Rejoice! Black Isle Bastards 100% funded! Stretch goal: 55% funded! Thank you everyone!

[Fledan]

Haven't chipped in yet either (so who do I think I am to even suggest anything, right) but I thought that listing descriptions of the robbed individuals rather than specific names would be the better approach. Or maybe both depending on what each backer would prefer.

In addition to listing the "confiscated" possessions I think it would be neat if one could also include a little note in regards to the robbed individual's fate.

Maybe something along the lines of:

<description OR specific lore-friendly name>; keelhauled and nailed to the stern, gulls did the rest - <taken possessions>

<description OR specific lore-friendly name>; got away by opening a magical doorway of some sorts - <taken possessions>

 

<description OR specific lore-friendly name>; bartered off for 9 barrels of Old Vailian port - <taken possessions>

[Boeroer]

Hi good sir or madam Boeroer. I am a nigerian prince. My huge inheritance of more than 100.000.000 million US dollars will be at my disposal the first of May 2017. I would like to invest in Pillars of Eternity version 2, but as for now my enormous assets are frozen. 

 

All I need of you good sir or madam is a small donation to this just enterprise of 1839,88 dollars. On the first of May 2017 I will email you the investment back plus 100.000 US dollars in interest. 

 

Sincerly Nigerian Prince

Sorry, I don't buy it - not enough grammar and spelling mistakes.

[mistermannindy]

 

Full disclosure - I haven't donated.  I plan to come April. 

 

That being said, I do not want any in-game "recognition".  Are any of the other "super backer" pledges getting in game recognition?  Based on the $5k Build a Pirate Party description, this level gets to "create a band of pirates and design your own ship".  "Your name appears in the Gold Backer section of in game credits".  I see no mention of people getting in game recognition for selecting this level of pledge.  If I donate $5k and purchase my own Pirate Party, I don't get any in game recognition, I don't see how this community effort differs from an individual's $5k pledge perks.

 

That being said, I think the only name that should appear in the credits is "Black Isle Bastards" - anyone who donated knows they are a part of this community.

 

Well if you pledged $5000 and named your pirate captain mistermannindy and the boat "mistermannindy's leaky bathtub" you'd effectively get in game recognition.

 

 

I highly doubt that.  I would sincerely hope the team learned from those horrible tombstones in POE1.  Allowing me to use my forum name in-game would definitely break the 4th wall.  I'd expect them to force me to select a name, or names, they've already concocted OR work with me to get an agreed-upon name.

[illathid]

 

 

Full disclosure - I haven't donated.  I plan to come April. 

 

That being said, I do not want any in-game "recognition".  Are any of the other "super backer" pledges getting in game recognition?  Based on the $5k Build a Pirate Party description, this level gets to "create a band of pirates and design your own ship".  "Your name appears in the Gold Backer section of in game credits".  I see no mention of people getting in game recognition for selecting this level of pledge.  If I donate $5k and purchase my own Pirate Party, I don't get any in game recognition, I don't see how this community effort differs from an individual's $5k pledge perks.

 

That being said, I think the only name that should appear in the credits is "Black Isle Bastards" - anyone who donated knows they are a part of this community.

 

Well if you pledged $5000 and named your pirate captain mistermannindy and the boat "mistermannindy's leaky bathtub" you'd effectively get in game recognition.

 

 

I highly doubt that.  I would sincerely hope the team learned from those horrible tombstones in POE1.  Allowing me to use my forum name in-game would definitely break the 4th wall.  I'd expect them to force me to select a name, or names, they've already concocted OR work with me to get an agreed-upon name.

 

 

Yeah, I doubt "mistermannindy" but you're missing the forest for the trees. If your handle was lore friendly it could work and would effectively be in-game recognition.

[mistermannindy]

 

 

 

Full disclosure - I haven't donated.  I plan to come April. 

 

That being said, I do not want any in-game "recognition".  Are any of the other "super backer" pledges getting in game recognition?  Based on the $5k Build a Pirate Party description, this level gets to "create a band of pirates and design your own ship".  "Your name appears in the Gold Backer section of in game credits".  I see no mention of people getting in game recognition for selecting this level of pledge.  If I donate $5k and purchase my own Pirate Party, I don't get any in game recognition, I don't see how this community effort differs from an individual's $5k pledge perks.

 

That being said, I think the only name that should appear in the credits is "Black Isle Bastards" - anyone who donated knows they are a part of this community.

 

Well if you pledged $5000 and named your pirate captain mistermannindy and the boat "mistermannindy's leaky bathtub" you'd effectively get in game recognition.

 

 

I highly doubt that.  I would sincerely hope the team learned from those horrible tombstones in POE1.  Allowing me to use my forum name in-game would definitely break the 4th wall.  I'd expect them to force me to select a name, or names, they've already concocted OR work with me to get an agreed-upon name.

 

 

Yeah, I doubt "mistermannindy" but you're missing the forest for the trees. If your handle was lore friendly it could work and would effectively be in-game recognition.

 

 

I see the forest, trust me. 

 

Yes, as a $5K backer I could create appropriately named content.  A single pirate party name and a boat name.  I just don't see why some people think this group is entitled to a larger game presence than someone who donated $5K.

Edited March 17, 2017 by mistermannindy

[illathid]

I see the forest, trust me. 

 

Yes, as a $5K backer I could create appropriately named content.  A single pirate party name and a boat name.  I just don't see why people think this group is entitled to a larger game presence than someone who donated $5K.

 

You're moving the goal posts man. You first point was that a regular $5k backer wouldn't get any in game recognition so the BIB shouldn't get any, which I showed to be false. Now you're saying that the BIB shouldn't get more in game recognition than a regular $5k backer. Plus Aarik has explicitly said something like this would be fine:

 

 

• We can put in a ledger on the ship that can have log as Osvir has described and names of additional crew members that cannot be an NPC (optional).

Edited March 17, 2017 by illathid

[Boeroer]

How is it a larger game presence if you created a line of text in a ledger (that not many will read anyways)?

 

The work to put said list into the game is very, very small and the amount of recognition is very small, too - more a wink than anything. It's mostly for yourself and the other BIBs because nobody else would know who those guys on the list really are. Besides that, I think it's a funny idea that does NOT break the 4th wall if we choose our entries accordingly. As I said: no Mister Potatohead or whatever like it was in the guestbook of the Club of Refined and Prestigious Gentlemen in PoE1. And no things like "Peetero Washburnéo" because your real name is Peter Washburne or something like that. Mister Mannindy also doesn't work as ingame name. But maybe a lore firendly variation of it or just a description as we already said above. A description will most likely not break the 4th wall.

And for Obsidian it's no difference if 200 people pledged 5000$ for one crew and ship or if one person pledges 5000$ for a crew and ship. We would simply ask for a book.

A single donator most likely will have a detailed idea an concept of his ship and crew and will try to put it in the game.

We as BIBs agreed that we would only give a few noncommital suggestions what the BIBs are and what ship we would prefer and what the backstory could be.

I know of at least one 5000$ backer who has an exact picture how his 5000$ peldge is supposed to look in the game. She/he will cause more work than we will. 

 

So all in all I'd say we as BIBs who donate 5000$ and suggest a ledger (we're not demanding it) will cause less work and trouble than a single person who donates 5000$ and suggest a lot of stuff (which is understandable, because if you single-handedly spend 5000$ on this you want it to become "your baby").

 

I guess we as individual persons will not be as emotionally connected to every single detail of that crew and ship as a single backer would be.

 

So I don't understand the opposition.

 

edit: Illathid - nice quote. I already forgot that Aarik said that.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Boeroer

[Fluffle]

I am not sure where this argument is heading.

 

Obsidian has offered some kind of individual donator recognition for our group backed content just as they did for other groups in the past for PoE1.

 

So it is their offer and we are discussing the options. I really do not like that by accepting this offer from Obsidian we now must justify or apologize for feeling entitled. Which we don't.

 

I see it this way very simply and easy: If you do not like this project, then do not donate here. As simple as that.

If you feel that this group of people who try to make this project come true is privileged in some way then please address your concern to Obsidian directly.

 

I will not feel bad for the offer that Obsidian has made to us. And I will not feel bad for considering and eventually accepting it.

 

And before this matter gets out of hand, please, everyone who discusses this argument think about how your next post can contribute to NOT let this argument get out of hand.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Fluffle

[JerekKruger]

PayPal just gave me a £5 voucher so I donated another £5. I don't actually think the voucher was used, but hey, I thought I'd try.

[Boeroer]

Huh? Nice! But why do I never get vouchers from PayPal?

[JerekKruger]

Huh? Nice! But why do I never get vouchers from PayPal?

 

Well I created a new PayPal account for this (my old one seems unretrievable) so perhaps it's a "new person reward"?

 

EDIT: also I suspect this voucher is only for certain vendors (though the wording doesn't make this at all clear) so I doubt I'll get any use out of it.

Edited March 17, 2017 by JerekKruger

[mistermannindy]

 

• We can put in a ledger on the ship that can have log as Osvir has described and names of additional crew members that cannot be an NPC (optional).

 

 

Ah, ok.  I missed that statement from Aarik.  Good to know.  Thanks.

[Ninjamestari]

The Black Isle Bastards is an obvious nudge to the roots of Obsidian, this is why its interesting. The Black Isle Bastards are not the "baby" of the group of donors/people supporting it, it is a recognition of sorts for the Black Isle Studios. I think this whole argument about 'people being entitled' is utterly ridiculous. Donating to obsidian, or to this project, doesn't entitle anyone to anything, it is simply a group of people showing their enthusiasm for the idea, and I really don't think opposing it over some argument about falsely perceived privilege is appropriate. This isn't about money or entitlement, it is about people showing passion for a nod to the past. Please treat it as such.

[gogocactus]

Just donated another 25$ making that a total of $50. But that's all I, recently graduated and unemployed, can muster at the moment. With just 31 days left, I couldn't bear to see this project's flame of hope die out (# melodramatic :'). Come on guys, let's do our best and get these Bastards into the game.

Edited March 21, 2017 by gogocactus

[Fluffle]

Haven't chipped in yet either (so who do I think I am to even suggest anything, right) but I thought that listing descriptions of the robbed individuals rather than specific names would be the better approach. Or maybe both depending on what each backer would prefer.

 

In addition to listing the "confiscated" possessions I think it would be neat if one could also include a little note in regards to the robbed individual's fate.

 

Maybe something along the lines of:

 

<description OR specific lore-friendly name>; keelhauled and nailed to the stern, gulls did the rest - <taken possessions>

 

<description OR specific lore-friendly name>; got away by opening a magical doorway of some sorts - <taken possessions>

 

<description OR specific lore-friendly name>; bartered off for 9 barrels of Old Vailian port - <taken possessions>

 

So I had a talk with Aarik last week and I took some time to think about this.

 

One concern of the team is, that our examples were "overly descriptive", i.e. too long.

So we would need a character limit.

 

Based on the idea of Fledan I propose that everyone who has donated at least $50 is eligible for this ingame recognition as long as there are free entries available. The maximum entries will be 50. And once we reach the goal of $5000 this option of ingame recognition will not be available anymore.

 

For this ingame recognition you can fill out 4 categories, two of which will be randomly chosen by me or Obsidian. This serves to limit character length but also to make diverse entries. Obsidian is then free to alter the entries to make them lore-friendly if they think that'd be beneficial for their game.

 

The overall character length of your entry must not exceed 80 characters. A space character also counts as a character.

With overall length, I mean the overall character length of the 2 categories that we pick from your 4 submitted categories.

 

These 4 categories that you can submit are:

- description of robbed individual

- specific lore friendly name of robbed individual

- robbed individual's fate

- taken possessions

 

This is just a suggestion so far. I would like to hear your opinions first.

[illathid]

That sounds good to me. Although could you explain the character limit a bit more? So the two categories obsidian picks can't exceed 80 characters including spaces, but we won't know which categories will be picked? If that's the case, maybe it would make more sense that each category has a limit of 40 characters?

[Fluffle]

That sounds good to me. Although could you explain the character limit a bit more? So the two categories obsidian picks can't exceed 80 characters including spaces, but we won't know which categories will be picked? If that's the case, maybe it would make more sense that each category has a limit of 40 characters?

 

Yes that would make more sense with one exception, you will hardly need 40 characters for the name of your character.

 

But now if you make your name only 10 characters long and each other category 70 characters you would prevent us from choosing to not pick your name. That way you could force us to pick your name.

 

So the rule would be that there must not be any combination of two of your four submitted categories that exceeds 80 characters.

 

I fear this rule could actually confuse people. Maybe we should just let people pick the 2 categories themselve they'd like to submit and hope people will pick different ones.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Fluffle

[illathid]

Yeah, I don't know. I'll see what other people think before weighing in again I think.

[Fluffle]

Well I have thought about it some more and from my experience more rules actually tend to confuse people. So I'm now in favor of letting everyone who is eligible for ingame recognition choose the two categories themselves.

 

But yeah let's see what other people think

[Messier-31]

EDIT: There was some feedback from me, but after giving it some thought I erased the whole thing.

 

$50 for "recognition" is beyond my budget, so I'll just sit quietly through this one, leave my current pledges as they are, and chip in a little more in April.

 

Excelsior!

Edited March 22, 2017 by Messier-31

[Fluffle]

EDIT: There was some feedback from me, but after giving it some thought I erased the whole thing.

 

$50 for "recognition" is beyond my budget, so I'll just sit quietly through this one, leave my current pledges as they are, and chip in a little more in April.

 

Excelsior!

 

Yeah that is one of the disadvantages of the ingame recognition. Not everyone will be recognized individually.

 

So the ingame recognition is something exclusive to some people only, while we are actually one group of people who want to make this happen.

So by doing this we kind of exclude people from our own group from participating in something.

 

And I really dislike that thought.

 

Still we do need more money. There is no way around that.

And we are limited to 50 entries anyway. So not everyone can be included in individual recognition.

 

There are donators for who $5 or $10 are a lot of money actually. And they still donated it. And they won't be eligible for this ingame recognition.

But that is also how the crowdfunding tiers work on Kickstarter or Fig. That is how life works actually.

 

But I understand the concern that the individual ingame recognition can divide our group. I am not sure how to handle this to be honest.

[gogocactus]

Fluffle, I like your idea regarding the provision of a lore-friendly ledger of the B&B's victims and loot in order to provide backer recognition.

 

That said, personally, I would just want to see this BiB project succeed whether we would get any in-game recognition or not.

 

However, providing in-game recognition to those people that helped fund the project through a lore-friendly list of loot is a good way to further a more personal connection with the game and the BiB project. On top of that, it is also just sheer fun. I for myself can't wait to see what fun and creative (lore-friendly!) descriptions people will come up with.

 

One possible idea might be to have each backer of the BiB project contribute the above four line description and then to randomly draw the contributions to include. However, I would immediately like to offer a counter argument to my own suggestion and suggest that this risks causing disappointment among those backers whose contributions do not get selected.

 

<edit 1>

 

Is it perhaps an idea to include the top ten funders by default and make the other entries part of a public contest? For example, you could collect everyone's entries and make them part of a private (BiB-backer only) or public poll in which everyone could vote for his personal top five. That way you would not offend the sensibilities of the most generous backers, provide everyone with an opportunity to have his entry selected and have a fun event in the form of a contest of creativity surrounding the Black Isle Bastards.

 

Alternatively, you could randomise the remaining 40 entries and in that way provide everyone with equal opportunities.

 

Regarding the format of entries, I would like to support your suggestion above that you or Obsidian select two entries out of a total of four. In this I would also like to suggest that you limit the character size of each entry to a total of forty characters, character names - included -. Standardising the length of text for each entry will ensure that a combination of entries does not exceed the stipulated maximum of eighty characters and as such, lighten the burden of selection.

Edited March 22, 2017 by gogocactus

[Boeroer]

Maybe the people who donated most could give suggestions concerning the crew? I mean there have to be some BIB NPCs (around 5 or how many?) and if you were able to influence their appearance a bit you might not need an additional ledger entry?

 

I somewhat like the straw pull idea.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Boeroer

[Fluffle]

Maybe the people who donated most could give suggestions concerning the crew? I mean there have to be some BIB NPCs (around 5 or how many?) and if you were able to influence their appearance a bit you might not need an additional ledger entry?

 

I somewhat like the straw pull idea.

 

Well the actual underlying problem here is, should we let our group be divided by the amount of donation. Should people who donate more be privileged? Should people who donate less be excluded from something?

 

Do we want that or not, in general?

 

Because if we don't want that then I see no point in moving this issue away from backer recognition to "influencing" the appearance of the BIB in the game.

 

So this is my personal opinion now, it's not a rule or law or whatever.

I would prefer if we stayed one united group. Let us not divide into who donated more and who donated less.

 

We have only 50 entries, but why not let everyone submit for them and then let Obsidian choose the ones they like most?

 

There would still be a minimal amount of donation required, yes despite of what I just said. Because I wouldn't want people to donate just $1 do be able to submit their ideas. But this minimal amount would be much lower like $10 or $20 dollars.

 

That said you can always submit your ideas anyway on the Black Isle Bastards and their appearance and so on. I always said that you as a donator are free to submit your ideas.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Fluffle

[Fluffle]

So to anyone who's interested in forum badges:

Specifically the Deadfire Backer Badge.

 

There appear to be three different levels of this badge, bronze, silver and gold.

I am not sure what amount of money is required for each level.

 

The gold level wasn't even mentioned in the Fig campaign.

 

Anyway I asked Aarik if the contribution to the Black Isle Bastards could count towards those badge levels.

 

And yes, if we get funded, and I then hand in proof of your contribution, this contribution would count towards the amount necessary for the Deadfire Backer Badge.

 

So if we get funded and you'd like your contribution to count for the Deadfire Backer Badge, send me a message