The Dragon Thrashed" chanters gets dominated or something :p

My Chanter is usually my go-to guy for such emergencies because everyone else just seems to have something better to do. Wizards have their crowd control spells/nukes, Ciphers have their debuffs, priests have their buffs, warrior-types need to stand in the front and hit something, etc.
Chanters, on the other hand, are already doing their job just by being there/using their chants. Other actions are just a bonus, but because of how the game is set up (consumables, active items, LOTS of good weapons) you could do accomplish a lot with those bonus actions.

As an example, against dragons I prefer to have "With All Your Strength, Slay The Beast" so all the party's attacks crit. I pop a scroll of Prayer Against Fear for the back/mid row (priest takes care of front row), use Dominate (Ring of Changing Heart) on key targets (like the dragon), and while chaos ensues, casters are activating their accuracy buffs and everything just comes together with rows upon rows of crits seconds later. Another example is against those annoying Broodmothers and Ogre druids - it's my chanter who usually ends up spamming effects Suppress Affliction to mitigate the effects of their spells. Finally, Chanters can be downright nasty with the right gear/self-buffs and my Chanter can very easily switch to assassin mode with "Their Champion Braved the Horde Alone" and a dual-wield setup.

As for the healing, it depends. When you're relying on your Chanter for most of your Endurance recovery, then definitely. But you have other people with Endurance recovery abilities around, then meh.

BTW, it's one thing to say that your starting Might isn't a big deal and to say that Might (in general) is not important to a chanter. What I'm saying is the former, since I still end up with around 20+ might on my Chanter when fully buffed up.

Edited by scythesong, 12 August 2017 - 11:19 AM.


#17
Raven Darkholme

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Oh there are. Like when one of those "Dragon Thrashed" chanters gets dominated or something :p

My Chanter is usually my go-to guy for such emergencies because everyone else just seems to have something better to do. Wizards have their crowd control spells/nukes, Ciphers have their debuffs, priests have their buffs, warrior-types need to stand in the front and hit something, etc.
Chanters, on the other hand, are already doing their job just by being there/using their chants. Other actions are just a bonus, but because of how the game is set up (consumables, active items, LOTS of good weapons) you could do accomplish a lot with those bonus actions.

As for the healing, it depends. When you're relying on your Chanter for most of your Endurance recovery, then definitely. But you have other people with Endurance recovery abilities around, then meh.

You say when the chanter gets dominated Dex helps him, but could you explain how?

Your post is kind of contradictory for me but maybe I'm just slow. :p

(Or are you trying to say because you don't use dragon chant like other people your char doesn't get dominated??)

I usually just make sure to be either immune or have insane will or have a paladin to slap dominated chars back to their senses. :p

(which is honestly one of the most ridiculous abilities in the game :p)



#18
scythesong

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You say when the chanter gets dominated Dex helps him, but could you explain how?
Your post is kind of contradictory for me but maybe I'm just slow. :p
(Or are you trying to say because you don't use dragon chant like other people your char doesn't get dominated??)
I usually just make sure to be either immune or have insane will or have a paladin to slap dominated chars back to their senses. :p
(which is honestly one of the most ridiculous abilities in the game :p)

It's an in-joke attempt with Boeroer, I've brought up Chanters with Dragon Thrashed being dominated with him before. There was a discussion about a chanter party with Dragon Thrashed/how powerful it was and a relative newbie poster was going to try and conquer Od Nua with such a setup. I warned him about the Fampyrs.

As for what I would actually do if the Chanter gets dominated, then I simply Suppress Affliction or have a paladin/priest work on him.

Edited by scythesong, 12 August 2017 - 12:26 PM.


#19
Raven Darkholme

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Oh ok gotcha.

Priest just makes you immune to charmed and dominate and paladis just need to hit a charmed char to snap them out of it so no need to get too technical about it if you have either of those.

I remember a solo paladin of mine fighting undead Raedric who had over 200 Will defense against the fampyr gaze, so even if you have a party without priest or pala there's ways to just buff your will thru the roof even if the party consists of just 6 chanters I don't think Fampyr's will be trouble.

A newbie ofc will not know beforehand when he will actually need to defend against it so that is a different story.

 

I actually revived my 1,5 year old 6 cdhanter party to which I still had the save and am having a lot of fun with them.

It's not the most ideal party since for some strange reasons I made them all moon godlikes, "sadly" Beloved spirits x6 makes Silver Tide completely useless. :p

 

At least I was able to reroll my stats and the whole party now has maxed MI, IN and PE, 10 CO, 8 RE and dumped DE.

My main char just got level 6 and I will get a deflection talent now so I can completely dump RE but not for DE but more CO. :p


Edited by Raven Darkholme, 12 August 2017 - 02:00 PM.





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