Need help with picking class for Main Character..

[Isaea]

Hey guys!

 

So here is the case. So far i finished the game twice - first time at the very beginning in vanilla Pillars of Eternity and second time when White March part I launched. 

 

A lot changed since then - i tried various builds, various classes usually played for couple days to see what they are capable of.

 

I would like to play one more time to close the story and check what happened with White March in part II.

 

I'm struggling with the class choice though. Usually i have concept in my mind, play with it and end up dissatisfied with choice i made.

 

I always play on PoTD with expert mode on for immersion and overall better experience. Plus i try to take companions I haven't played yet with for fresh dialogues etc. Unfortunately some of the classes seems to be "must" when playing on PoTD - i.e priest or wizard.

 

So here are couple ideas i had in mind, maybe you guys will be able to sort this one outfor me.

 

First of all i don't really like min maxing - i like my builds to be viable and strong with good synergy not necessarilly top dps, broken or OP.

I'm going to play with in game companions and i don't like to min/max.

 

I had three classes in my mind.

 

First one - Priest of Magran - i generally like the idea of Inquisitor that uses Arquebuss and Abydon's Hammer. I've heard priest are really strong and generally this choice would suit me well if not for two things - I'm kinda afraid that later on in the game i won't really have time to use any of those weapons as i will either way end up buffing my team all the time, or just cast spells that will be much more powerfull than what i can deal with traditional weapons, and when i will go in melee to hit with hammer i will quickly die because of how squishy priest is.

 

Second one - Paladin - probably Goldpact Knight. It's a continuation of idea above - Crusader type with hammer and arbalest or something. More sturdy, has nice damage with FoD on and has great synergy with what i had in mind for him - buffing his +burn damage, casting fire scrolls when needed, resistant to various CC, high defense good single target damage. The thing is i just love the look of tempered helm. I love the idea of "on kill effects" that are on it + synergy with paladin abilities that pretty much do the same - whenever i kill an enemy i buff people around me. The only downside is that i actually have to deal killing blow. I'm not sure if i can build him so he will be able to do that most of time without having to micromanage to much or delay killing monsters only to allow him to kill them.

 

Last but not least - something totally different that i had in mind for months now - cipher Witch Hunter. A guy who uses two guns - pistol and blunderbuss. Maybe twin sting later on. Thanks to high perception able to tell when people are lying, with good mechanic to maintain his guns in good shape, disarming traps or setting them when needed. Generally everything that a good Witch Hunter should have to see through various disguises and illusions.

 

When comes to stats i usually go with 16-17 Might and Intellect and rotate the third stat - on priest i went with dexterity to reduce time needed for each action, on paladin and cipher perception because i wanted to crit a lot to land those "killing blows".

 

I wanted to play with Zahua as main tank, Pallegina as offtank and Sagani as Range DD only because i haven't played with them yet so their stories are fresh. I know playing without a wizard, priest or druid is kinda suicide but i played with Aloth, Durance and Hiravias couple times already. I can take Durance one more time - i don't mind having one guy that i already played with but that's just about it.

 

Anyone can share some words of wisdom on those classes?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Isaea

[Remix]

I would recommend a cipher or druid. A good mix of debuffs, cc and offensive spells.

[rheingold]

Priests and wizards are nice but hardly compulsory even on PoTD. I normally give them a miss. I'd probably try to avoid doubling a class up unless you take a chanter in which case having 2 works well. So I'd first look at which companions you want to take and then choose from one of the other classes.

 

But going with your picks, priests, paladins and ciphers are all pretty solid, you can't really go wrong. Again, if you are taking Pellagina I'd avoid paladin. Some people swear by having more than one paladin but I find it boring and a waste of a slot. (Nothing against the class, it's a great class, just having 2 seems a waste.)

[Isaea]

Hmm.. I guess I'll go with Cipher then. Range DPS is a little bit easier for me to manage on PoTD + since i won't take Hiravias nor Aloth i will need someone to debuff or damage in AoE manner. Should have nice synergy between companions I'm going with. Zahua as main tank, Pallegina as offtank, Durance for buffs and off DD and Sagani as regular DD. Will see how it will turn out.

[Remix]

Ciphers pair really well with chanters. Ciphers have spells that require companions to latch onto in a beam-like blast. Chanters can summon creatures into the back lines of foes. Ciphers can cast their beams onto the summons and do some insane damage really quickly and without disrupting your battle formations.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Remix

[Raven Darkholme]

If you played twice and haven't used cipher yet, definitely go for it.

In my opinion the most active class in game, not only because you avoid per rest abilities, but also because attacking with weapons actually gives you your resource for casting.

 

I wouldn't use pistol + arbalest and nothing else.

Either switch out one of them with a bow or get a third weapon slot (my personal recommendation) and put a bow there.

Later with Twin Sting it's different, but the reload times on pistol and ab are huge.

[rheingold]

Haven't played cipher a huge amount but when I have I found that dual wielding seems to be the most fun and efficient way of getting focus. (And the riskiest, but that's fun)

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah I like dual wielding, too but early game it's not that easy, later on you can have huge defences on paladin level because of borrowed instinct, but early game you need your focus for casting, since you don't build as much, getting a burst from 2 heavy ranged weapons is often quite good, but another thing you can do is take 2 melee weapons in the third weapon slot instead of a bow.

 

edit: oh and borrowed instinct is a level 5 power anyway, so you get it at level 9.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[KDubya]

Two Paladins are great on a team. You get four FoD strikes, four LoH, two auras, two Sacred Immolations, and four reinforcing exhortations. They make for a really solid core of a team. Add in a Chanter for the regen auras and chants and you have all the bases covered and the rest of the team can be whatever you want.

 

That said, you can't go wrong with a Cipher. If you want guns I'd suggest going with a Pirate Island Aumaua with a pistol, blunderbuss and a single sabre. You can shoot, shoot and then use all that focus, then wade into the flanks and slice and dice which will generate focus faster than any sort of ranged attack. The single weapon will help a lot with accuracy issues, especially early.

[rheingold]

I guess my issue with having 2 of a class in a party is based more around the fact that I get bored - it's less about power. Pillars has some great classes and I have enough of a problem picking 6 so it just seems a waste for me to double up. But yeah, from a power perspective there is an argument for it.

[Raven Darkholme]

Especially since paladin is not the most interesting class out there.

[Isaea]

So, i tried Cipher - it's really great class with very powerful spells - especially paralyze - however it doesn't really seem to fit my playstyle. Mainly because i wanted to use 2 pistols - and two pistols only. I also play with Sagani and Durance in range. 3 of us use piercing type of damage. And as you can imagine it's a pain in the ass whenever there is an enemy with high defense on this type of damage.

 

So i thought i would like to try something else - a sturdy melee with some crushing damage preferably two handed + ranged weapon when needed. I already have tank and offtank so i don't really want to build another guy with sword and board. Which class would you recommend for that role? I was thinking fighter, paladin or barbarian. I would like something that strikes hard and crits often not necessarily fast. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Isaea

[Boeroer]

Monk with The Long Pain. It's crushing, it works in melee and ranged combat, it has awesome base damage, it's fast and it works with nearly all monk abilities even when their description says they are melee only. And they scale like crazy. A lot of fun!

[Isaea]

I presume the Long Pain works only with fists attacks right? So i fight mostly with fists and wear heavy armor?

[Ben No.3]

Long pain is a summoned weapon, it replaced whatever you have equipped (I think... Been a while) And since it is a ranged weapon I personally would recommend wearing very little armour to keep your attack speed very high.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Remix]

Barbarian with two handed weapons is always fun. Their inate ability, carnage, is well implemented - it's basically an AOE melee class.

[Boeroer]

@Ben: right. You can wear heavy armor though. The Long Pain works ranged and in melee. Its attack speed is that of fists (fast), it's dual wielding and works with 2 weapon style and you'll have Swift & Lightning Strikes. You don't need Penetrating Shot or anything to slow you down because the base damage is very high, easily overcoming DR. Thus your attack speed is even great in heavy armor. You can alternate between melee and ranged seemlessly and effordlessly once The Long Pain were summoned. They last a long time and only cost 2 wounds. So it's best to start in melee and then retreat and fire from range or take out caster in the back row or kill swarmers quickly.

If you want deeper info about the Long Pain you can read the Witch Doctor build. There are all the infos around it and how it can be used: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/87160-class-build-the-witch-doctor-mid-ranged-dps-monk-disabler/

You don't need to follow that build. Just siphon the knowledge around the Long Pain to see if it's something you would like. It comes at lvl 7 - so before that you would play him a a normal monk (which is also a lot of fun). Like barbs, monks can be very powerful AoE melee damage dealers with Torment's Reach. But barbs really suck at ranged combat.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Boeroer

[Isaea]

Soo - i tested out various build. I tried monk - despite the fact it's really powerful build i can't get myself into it. Roleplay wise. I also tried Boeroer's melee Ranger. And absolutely love it! Unfortunately i already play with Sagani and there are often situations when i can't DPS because of how many people are in melee already. There is me plus my pet, Eder as main tank, Pallegina as offtank and Sagani's pet. I'm playing without Wizard and Druid so i realized i'm lacking some sort of mob ruler. The thing is i hate playing a mage in every single game. 

I always prefered Knight in shining armor over squishy guy in a robe. Fortunately Pillars of Eternity is one of those games you can build pretty much anything you want - so i came up with idea i would like to try a different approach to wizard. 

 

I played Diablo 3 some time ago and fell in love with Horadrim Mage design. But i don't really know how to build one. It's either wizard or cipher. I would like to play close to the frontline, perhaps with some sort of reach weapon. As wizard i would like to fight with conjured weapons - i really like the design of Concelhaut Parasitic Staff. Also later on it is very versatlie with Citzal Spirit Lancer or Caedebald Blackbow. Normally i would probably use Gyrd Haewanes Stenes and Greenstone Staff.

 

Cipher on the other hand - no idea if it is possible to build him around two hander. I love Pollaxes though i know they are kinda crap in this game. Is cipher in melee without shield or 2 one handers viable?

 

Here is the Horadrim design i was talking about ; 

 

[Remix]

A melee/tank mage with some crowd control is really powerful in Pillars.

 

Use spells that increase deflection, concentration, action speed and conjure weapons as early as possible in encounters.

 

You will probably want to put attribute points into might, con, res and maybe some into Per and/or dex. You will be able to afford to have average-ish intellegence since a lot of the protection spells that wizards have already last a decent amount of time.

[Isaea]

I thought of something like this :

 

MIG ~16 (19-20 with any +3/4 item quite easy any headgear ring or belt will do )

CON 10 ( 13 with +3 Belt of Consitution)

DEX 10 ( 14 with +4 Viettro Formal Footwear )

PER 16 ( 20 with +4 Mantle of Excavator )

INT 16 ( 20 with +4 Gwyn's Band of Union)

RES 10 ( 16 with +3 Kerdhed Pames and +3 Gyrd Haewanes Stenes )

 

Looks pretty solid i think - i don't want to tank anything i just don't want to die to a single hit or so. Mind you i already have 3 people ( okay 1 Human, 1 Godlike and a fox ;D ) in melee and often fight in corridors etc. Not sure about talents though. I've heard Blast and Penetrating Blast is pretty strong. So i'll probably pick those. Not sure about Arcane Veil and Hardened Veil. Putting two points into something that i can use only two times per rest sounds like a waste. I thought of putting 4 points into elemental passives - like Secrets of Rime, Scion of Flame etc. as it will not only increase my damage with most spells by 20% but also increase DR by 5 on each of respective elements. Not sure about the rest.. Superior Deflection or Weapon Focus? Wizard is one of those classes i completely don't know how to build.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Isaea

[Remix]

That should work. You'll be able to hold your own with defensive buffs should anyone get past your front line or in situations where you can't kite so easily.

 

Cc spells will work well with the 16 per so you're good there. And the high might will benefit long lasting Aoe spells like the various walls, noxious cloud and other chillfog-esque spells. Maybe take interrupting blows at some point to further optimize those spells for cc.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Remix

[JerekKruger]

I thought of something like this :

 

MIG ~16 (19-20 with any +3/4 item quite easy any headgear ring or belt will do )

CON 10 ( 13 with +3 Belt of Consitution)

DEX 10 ( 14 with +4 Viettro Formal Footwear )

PER 16 ( 20 with +4 Mantle of Excavator )

INT 16 ( 20 with +4 Gwyn's Band of Union)

RES 10 ( 16 with +3 Kerdhed Pames and +3 Gyrd Haewanes Stenes )

 

Looks decent. One point though, I don't think you'll get the +3 Resolve from Gyrd Haewanes Stenes when wielding any other weapon (this includes summoned weapons). This is a minor detail, but I thought it worth mentioning.

 

Looks pretty solid i think - i don't want to tank anything i just don't want to die to a single hit or so. Mind you i already have 3 people ( okay 1 Human, 1 Godlike and a fox ;D ) in melee and often fight in corridors etc. Not sure about talents though. I've heard Blast and Penetrating Blast is pretty strong. So i'll probably pick those. Not sure about Arcane Veil and Hardened Veil. Putting two points into something that i can use only two times per rest sounds like a waste. I thought of putting 4 points into elemental passives - like Secrets of Rime, Scion of Flame etc. as it will not only increase my damage with most spells by 20% but also increase DR by 5 on each of respective elements. Not sure about the rest.. Superior Deflection or Weapon Focus? Wizard is one of those classes i completely don't know how to build.

 

Whilst you might not want to Tank, if you're going in melee you will want to invest some points into defensive spells otherwise the AI will target you and you will go down quickly. Luckily, Wizards have a brilliant suite of self buffing defensive spells to choose from so you should be fine. At lower levels you might need to hang back and use a wand or other ranged weapon, but as time goes by you should find it easier and easier to be in melee.

 

One of the good things about a melee Wizard is that it's fairly easy for you to switch to a ranged combatant when there is limited room for melee: simply have a second grimoire filled a more ranged suite of spells for such situations.

 

Blast and Penetrating Blast are good, but probably only if you plan on using Implements (Wands, Rods and Sceptres) a fair amount. I can understand how you feel about Arcane and Hardened Veil: I hate per rest as I always keep them for a more important situation and/or forget I even have them. That said, in the early game (when you are most fragile) they are a great panic button so you could take them then, and retrain out of them later.

 

Personally I wouldn't take more than two elemental talents (and usually just one). For the Wizard, Secrets of Rime is my favourite choice, since they have an absolutely great selection of frost spells. Taking all four seems overkill, and the +5 DR is not enough when it actually matters, and not needed when it's enough.

 

If you plan to do any damage with a melee weapon (and with Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff and, later, Citzal's Spirit Lance you'll definitely want to) then you should definitely take a Weapon Focus Talent. It actually doesn't matter that much which one, since both the Parasitc Staff and the Spirit Lance are part of the "Universal Weapon Pool" which means they benefit from all Weapon Focus Talents (only once, you can't get +12 Accuracy by taking two). The same is true of Soulbound items by the way, so Gyrd Haewanes Stenes will get +6 Accuracy regardless, therefore you'll probably want to choose the talent based on whatever other weapon you're holding.

 

As well as Weapon Focus, you'll probably want to take Two-Handed Style for the +20% damage with summoned weapons. This is particularly great with Spirit Lance given the AoE component and high base damage.

 

Apart from that, Superior Deflection and Bear's(?) Fortitude can't hurt. Perhaps Talents which improve melee damage too?

[AlexDeLarge]

Hey, maybe i can help. This is the wizard i used in my completed frozen crown run, she performed exceptionally well:

 

Wood Elf Scientist

 

18 Might

5 Con

15 Dex

19 Per

18 Int

3 Res

 

1. -

2. Blast

3. -

4. Interrupting Blows

5. -

6. Penetrating Blast

7. -

8. Envenomed Strike (you can respec this later into Secrets of Rime)

9. -

10. Weapon Focus

11. -

12. Apprentice Sneak Attack

13. -

14. Marksman

15. -

16. Bloody Slaughter

 

Weapons: Gyrd Haewanes Stenes

Armor: Starlit Garb

Head: Gharod's Chorus -preservation (Might bonus)

Cape: Lilith's Shawl (Per bonus)

Gloves: Gloves of Manipulation (Dex bonus)

Belt: Girdle of Eotun Constitution (Con bonus)

Boots: Boots of Speed

Rings: Ring of Deflection, Ring of Protection

Edited November 26, 2016 by AlexDeLarge

[Isaea]

Hey guys, really appreciate all the great ideas you shared with me regarding Wizard.

 

i'll probably drop the ideas of putting 4 talents into Elemental Mastery spells and just go with one maybe two. Secrets of Rime and Scion of Flame seem to be good choice. I'll decide later on. I do realize I'l lose +3 Res on Gyrd when switching weapons - i don't mind really - still valuable out of combat situations in order to reach dialogue options through 16 Resolve that i can't get otherwise. Plus maxed out it's insanse boost to ACC - that wand has like 21 or something. I'll drop some AoE spells, kill as much as i can and then go into melee with Citzal and beat the sh!t out of things that survived initial slaughter.

 

Interrupting Blows, Weapon Focus, Bloody Slaughter and Two Handed Style sounds great - i'll probably focus on these. I'll figure out something later on.

 

Regarding survival - where does Wizard defense come from? His damage as i presume comes from debuffing with things like Blind etc. then some talents, buffing myself with Eldritch Aim ( does it stack with other +ACC buffs like potions and Priest spells?  ), Focused Gaze and DAoM ( does +50% increased attack speed work with Citzal? ). What about the defense? Llengarth Safeguard? What are the crucial defense spell i should go into melee with?

[prototype00]

Re: Defences

 

Low level, the spells Wizards Double, Mirrored Image and Infuse with vital essence gets you through a lot (infuse is good as it actually lets you tank Con a bit and still have as much Hp as the off tank).

 

You will also want to get the Veil talent a an emergency button (with average Res, you end up with 100+ deflection at level 3)

 

But this I've found is usually contingency stuff (later on with more spell slots you start casting it as prep), usually you are second rank slaughtering foes with your Parasitic Staff, safely out of most melee harms way. Be careful around ogres though.