Overbearing Guard.

[Torm51]

Haven't used the talent yet and I'm looking for a Fighter/disrupter build for my second tank (I understand monks do this well but I already have a monk!). Is it any good? In the long time that I have been playing I get some disengagement attacks but the AI really doesn't like to disengage unless it's a barb with Wild Sprint whose unegagable or a monk type. I mean it sounds really cool but how useful is it? I do get disengage attacks against the AI but not that often.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Torm51

[nem0]

I have had an idea but I haven't tested it(I know that doesn't really answer anything in your question, but figuring it out may help).  Does anyone know if certain push abilities or anything that breaks engagement trigger disengagement procs?  I ask because if so it might be possible to force overbearing as well as extra on hit attacks from say starcaller or spell steal of acuan giamas.  If it does work then using spell pushes like cleansing/winter wind or the scath gwannek may be effective especially since fighters can naturally get extra engagement slots for triggering overbearing.  

[Loren Tyr]

Well, maybe you could turn him into a kind of engagement sponge, give him a bunch of additional engagement slots through talents/weapons and have him be the resident punching bag. Maybe invest more in PER and INT, rather than Might, have him dual wield to get an additional bite at knocking enemies out (assuming Disengagement = full attack, but I would think so; or maybe go one-handed, for extra accuracy and much added flair) and keeping them knocked out longer. Add some prone-inducing weapons as well, perhaps. 

 

Not sure how often you would get disengaged, but I'd see it more as a dual strategy: either they do disengage and get knocked out for their trouble; or they don't and you have a tight cluster of enemies trying to hit your sturdy fighter for all your other characters to aim at. Putting a barbarian with Tall Grass behind him would obviously be good for that; would probably a juicy target to break engagement for as well. And if Push indeed reliably triggers it as well, having a Druid cast some Winter Wind to blow everyone away would be quite funny as well.

 

Anyway, maybe it wouldn't be the most optimal build, but to me that just makes it all the more fun to get it to work nicely. 

[nem0]

I just tested with my druid using various push spells while my fighter was engaging enemies, it did not trigger any disengagement attack/overbearing. I don't believe there is any reliable way to get them to trigger overbearing guard then which means it is more for lockdown on a small number of enemies and not offensive. I know it would be useful on enemies like fampyr who love to run straight for back line casters but most of fighters arsenal are about simply being unkillable or absorbing damage, I am not sure they could be a disrupter unless you count items like executioner's hood for aura's(maybe Dragon's Maw).

[FluxWing]

Does it have to be a build for a single character? Or can it be used in a build for a duo? 

 

What if you have a fighter with a hard hitting 2Hander in plate gathering up the enemies in front....but then there is a juicier target just passing by them just outside their range....

 

This other character would be a decoy tank, perhaps a rogue with low DR and low regular deflection, but instead stacking up "Defense while engaging" stats and movement increase.  Like cloth armor, boots of speed and cloak of withdrawal, and what not....

So this rogue, or perhaps more like a jester, or shadow dancer even, would be doing cartwheels around the fighter provoking the enemies to disengage, triggering "Overbearing guard", CC and damage.

 

A challenge would be to find the balance of preferred targets. If the rogue is too "tanky" the enemy AI will chose the fighter, so he has to be durable in a "slippery" way.

 

 

(Boeroer mentioned in a post he gave up the idea of a Riposte Rogue build, perhaps he can make a new dynamic duo with an Overbearing guard Fighter and a Riposte Rogue)

[Torm51]

I just tested with my druid using various push spells while my fighter was engaging enemies, it did not trigger any disengagement attack/overbearing. I don't believe there is any reliable way to get them to trigger overbearing guard then which means it is more for lockdown on a small number of enemies and not offensive. I know it would be useful on enemies like fampyr who love to run straight for back line casters but most of fighters arsenal are about simply being unkillable or absorbing damage, I am not sure they could be a disrupter unless you count items like executioner's hood for aura's(maybe Dragon's Maw).

Well more of a controller for when enemies pass my front line.  You have knockdown, Into the Fray, Overbearing  Guard (likely skip it as its unreliable I think) and Clear Out.  You can no doubt knock people around and keep your back line clean.

[Loren Tyr]

A pity about the push effects, though they can still be useful to push enemies that got past your fighter back into engagement range. Assuming the fighter re-engages quickly enough they'll either stick there again or trigger another Overbearing Guard attack. 

 

I agree it would be more of a controller type. The engagement hoarder + Overbearing Guard seems like an interesting direction to take it in, I think; the main think would obviously be soaking up engagement and tying a lot of melee enemies, the Overbearing Guard just makes him extra sticky. Especially if, as I'm assuming, when they are proned they're still close enough that the fighter re-engages them. In that case they can't just disengage and take the hit to go after your squishies anymore, unless the fighter actually misses (quite unlikely when dual wielding fast weapons). Would have to test that though, but I would think that that would have been the intention of the developers. 

 

Seems like fun to try this on a future playthrough, though probably with a hireling. I'd probably like more PER and INT than Edér has to offer, and my protagonists tend to be more glassy and cannon-shaped. I might finally try me a pike barbarian, with Tall Grass it'll be a slapstick fest of people falling down and getting up again!

[Blades of Vanatar]

Would a reach weapon on a second line melee 'er also get disengagement attacks?

[Loren Tyr]

No, engagement range of reach weapons is the same as regular melee weapons. They originally did have longer engagement, but that got kinda weird with enemies running past within reach distance getting hit with disengagement attacks rather too easily, so they changed it. 

[Odd Hermit]

I've messed around with it using just Eder, which is suboptimal. I think it works better with a reach weapon. Organize characters like this:

 

Sturdy melee in front. Paladins, Monks, other Fighters, whatever.

Quarstaff (Llawran's -> Wend-Walker) Overbearing Guard Fighter

Squishies in back.

 

Optimally, use +Engagement talents/items, but also a +Move Speed item helps a lot. And as much accuracy as possible of course. Play as an interceptor. This makes you considerably more flexible IMO than a tank Overbearing Guard fighter because you're less bogged down by being part of the front line and can properly protect casters/ranged against rushing melee types.

[MaxQuest]

Unfortunately push effects do not cause disengagement attacks. They break engagement first.

 

unless it's a barb with Wild Sprint whose unegagable

Hmm, are you sure? The tooltip doesn't read "immune to engagement".

But: "not stopped by Engagement; +12 when dissengaging; +2 speed", i.e. enemies still try to hit you.

 

I mean it sounds really cool but how useful is it? I do get disengage attacks against the AI but not that often.

Against simple enemies, in the fights that do not require cc, it's not really useful, because majority of enemies are quite sticky to those whom they already have engaged.

 

But it is quite handy in the following situations:

- enemies with spells/abilities that have special targetPreference. For example a shade: every 15s it will try to apply Draining Freeze to the nearby member that has lowest frost DR. In this case it could try to disengage, and overbearing could potentially stop it.

- hard cc effects (stun, pron, etc) do break engagement. Aside from special abilities, enemies are usually sticking to those whom they are already attacking. But after cc ends, and they are not engaged yet with anyone a target update will be made. Overbearing helps here too.

- you can force disengagement attacks via baiting. Imagine few enemies have decided to engage your barbarian. Bring your fighter closer, such that he could engage several of them. And let the barb move few meters away on the wild sprint. Enemies will try to follow him, and will get disengagement attacks from the fighter.

Edited May 24, 2016 by MaxQuest