OK, so we know there is a way to get the tempered Abydon ending by meddling with a certain gamefile, courtesy of @skywyze.
But what about getting it the legit way?
Here is the rundown of known info on that issue from various sources (check below for details). The final conversation has three rhetorical points to make to successfully temper Abydon. They are:
- "Perhaps Abydon was meant to forget his past. Some knowledge is too dangerous for this world."
- "You speak as if history were a guide. Yet it doesn't always provide a good example."
- "Memory remains a burden, even when the events and people it recalls are long gone. It's pain with no purpose."
To advance each point, you have to successfully point to two pieces of evidence.
1. Perhaps Abydon was meant to forget his past. Some knowledge is too dangerous for this world.
For the first main point, there's a default response that you can win no matter what you did previously. It is
- "Kith shouldn't have anything as powerful as the White Forge"
followed up with
- "That nearly ended with the destruction of Durgan's Battery and the death of thousands."
Possible bug! This may be true, but for some reason The Eyeless response for this was holding me responsible for letting the Crucible Knights pursue in making the forge-knights in the quest Winds of Steel. As a matter of fact I never started this quest due to me siding with the Doemenels, but maybe finishing Built to Last is enough for this argument to fail.
So that leaves one other piece of evidence needed to advance. You're left with responding with either:
- "Ondra said Abydon's memory would threaten the peace between the gods."
- "Animancy has made no progress, yet it's responsible for wichts, the Baelreach Incident, and the swindle of desperate families."
- "Aloth, you were part of the Leaden Key. Surely you understand why some secrets need to be kept."
The Animancy point is ruled out if you advocated for animancy at the duc's hearing. You have to be against it and blame it for all the bad things that happen in the Dyrwood, so the duc would want to ban it, thus animancy never recovers in the ending slides.
Possible bug! Not sure about being neutral, but the Eyeless tell me that I allowed the duc to let animancers work unchecked. This is silly, as I clearly stated that animancy should be banned *at least for now* and got the neutral ending.
Possible exploit! There is an easy way to overcome this, but you need to finish the whole White March expansion BEFORE the animancy hearings. If so, you can argue that animancy has knowledge best forgotten, the same thing you use if it were to be banned. Later you can proceed to the hearings and convince the duc that animancy is OK (win-win).
The point with Aloth only works if he is swayed more toward authority rather than autonomy.
The Ondra point is the one where I am still not sure what conditions are necessary for it to "win." If you had perception 12 and intellect 14, you could ask Ondra if she loved Abydon during the conversation at the Abbey. I did that in my playthrough but it still didn't affect the outcome with the Eyeless. They just refute it by saying
- "Conflict is part of progress. Peace in ignorance is not worth keeping."
Perhaps someone can chime in here if they were able to advance this point somehow.
2. You speak as if history were a guide. Yet it doesn't always provide a good example.
For the second main point, what worked for me was using Pallegina and the Devil of Caroc. For Pallegina, I believe she had to have gone against her orders in her personal quest. Start with this response
- "The Dyrwoodans and Glanfathans have fought two wars over their history, and they still haven't moved forward."
and follow up with
- "It doesn't take a war to shatter a nation. Already, Dyrwood's neighbors conspire to strangle it through duplicitous trade agreements. Right, Pallegina?"
To use the Devil of Caroc to make your point, I believe she had to have killed Harmke in her personal quest. Mention this to the Eyeless
- "The Devil's history has only perpetuated a cycle of bloodshed."
and follow up with
- "You talk about history in the abstract, but it is personal. The loss of one's history - home, family, community - is traumatic and transformative."
3. Memory remains a burden, even when the events and people it recalls are long gone. It's pain with no purpose.
For the third main point, there is another default response that you can use to make one argument:
- "I'm Awakened. I'm tormented by questions from a past life."
followed up with
- "Sometimes, moving on is the way to move forward. Remaining stuck in the past is not progress."
I used Maneha for the second piece of evidence needed to win this argument. She had to have cleared her conscience by dipping in the pool at the Abbey in her personal quest.
- "Maneha shouldn't have to suffer guilt over an act she committed in a past life."
Possible bug and exploit! Some players report that even after preventing Maneha from swinnin' in the pool, they get her to speak her line to the Eyeless as if she did forget her past life. So it seems that due to this bug Maneha helps you win the argument either way.
Zahua may also prove useful here, as you may convince the monk to let go of his memories and move on in his quest. But I haven't been playing much with him in my party, so I'm not able to use any citation here. I'm pretty sure this one's been confirmed.
There's been a lot of speculation about other choices made in the game that affect this segment. Just to name a few:
- binding or releasing the souls of the Pargrunen
- killing (or not) the Readcerans in the Iron Flail fort
- choices you make during the Risk Tolerance task
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but at this point I'm nearly certain that they don't matter to the Eyeless and all the important reasons are mentioned above. Of course we still are not sure about the Ondra argument, so this topic needs a little bit more investigation.
Edited by Messier-31, 18 October 2017 - 05:19 AM.