Making the "Black Isle Bastards" come true! Crowd funding a pirate crew!

[Karkarov]

I think this is probably the best choice.

Also I think it comes down a lot to what these "options" really are.   If all we get is "you can pick one of these 4 ship models" and it ends up just being some random mook combat encounter that really isn't that compelling to me.

 

If it turns out we can turn it into some political intrique where the encounter only happens if you have Pallegina, and the "pirates" are elite government agents sent by one of the Vailian republics, or maybe some shady group hunting the Watcher for past transgressions.  Or it gets tied to some side quest about a ghost ship...  Something where there can be some lore behind it, that's cool. 

 

I really didn't like the "adventuring parties" from the backers in Eternity because they just turned out to be semi fun/challenging combat puzzles.  Majority of them had no real lore behind them, they didn't even talk, they were just there to be killed and looted.  That just doesn't feel worth the effort or investment.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Karkarov

[Osvir]

Oh right!

​- How many crew members on the ship? (Generic NPC's essentially)

​I understand that it'd only be a 6 man party of Pirates (Captain, First Mate, Master Gunner, Navigator), but what about all the small time crew? Is there room for like one text line/sentance (no dialogue window) over the head of those potential crew if the Player clicks them? (Or perhaps random banter as the Player passes by?)

​Piling up on the creative pile
​If the maximum crew size is 6 individuals... that'd be a medium sized sail boat, no? Unless the crew is magical somehow and controls the ship in some other way~ or again, a Ghost Ship Crew, Soul/Spirit Crew.

​... a Chanter Pirate Crew? (Skeletons) xD
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/39725256832505941/494AFE89074E5D096EBB291CACD95BF23CFEAF36/
 

 

get some kinda agreement on a basic concept/theme for the pirate crew/ship.  karkarov's tommy gun wielding time-travelers might prove difficult given the limits o' the setting, but am thinking we shouldn't try and limit folks much.  let folks come up with ideas, and then find a way to choose/vote for OUR theme.

 

Arrquebus wielding time-travelers?

Edited January 31, 2017 by Osvir

[LordCrash]

 

I you guys really want to create the ship and stuff yourself in a group effort or whatever, I'm out. That's just too much hassle for me and even more important, t's a threat for the consistency and quality of the game IMO.

 

In Gromnir's words: Have fun.

 

But doesn't this apply to any backer related content in the game?

 

Let's say someone would buy the pirate group + ship alone. In what way would that not be "a threat for the consistency and quality of the game"?

 

It is Obsidian's job to take care that that doesn't happen. And that applies to all backer related content, does it not?

 

And Obsidian already says "some restrictions apply" on the tier rewards. So of course they are aware of this.

 

 

Yes, you're right. After having played many crowdfunded games the backer-created content was almost always among the worst elements of the respective game, either because it was just annoying, or because it meant a ton of extra work for the devs without any benefit for the game or because it was just inconsistent with the rest of the game, merely gaving reference to people or stories nobody knows or nobody should know in the context of the game. PoE certainly isn't without guilt here because the backer tombs (just to name a simple example) sadly covered all three points mentioned.

 

That might be an unpopular opinion but I think that the game should be made 100% by Obsidian, only covering the original vision. All that backer-created or related content is just fan-service, but in a bad form, because it only caters to specific persons rather than to everybody playing the game. I know why developers open these tiers but that doesn't mean that I have to like them from a design perspective.

 

Larian included the weresheeps in DOS as well but they gadly never asked the fans to decide in which way. So Larian came up with something that fit into the overall style and structure of the game that made it a nice experience for every gamer, not just the weresheep funders. Imo that's the only way something like that should and could be implemented if the quality of the game is your top priority.

 

And I don't want to create drama, I just state my humble opinion. If you guys are fine with creating your own stuff, go for it, Obsidian seems to be fine with that anyway. Just don't expect me to support this cause or to take part in the effort, that's all. 

 

 

Edit: But just for you to remember: I was one of the "founding fathers" of both the OOoE for PoE and the Weresheeps of Original Sin for Larian's DOS and in both cases the effort was primarily about collecting more money. In the case of the OOoE we started an additional fundraiser with the mere promise of an individual forum name (and a badge I created and individually customized back then for a ton of people). It wasn't about rewards, especially not when we started it (you should actually know that, you were there as well) and we didn't talk in lengths about what to do if we ever reach the goal before we even started the whole thing. It's kind of funny to watch this thread in which people discuss what they would do while nobody seems willing to actually start the whole damn thing and nobody is really willing to just collect more money for "the cause". I'd still say: get your priorities straight and just do it...

Edited January 31, 2017 by LordCrash

[Gromnir]

brings up another question: how long do we have before we need submit to obsidian?  

 

if obsidian needs our pirate crew and ship options by, just as a worst case scenario, march 1, then we should know o' such a deadline asap. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Osvir]

This sort of answers one of my questions/gives me a general idea:
"- Will we get or can we ask for lore spoiler tidbits regarding piracy, economics, politics, etc. in the Deadfire game? (nothing plot spoiling though, just to get information on the current state of the world/state of Naasitaq & the Archipelago)"

I cut out the relevant bits.

"...age of exploration and colonization and the expansion of imperialist powers..."

"...Deadfire is currently being colonized and sort of imperialist forces are moving in and either trying to set up their own colonies or set up their own deals with the native cultures for you know wether its shipping rights or access to resources or various things. So we’re trying to highlight social conflicts that you don’t always necessarily see in most fantasy settings..."

​
Josh Sawyer Interview (31st of January)

Edited January 31, 2017 by Osvir

[Karkarov]

And I don't want to create drama, I just state my humble opinion. If you guys are fine with creating your own stuff, go for it, Obsidian seems to be fine with that anyway. Just don't expect me to support this cause or to take part in the effort, that's all.

I just want to address this real fast.  I think your concerns are considerably similar to many of ours.  I have no intention of seriously suggesting a pirate ship of union workers with tommy guns, and I am not interested in putting Kaptain Karkarov in game. 

 

While I will be happy to support a more tongue in cheek encounter, I have no interest in supporting something that is not fun and memorable for the normal player, without also being lore friendly and consistent with Eora.  I want it to have a positive impact on the game, an encounter that players enjoy, and I want it to be seemless.  I don't people to play it and say "Oh this is that "backer" pirate ship" then snicker.  I want to fit so well they don't even realize it was backer content.

 

The problem is our ability to accomplish that relies heavily on Obsidian's restrictions, not on our creativity.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Karkarov

[Osvir]

Another question:

​- Does the Pirate ship have to go on water? (Naasitaq... sand ship!)

​Not thinking it's going that direction, but if it's not a restriction, making a "random encounter" area where the background is just "Desert tile" or "Desert background" wouldn't be too much of a hassle, or would it? (I'm thinking something like Final Fantasy VII, under the theme park, the background when you run out into the desert is just repeating over and over)

More creative piling (thinking outside the box a bit)
​Does the ship have to be sailable? (I got an image of a ship wreck half-sunk into the sands, and entering it gets you into a mini-ship-sized-dungeon where the ​cursed(?) ​pirate crew is?). Same thing could apply to a crashed ship against a reef or something.

​Furthermore, it could be the same crashed ship, doing some space & time bending (Karkarov's Time Travellers), and depending on ​when ​(time of day/weather) you enter X area, the wreck would be there?

​E.g. entering a desert map during a sandstorm, and when it has passed (if​ dynamic weather is temporary, and doesn't persist/loop infinitely whilst you are in X area afflicted by Sandstorm), you can find the wreck. Or by going to the docks of some city at night, after some event, a ethereal ship stands by the docks (you wouldn't be able to enter or interact much, but perhaps get some "hints"~ a mystery).

Edited January 31, 2017 by Osvir

[Fluffle]

And I don't want to create drama, I just state my humble opinion. If you guys are fine with creating your own stuff, go for it, Obsidian seems to be fine with that anyway. Just don't expect me to support this cause or to take part in the effort, that's all.

That is totally fine, no drama there

 

But you could consider this: If you DID take part in this, then you could take extra care to ensure that it will meet certain standards and that this pirate crew (Option B) will not turn out to be "a threat for the consistency and quality of the game"!

 

You could be our quality insurance that way

 

Think about it, this Option B is most likely going to happen anyway, with or without you.

By taking part in this you could increase the odds of this being consistent with the quality of the game.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Fluffle

[illathid]

 

And I don't want to create drama, I just state my humble opinion. If you guys are fine with creating your own stuff, go for it, Obsidian seems to be fine with that anyway. Just don't expect me to support this cause or to take part in the effort, that's all.

I just want to address this real fast.  I think your concerns are considerably similar to many of ours.  I have no intention of seriously suggesting a pirate ship of union workers with tommy guns, and I am not interested in putting Kaptain Karkarov in game. 

 

While I will be happy to support a more tongue in cheek encounter, I have no interest in supporting something that is not fun and memorable for the normal player, without also being lore friendly and consistent with Eora.  I want it to have a positive impact on the game, an encounter that players enjoy, and I want it to be seemless.  I don't people to play it and say "Oh this is that "backer" pirate ship" then snicker.  I want to fit so well they don't even realize it was backer content.

 

The problem is our ability to accomplish that relies heavily on Obsidian's restrictions, not on our creativity.

 

 

I think many of the group-backed stuff in PoE worked out the best to be honest. I think the various inns that were designed by various communities fit in pretty seamlessly with the world.

[LordCrash]

 

And I don't want to create drama, I just state my humble opinion. If you guys are fine with creating your own stuff, go for it, Obsidian seems to be fine with that anyway. Just don't expect me to support this cause or to take part in the effort, that's all.

I just want to address this real fast.  I think your concerns are considerably similar to many of ours.  I have no intention of seriously suggesting a pirate ship of union workers with tommy guns, and I am not interested in putting Kaptain Karkarov in game. 

 

While I will be happy to support a more tongue in cheek encounter, I have no interest in supporting something that is not fun and memorable for the normal player, without also being lore friendly and consistent with Eora.  I want it to have a positive impact on the game, an encounter that players enjoy, and I want it to be seemless.  I don't people to play it and say "Oh this is that "backer" pirate ship" then snicker.  I want to fit so well they don't even realize it was backer content.

 

The problem is our ability to accomplish that relies heavily on Obsidian's restrictions, not on our creativity.

 

 

I don't doubt that you guys can be creative and I don't doubt that you can come up with good ideas. It's just my personal experience with backer-related content that makes me a bit wary about that stuff in genereal. And I want to point out some stuff that might be of some importance here, based on my personal experience on the subject. To get started, ask yourself some questions.

 

1) What's the actual goal of this fundraiser or what's the biggest goal for it?

 

2) Who will actually organize the fundraising effort and how?

 

3) Is this fundraiser aimed at getting in as many people as possible or whom should be attracted to join the ranks?

 

4) How should people get attracted to join? Who's doing the marketing and where?

 

5) What's likely the best argument to attrackt people to spend a small/big amount of money for the fundraiser?

 

6) Is it feasible to guarantee high quality and consistency of backer-created content if you have 50, 100, 500 people who contributed to the fundraiser?

 

 

IMO it's much more important to have solid answers to all these questions before you even start thinking about how you will create stuff in detail - if you still want to do that at all.

 

 

I can only share  my experiences with the OOoE with you. The order has now more than 700 members, all of them spending at least 8 bucks on top of their actual tier. That's at least 5600 bucks in total that went into the development of PoE. That doesn't sound like much money but it's a pretty great achievement that we gathered so many fans who get nothing of substance in return. I personally think that was maybe even its biggest selling point. We (the people who founded the order and were most active to market it) concentrated on keeping the whole thing as simple and as low-key as possible, guaranteeing that both everybody gets the concept quickly and we had a short and on-point message to market. We posted the same, simple message a few times a day in the kickstarter comments and made a thread in the forum here and that was pretty much it. The biggest fun with the order was that people were primarily enthusiastic about creating a community of hardcore fans and of finding ways to dedicate themselves to the project while getting nothing in return apart from a game that might come out a little bit better. That's what I'd love to see for PoE2 as well and that was imo the original idea when Fluffy came up with the 8 bucks (which was directly copied from the order who invented the 8 bucks as both a reference to the symbol for Eternity and and as a small enough amount to be attractive to as many people as possible).

 

But I get the idea that you'd rather want to go for a fundraiser approach like the Codex and the Watch did back in the day, with only a very limited amount of people involved, pledging a much higher amount of money individually and getting "real" rewards in return. That's not my preferred way of doing it but ok, why not. I'd like to point out though that the fundraising efforts in both Codex and Watch were initiated and organized by the "top management" of the communities and long-standing members who knew each other pretty well and who also had the technical expertise and the respective backend to come up with a technical solution for the fundraisers. You hardly pay a 100 bucks or more without trusting the person or organization receiving it. That's a bit different to this approach here with individual people from the "basis" talking about a fundraiser without having any technical means (at least none I've seen so far) to get it really started and running and without having any clear strategy some people are really dedicated to. So my advice is: Find some simple rules and get the thing started. Everything else can be discussed once the time has come.

 

Anyway, if you get this fundraiser running in any way you see fit, please do it. The more money Obsidian gets, the better, no matter the method. And maybe, I'd be part of it again, but it's not really important. And even more important, don't let me spoil the fun for you, I'm just one grumpy dude. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by LordCrash

[Fluffle]

I can only share  my experiences with the OOoE with you. The order has now more than 700 members, all of them spending at least 8 bucks on top of their actual tier. That's at least 5600 bucks in total that went into the development of PoE. That doesn't sound like much money but it's a pretty great achievement that we gathered so many fans who get nothing of substance in return. I personally think that was maybe even its biggest selling point. We (the people who founded the order and were most active to market it) concentrated on keeping the whole thing as simple and as low-key as possible, guaranteeing that both everybody gets the concept quickly and we had a short and on-point message to market. We posted the same, simple message a few times a day in the kickstarter comments and made a thread in the forum here and that was pretty much it. The biggest fun with the order was that people were primarily enthusiastic about creating a community of hardcore fans and of finding ways to dedicate themselves to the project while getting nothing in return apart from a game that might come out a little bit better. That's what I'd love to see for PoE2 as well and that was imo the original idea when Fluffy came up with the 8 bucks (which was directly copied from the order who invented the 8 bucks as both a reference to the symbol for Eternity and and as a small enough amount to be attractive to as many people as possible).

 

This idea is still ongoing. Currently we are planning to do both, separately and independently from each other.

See Aarik's post where he speaks of "Option A" and "Option B" (I copied that post in the opening post of this thread).

 

So "Option A" has in no way been ruled out. Aarik already confirmed that it was absolutely doable.

We can found a "pirate order" that would be the equivalent of the "Obsidian Order of Eternity".

 

That is independent from funding the pirate crew and ship in the game.

[LordCrash]

This idea is still ongoing. Currently we are planning to do both, separately and independently from each other.

 

[...]

 

We can found a "pirate order" that would be the equivalent of the "Obsidian Order of Eternity".

 

That is independent from funding the pirate crew and ship in the game.

Ok, got it. In this case, please continue.

 

I will wait and see what happens. And when I like what I see I might join in.

Edited February 1, 2017 by LordCrash

[Fluffle]

I think it's time that we get a separate thread for each option, Option A and Option B.

 

Otherwise it can be confusing too easily.

[Aarik D]

I think it's time that we get a separate thread for each option, Option A and Option B.

 

Otherwise it can be confusing too easily.

I agree on starting a new thread. Just awaiting on the Pirate Order name, so we can go ahead and make the badge for you guys!

[Fluffle]

 

I think it's time that we get a separate thread for each option, Option A and Option B.

 

Otherwise it can be confusing too easily.

I agree on starting a new thread. Just awaiting on the Pirate Order name, so we can go ahead and make the badge for you guys!

 

 

Yep, that is exactly the problem. We're back to square one in need of a good name xD

[LordCrash]

@Fluffle

 

There were already some good suggestions imo. Why not gathering them and making a new thread with a poll for the name? Or you just decide which one to take.

Edited February 1, 2017 by LordCrash

[Karkarov]

I was partial to "The Obsidian Marauders" or "Deadfire Marauders".

[Aarik D]

Hey guys,

 

Got an update from Adam in regard of all of your questions. I hope I did my best to you all of your questions answered. Sorry if the questions are out of order or seem disconnected, I just game him a huge list of questions. 

 

"At the end of the day, the Pillars design team is going to design the content - this isn't a way for our backers to pay to play designer in the game. Names and equipment of the pirates, and some basic ship customization is included in the tier.

 

In the first campaign, we have a phone call with the primary backer and the designer to set up the idea. This is usually about an hour of time to coordinate the design of the pirate party and any other details. There will be a lot of back and forth through email as well.

 

The crew will be a minor encounter in the world, and will be designed by one of our area designers. The location and how it's integrated will be up to the design team. Most likely it will be a pirate area of the game. However, if you have ideas on where you would like it and any story surrounding the party please send it our way and we can do our best to keep the flavor of your ideas intact. We treat backer content in the same way that we treat other ideas that come from the team - they have to be vetted and fit within the scope and limitations of the area that is being designed. However, with that said, again, we will work with you to make sure that your ideas show through in the pirate ship and party.

 

Feel free to equip the party with any standard items / weapons from Pillars of Eternity 1. If you have other ideas for gear, feel free to include those as well, but we can't make any guarantees that non-standard items will make it in.

 

If you want to include the special item as well just make sure to specify what item it is when it comes to send in your design to the team.

 

You will have some customization of the ship within reason - it will have to fit within our customization guidelines that we will be releasing at a later date, and we will contact the backer to work with them.

 

What kind of ship will it be? It's going to be a pirate ship.

 

You can work with the design team on the loot gathered and dropped by the pirates."

 

Again, if you guys have additional questions, please feel free to ask away!

[Aarik D]

Also, created a new thread for you all for Option A to decide on a name for your Pirate Order!

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91356-community-pirate-order-unique-forum-badge/

[Karkarov]

Okay, I have sent out PM's to everyone who has appeared to express interest in the "Option B" AKA - fund a pirate ship and crew.  Once I hear back from at least a good percentage of those people we will proceed, or call off the option B altogether.

[Osvir]

Hey guys,

 

Got an update from Adam in regard of all of your questions. I hope I did my best to you all of your questions answered. Sorry if the questions are out of order or seem disconnected, I just game him a huge list of questions.

 

"At the end of the day, the Pillars design team is going to design the content - this isn't a way for our backers to pay to play designer in the game. Names and equipment of the pirates, and some basic ship customization is included in the tier.

 

In the first campaign, we have a phone call with the primary backer and the designer to set up the idea. This is usually about an hour of time to coordinate the design of the pirate party and any other details. There will be a lot of back and forth through email as well.

 

The crew will be a minor encounter in the world, and will be designed by one of our area designers. The location and how it's integrated will be up to the design team. Most likely it will be a pirate area of the game. However, if you have ideas on where you would like it and any story surrounding the party please send it our way and we can do our best to keep the flavor of your ideas intact. We treat backer content in the same way that we treat other ideas that come from the team - they have to be vetted and fit within the scope and limitations of the area that is being designed. However, with that said, again, we will work with you to make sure that your ideas show through in the pirate ship and party.

 

Feel free to equip the party with any standard items / weapons from Pillars of Eternity 1. If you have other ideas for gear, feel free to include those as well, but we can't make any guarantees that non-standard items will make it in.

 

If you want to include the special item as well just make sure to specify what item it is when it comes to send in your design to the team.

 

You will have some customization of the ship within reason - it will have to fit within our customization guidelines that we will be releasing at a later date, and we will contact the backer to work with them.

 

What kind of ship will it be? It's going to be a pirate ship.

 

You can work with the design team on the loot gathered and dropped by the pirates."

 

Again, if you guys have additional questions, please feel free to ask away!

So basically, we're allowed to design something and present it, but it's a low chance that most of it has room & time for development?

 

I.e. we get the priveledge of presenting something that Obsidian will look at guaranteed? (Unlike random suggestions/ideas on the forum)

 

EDIT:

- Basic gear for the crew, can we name a sword for, example, the Captain? (No properties, just a name, like, a standard Rapier but has the name "Beestinger"~)

- Any chance we could give a hint to a treasure that the pirates are/were looking for, and find it somewhere in the game? (Valuables to sell/gems) "X marks the spot"~ e.g. we wouldn't "decide" where exactly, but only "there's treasure somewhere in the world, and these pirates were looking for it" (could maybe be combined with treasure quest that Obs already, presumably, have planned?)

Edited February 1, 2017 by Osvir

[rheingold]

Ok, I'd be interested. Someone in one of the threads mentioned Black Isle as part of the name. It might be cool to have the ships name having a connection to one of the earlier games.

Edited February 1, 2017 by rheingold

[Karkarov]

At this point before we proceed I would like to hear at least some general answers to what Osvir posted above.  There were backer tiers where you get to help design what I assume is a small island at the same price point.  This seems to be "you get to help create a one off minor encounter and have some input on what the ship looks like".

It just doesn't feel very compelling compared to the other 5k tiers, and does seem very similar to the Adventuring parties of Eternity 1.  All but one of which turned into simple bounty missions where the adventurers had no dialog, and were not particularly memorable.

[Aarik D]

At this point before we proceed I would like to hear at least some general answers to what Osvir posted above.  There were backer tiers where you get to help design what I assume is a small island at the same price point.  This seems to be "you get to help create a one off minor encounter and have some input on what the ship looks like".

 

It just doesn't feel very compelling compared to the other 5k tiers, and does seem very similar to the Adventuring parties of Eternity 1.  All but one of which turned into simple bounty missions where the adventurers had no dialog, and were not particularly memorable.

Will do Karkarov! I'll report back when I get more info.

[Aarik D]

Reporting in!

 

 

"It's very similar to the adventuring party from Pillars 1, but this time you get a ship as well. Again, we will work with the primary backer to make sure all of their requests are considered, but ultimately we have the final call on what goes in the game.

 

For the sword, I recommend that you guys go ahead and design the items and we can see how to integrate them in. I would limit it to one unique item per pirate."

 

I know that you guys weren't too thrilled about the adventuring parties for the first game, but seeing how this is a community effort, I will do my best to make sure your guys voices are heard if you do decide to back the pirate crew/ship. Because I think you guys are awesome and are the ones that keep this game alive, however, I cannot make any guarantees or want other backers to feel like only you guys (the community) are getting special treatment.