Toolset

[Dark_Ansem]

Will this game actually feature proper modding, or it is going to be a disappointment like PoE 1?

[AwesomeOcelot]

Modding support isn't their focus, it might never be. For maps they seem to be making a lot of "from scratch" stuff, instead of using tool-sets and scripting. Also there's technology like their dialogue system they just don't want to share as it's a competitive advantage. They could do a lot more for modding UI, characters, and gameplay though.

[Dark_Ansem]

Modding support isn't their focus, it might never be. For maps they seem to be making a lot of "from scratch" stuff, instead of using tool-sets and scripting. Also there's technology like their dialogue system they just don't want to share as it's a competitive advantage. They could do a lot more for modding UI, characters, and gameplay though.

 

Back then for PoE1 they said that they would have considered it for this game. I'm just checking if they are going back on their word. And ignoring modding is foolish,

[emmil]

 

Modding support isn't their focus, it might never be. For maps they seem to be making a lot of "from scratch" stuff, instead of using tool-sets and scripting. Also there's technology like their dialogue system they just don't want to share as it's a competitive advantage. They could do a lot more for modding UI, characters, and gameplay though.

 

Back then for PoE1 they said that they would have considered it for this game. I'm just checking if they are going back on their word. And ignoring modding is foolish,

 

As AwesomeOcelot mentioned, there will be no significant support for modding.

They already made that clear in one of the Q&A sessions.

[Dark_Ansem]

Then I regret my pledge.

 

It's just mind boggling that, with all the money they have made, their obvious awareness that modding makes games live much longer AND the fact that they are using Unity 5 which can actually be downloaded by everyone and thus they wouldn't even need to devise a complex or expensive framework to actually make it work,

They will STILL ignore this.

[Celeras]

Then I regret my pledge.

 

It's just mind boggling that, with all the money they have made, their obvious awareness that modding makes games live much longer AND the fact that they are using Unity 5 which can actually be downloaded by everyone and thus they wouldn't even need to devise a complex or expensive framework to actually make it work,

They will STILL ignore this.

 

They aren't 'ignoring' modding. Its simply too difficult for modders to make new maps for this game. I think Josh said something about maybe being able to add new items or characters but everything else is just not feasible.

[Dark_Ansem]

 

Then I regret my pledge.

 

It's just mind boggling that, with all the money they have made, their obvious awareness that modding makes games live much longer AND the fact that they are using Unity 5 which can actually be downloaded by everyone and thus they wouldn't even need to devise a complex or expensive framework to actually make it work,

They will STILL ignore this.

 

They aren't 'ignoring' modding. Its simply too difficult for modders to make new maps for this game. I think Josh said something about maybe being able to add new items or characters but everything else is just not feasible.

 

 

I'm not buying this.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Unity engine doesn't make a difference, they would need to create a SDK because they're not using generic Unity assets. Also the Unity engine is heavily extended, so what you can download is not the same as the engine Pillars is running on.

[Celeras]

 

 

Then I regret my pledge.

 

It's just mind boggling that, with all the money they have made, their obvious awareness that modding makes games live much longer AND the fact that they are using Unity 5 which can actually be downloaded by everyone and thus they wouldn't even need to devise a complex or expensive framework to actually make it work,

They will STILL ignore this.

 

They aren't 'ignoring' modding. Its simply too difficult for modders to make new maps for this game. I think Josh said something about maybe being able to add new items or characters but everything else is just not feasible.

 

 

I'm not buying this.

 

 

Haven't you seen the videos of them showing the maps in development? Everything is just a flat image with 3D models and effects on top. I'm guessing they have to hand place some kind of pathing mesh for the AI to walk on and make sure certain parts of the image overlap characters and effects etc. Its not nearly as simple as the creation kit for example.

 

Plus I believe they mentioned during a live stream that they cant include all their tools in an SDK even if they made one because they don't own Unity.

[Boeroer]

However, they said that they would store game objects and savegames and other stuff in a more readable format so that modders may edit them more easily. That's something.

[Dark_Ansem]

However, they said that they would store game objects and savegames and other stuff in a more readable format so that modders may edit them more easily. That's something.

 

Gameplay and characters I can tolerate to be limited to.

 

But I'm still not buying what they said about the SDK.

[Boeroer]

Well, the maps are hand drawn stuff and all - nothing you can put together with a toolbox. You can see it in one of the fig videos. Maybe that's why.

[Dark_Ansem]

Well, the maps are hand drawn stuff and all - nothing you can put together with a toolbox. You can see it in one of the fig videos. Maybe that's why.

 

In Baldur's gate at least they could be copied and altered somewhat. Many mods do exist that do that.

[AwesomeOcelot]

Haven't you seen the videos of them showing the maps in development? Everything is just a flat image with 3D models and effects on top.

That is false, there's several maps that make up the background for PoE, and with Deadfire there's even more lighting effects on the background. It's not just a flat image, you couldn't draw a 2D image and place it into PoE.

[Celeras]

 

Haven't you seen the videos of them showing the maps in development? Everything is just a flat image with 3D models and effects on top.

That is false, there's several maps that make up the background for PoE, and with Deadfire there's even more lighting effects on the background. It's not just a flat image, you couldn't draw a 2D image and place it into PoE.

 

 

That sounds like exactly what I was trying to say... The background is 2D and all the effects and models are placed on top of it.

[Dark_Ansem]

 

 

Haven't you seen the videos of them showing the maps in development? Everything is just a flat image with 3D models and effects on top.

That is false, there's several maps that make up the background for PoE, and with Deadfire there's even more lighting effects on the background. It's not just a flat image, you couldn't draw a 2D image and place it into PoE.

 

 

That sounds like exactly what I was trying to say... The background is 2D and all the effects and models are placed on top of it.

 

 

So not impossible by far.

[Hynkel]

Lack of modding support will certainly not make me regret my pledge as it's something that was never promised to begin with.

 

That being said, I really really hope we get something like the Tutu mod at some point to inject multiclassing and other mods into PoE 1. I have a strong feeling that modding will determine whether PoE will be remembered as a good game, or as a legendary one.

[Dark_Ansem]

Lack of modding support will certainly not make me regret my pledge as it's something that was never promised to begin with.

 

That being said, I really really hope we get something like the Tutu mod at some point to inject multiclassing and other mods into PoE 1. I have a strong feeling that modding will determine whether PoE will be remembered as a good game, or as a legendary one.

 

Just like Baldur's gate.

[JerekKruger]

Back then for PoE1 they said that they would have considered it for this game. I'm just checking if they are going back on their word.

 

That's not going back on their word. It would be if they had said "we will definitely include a modding toolset in PoE2", but they didn't say that.

[Xaratas]

We need something! These Unity Bundles are aweful without a propper editor. And Unity Assets Bundle Extractor, as awesome as it is, is no help in finding some uuid in the big heap of stuff (like 1,6mb file level31 (29 subfiles with up to ~10000? resources each)).

[Raygereio]

I'm not buying this.

Here's an old update from PoE1's development that might give you some context.

Would it really be "too difficult" for modders? Nah, off course not. The process as described back during PoE1's development would be really time consuming, but there would be people who'd spend the time required to create new stuff.

 

The real issue is whether or not Obsidian has the resources to take their internal tool chain and publish a toolset that's usable. There's also the question about whether or not they'd be even allowed to do that. It's perfectly possible the environment creation process depends on some middleware that Obsidian can't just dump on the Internet.

It would be awesome if Obsidian could release a toolset that allows things like environment editing/creation. But it's one of things that people often think is way more simpler then it actually is.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Raygereio

[CrumpetsForBreakfast]

I think they were always open and honest about it. Using Unity means that modding with exterior data loaded by an engine is either not possible or extremely difficult. It's something to do with how Unity bundles or internalizes assets, I'm not sure on the details but I've heard it before for other things too.

 

Good toolsets would probably have to be in house projects so probably using their own engine instead. Also the levels are all pre made from 3D renders I think so probably the best they could do is allow people to import their own background image.

 

I don't think a toolset for Pillars was ever in the cards to be honest. It's still a good game but not that kind of game.