Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear RELEASED

[hamskii]

So according to RPG Codex posters, the new Torment novella is "very anti-SJW", and has a line in it that appears to be referencing the "cuck" meme (I don't personally see it, but whatever). I'm sure everyone will be appropriately outraged about this apparent popular culture reference making into a video game-related product, right?

 

I'm being sarcastic, obviously. People will ignore it, and excuse it when it does get brought up. Because the problem never was *gasp* popular culture being referenced in video games, it was that it mentioned GamerGate specifically, and that was what made GamerGate engage in a campaign of intimidation with the eventual result of getting the developers to self-censor (which is ironic, given GamerGate's supposed anti-censorship bent, but not surprising). This, on the other hand, supposedly references "SJW's", who despite being alleged to be some sort of shadowy group who controls all media, are the right-wing's favourite punching bag at the moment.

 

EDIT: Not to mention the clear political intent of the writers, if it is so "anti-SJW". God, don't you just hate it when people force political messages (e.g. "gay and trans people exist") down your throats? No doubt any minute now this forum will raise its voice in a chorus of condemnation.

Edited May 2, 2016 by hamskii

[Zoraptor]

You know, it is possible that it's different sets of people doing the complaining. There's certainly no shortage of people on, say, the Codex who hate Fallout 2 because it has popular references/ memes that were put in nearly twenty years ago and they think those don't fit the serious business of Fallout.

 

Plus, it's Roguey; and cuckold is an actual word with an actual meaning- from Middle English, so it's been around centuries. It didn't spring into existence with GG or Gearbox writers.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

So according to RPG Codex posters, the new Torment novella is "very anti-SJW", and has a line in it that appears to be referencing the "cuck" meme (I don't personally see it, but whatever). 

 

(...)

 

EDIT: Not to mention the clear political intent of the writers, if it is so "anti-SJW". God, don't you just hate it when people force political messages (e.g. "gay and trans people exist") down your throats? No doubt any minute now this forum will raise its voice in a chorus of condemnation.

 

 

That's... not really a reference to the "cuck" meme. Seems like regular ol' codexian confirmation bias in action.

 

Honestly, considering how explicitly "SJW-friendly" the source material (ie. the tabletop game) is, with fairly even-handed illustrations and the text explicitly calling out that cishet people aren't considered to be "the default" on the Ninth World, I'd be honestly surprised if the novella indeed turned out to have such leanings.

[Volourn]

"campaign of intimidation"

 

CAMPAIGN OF INTIMIDATION.

 

 

"with the eventual result of getting the developers to self-censor (which is ironic, given GamerGate's supposed anti-censorship bent, but not surprising). This, on the other hand, supposedly references "SJW's", who despite being alleged to be some sort of shadowy group who controls all media, are the right-wing's favourite punching bag at the moment."

 

The irony of a SJW Nazi whining about this since they spend their days attacking and shaming and bullying women and getting them fired for having opposing views. LMAO

[Mamoulian War]

So according to RPG Codex posters, the new Torment novella is "very anti-SJW", and has a line in it that appears to be referencing the "cuck" meme (I don't personally see it, but whatever). I'm sure everyone will be appropriately outraged about this apparent popular culture reference making into a video game-related product, right?

 

I'm being sarcastic, obviously. People will ignore it, and excuse it when it does get brought up. Because the problem never was *gasp* popular culture being referenced in video games, it was that it mentioned GamerGate specifically, and that was what made GamerGate engage in a campaign of intimidation with the eventual result of getting the developers to self-censor (which is ironic, given GamerGate's supposed anti-censorship bent, but not surprising). This, on the other hand, supposedly references "SJW's", who despite being alleged to be some sort of shadowy group who controls all media, are the right-wing's favourite punching bag at the moment.

 

EDIT: Not to mention the clear political intent of the writers, if it is so "anti-SJW". God, don't you just hate it when people force political messages (e.g. "gay and trans people exist") down your throats? No doubt any minute now this forum will raise its voice in a chorus of condemnation.

If the writing will be on par on what I expect for my money, I will have absolutely no objections. If the writers will fail as much as miss Scott, I will be voicing my opinion very loud, because I have invested over 200 USD in the development of this game. I do nit give a ****, what "issues" they are trying to reference, as much as they will offer the quality of the writing on par of Planescape:Torment.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I can see where it would get old, but that is hardly a commentary on racism. It is a pretty standard joke.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? The other companions break the 4th wall because you're using the mouse. Another example is Minsc saying, "you point, I punch". How does racism and goblins looking the same equate to you using a computer mouse? You come across as arguing for arguments sake.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist II

[majestic]

That's... not really a reference to the "cuck" meme. Seems like regular ol' codexian confirmation bias in action.

 

Honestly, considering how explicitly "SJW-friendly" the source material (ie. the tabletop game) is, with fairly even-handed illustrations and the text explicitly calling out that cishet people aren't considered to be "the default" on the Ninth World, I'd be honestly surprised if the novella indeed turned out to have such leanings.

 

I have tried long and hard to find a reason to link Animal Farm - which the new Torment novella was very clearly inspired by - to being anti-SJW. It's a tale of a revolution gone wrong, something that has happened time and again in our history, for hundreds and hundreds of years before there even was a concept of social justice warriors or utterly stupid debates on the internet.

 

If anything the novel gets a leftist bent with the final few pages talking about a counter-revolution based on the fact that underneath all their differences, the three races involved in the novel once were - and in some way, still are - humans and that they have more in common than they have differences. A final push for justice and equality for everyone where the previous revolution failed utterly.

 

But hey, it's the Codex. Denial is not only a river in Egypt, after all.

[hamskii]

You know, it is possible that it's different sets of people doing the complaining. There's certainly no shortage of people on, say, the Codex who hate Fallout 2 because it has popular references/ memes that were put in nearly twenty years ago and they think those don't fit the serious business of Fallout.

 

Plus, it's Roguey; and cuckold is an actual word with an actual meaning- from Middle English, so it's been around centuries. It didn't spring into existence with GG or Gearbox writers.

You know, I thought this might be the first line of defence. "Cuckold" certainly isn't a new term, but it's undeniable that it has seen a sudden surge in popularity among the alt-right over the last year or so. According to Know Your Meme, its recent usage originated either with GamerGate or 4chan (around the same time). After that, it then traced a (rather telling) path through the alt-right, through Red Pill MRA/PUA types, white supremacists, and most recently to Donald Trump supporters.

 

I think what it shows is that there really is at least some level of overlap between GamerGate and all these other communities on the far right, and that what we are told is some kind of widespread spontaneous awakening against the "SJW menace" (Volourn: "Glad to see you are really starting to losing hard in society. More and more see your sect for what it really is") is actually just the same group of people, shouting the same thing under various guises.

 

That's... not really a reference to the "cuck" meme. Seems like regular ol' codexian confirmation bias in action.

 

Honestly, considering how explicitly "SJW-friendly" the source material (ie. the tabletop game) is, with fairly even-handed illustrations and the text explicitly calling out that cishet people aren't considered to be "the default" on the Ninth World, I'd be honestly surprised if the novella indeed turned out to have such leanings.

The fact that some people consider Numenera to be SJW propaganda didn't stop those same people complaining about the apparent incongruity between Siege of Dragonspear and its source material, despite the intervention of Ed Greenwood. So to those people, it shouldn't be beyond belief that T:ToN could stray away from its source material in terms of tone - if anything, it should be another source of outrage for them, because this was never about the representation of gay or trans people, but about the purity of the product...right?

 

FWIW, I do think it's totally possible that this was an intentional reference to "cuckservatives", given the term's recent increase in popularity. But I also think it's actually possible, if not likely, that it isn't. I haven't got around to reading the novella yet, so I can't and won't attest to whether or not it has an overall "anti-SJW" tone. But then, I don't believe that the inclusion of gay and trans characters in video games is a political statement either. What I'm trying to illustrate is, despite this being just as solid (which is to say, not very) as the entire nontroversy about Siege of Dragonspear, you won't see anywhere near as much the same level of shouting about it - and that's because this whole debacle was never about real-world references, or shoehorning political agendas, or anything like that. It was outrage about video game developers consciously trying to be inclusive in their cast of NPC's. And how sad is that?

Edited May 2, 2016 by hamskii

[majestic]

This is the "cuckold-meme" part of the novella (so if this quote does not fall under fair use feel free to remove it):
 

What could he say? How could he save them? How could he convince the sergeant they and
Parna were not friends?
He looked up at the Bayan, the answer suddenly in his head. "I'm not defending
him! I hate him! I'm defending her! She's my girl, but that rutting margr has been
trying to take her from me and now the silly bitch is going to get herself arrested for
trying to help him!"
Avza's eyes blazed. "What? Sahi! What are you saying?"
Parna was shocked too, but he smirked as he realized what Sahi was doing. "Oh
yeah?" he called. "Well, I hate you too, you sad little cuckold."

 

Yeah. This is totally related to the meme in a deliberate attempt by the author to include it. Oh for crying out loud.

 

Seeing how it is appropriate to the discussion:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRUh7sb4c-M

 

I'm guessing there too much muave around right now. Color me (un)impressed.

Edited May 2, 2016 by majestic

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

You know, it is possible that it's different sets of people doing the complaining. There's certainly no shortage of people on, say, the Codex who hate Fallout 2 because it has popular references/ memes that were put in nearly twenty years ago and they think those don't fit the serious business of Fallout.

 

Plus, it's Roguey; and cuckold is an actual word with an actual meaning- from Middle English, so it's been around centuries. It didn't spring into existence with GG or Gearbox writers.

You know, I thought this might be the first line of defence. "Cuckold" certainly isn't a new term, but it's undeniable that it has seen a sudden surge in popularity among the alt-right over the last year or so. According to Know Your Meme, its recent usage originated either with GamerGate or 4chan (around the same time). After that, it then traced a (rather telling) path through the alt-right, through Red Pill MRA/PUA types, white supremacists, and most recently to Donald Trump supporters.

 

 

On the other hand, it's a super useful term too, because much like "beta", as soon as I see someone use it unironically, I can rest assured that the person in question is an utter moron.

[Zoraptor]

 

I have tried long and hard to find a reason to link Animal Farm - which the new Torment novella was very clearly inspired by - to being anti-SJW.

 

 

Some people seriously believe that Eric Blair was a rightist. Considering he was self confessed hard left (Anarchist/ Marxist) and nobody who has actually read his material could doubt it there's no point arguing with them, they believe that people cannot criticise something they (basically) believe in so if he criticises the left he mus be right. Literal inverse SJWs, basically.

 

I think (imo, usual disclaimers apply) Orwell would dislike the SJW phenomenon a lot, but he'd certainly dislike the contortions that get to the usual argument for Animal Farm being about SJWs. Which basically involves it being a criticism of Stalinism (to them, Marxism) and SJWs being 'Cultural Marxists' therefore...

 

Bunch of morons.

 

novel passage

 

 

Yeah, Roguey selective quoting. Not exactly surprising. And he only got one bite out of it too, Codex might be a learning animal after all.

[Hurlshort]

 

I can see where it would get old, but that is hardly a commentary on racism. It is a pretty standard joke.

Did you even read what I wrote? The other companions break the 4th wall because you're using the mouse. Another example is Minsc saying, "you point, I punch". How does racism and goblins looking the same equate to you using a computer mouse? You come across as arguing for arguments sake.

I didn't say it was a great place to use the joke, I just said it is a pretty standard joke line. The original conversation about this goblin made it sound like he was pushing some political agenda. In reality he is just making a joke, even if it falls flat.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I didn't say it was a great place to use the joke, I just said it is a pretty standard joke line. The original conversation about this goblin made it sound like he was pushing some political agenda. In reality he is just making a joke, even if it falls flat.

 

So would you agree it's out of place?

[Hurlshort]

 

I didn't say it was a great place to use the joke, I just said it is a pretty standard joke line. The original conversation about this goblin made it sound like he was pushing some political agenda. In reality he is just making a joke, even if it falls flat.

 

So would you agree it's out of place?

 

 

Sure, but not for anything that has to do with racism.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Hurlshot

[Gromnir]

 

I didn't say it was a great place to use the joke, I just said it is a pretty standard joke line. The original conversation about this goblin made it sound like he was pushing some political agenda. In reality he is just making a joke, even if it falls flat.

 

So would you agree it's out of place?

 

in a bg game?

 

"Heavy Halberd: The Chesley Crusher

 

"First wielded by the much-maligned Ensign Chesley of the first exploratory fleet of Waterdeep, this famous halberd has been passed around for generations, but only to those strong enough to carry its considerable weight. The iron haft of this heavy polearm makes the weapon slow and unwieldy, but its sheer mass smashes skulls and shatters limbs."

 

alora lines: "C'mon, people, now, smile on your brother. Everybody get together, try to love one another right now."

 

"I don't think you're happy enough!  I'll teach you to be happy!

"Happy happy joy joy, happy happy joy joy!"

 

too young for that one?

 

 

khalid line: "Th-th-th-that's all, f-folks!" 

 

larry, daryl & daryl

 

etc.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Gromnir

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Of course Gromnir completely misses the point and is being intentionally obtuse. I'm not talking about breaking the 4th wall in any context or even with items. Gromnir either knows that or is trolling.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

So would you agree it's out of place?

 

Sure, but not for anything that has to do with racism.

 

So disregarding racism, why is it out of place?

[Gromnir]

Of course Gromnir completely misses the point and is being intentionally obtuse. I'm not talking about breaking the 4th wall in any context or even with items. Gromnir either knows that or is trolling.

obtuse is the kinda discrimination hp utilizes.  please, give us your reasoning rather than your conclusion.  why exact is a tongue-in-cheek goblin opine 'bout racism more out of place in a story set within the sword coast o' the forgotten realms than is peter of the north, a woodsman who "knows how to handle himself," lecturing us 'bout wood and subterranean trees?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

*chuckle*

 

Gromnir can't read. I gave my reasoning and context.

 

 

*snort*

Edited May 3, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

 

Gromnir can't read. I gave my reasoning and context.

 

 

*snort*

talk 'bout poor reading comprehension.

 

"please, give us your reasoning rather than your conclusion.  why exact is a tongue-in-cheek goblin opine 'bout racism more out of place in a story set within the sword coast o' the forgotten realms than is peter of the north, a woodsman who "knows how to handle himself," lecturing us 'bout wood and subterranean trees?"

 

again, why is the one more offensive than the other?  you explained your belief in the inappropriateness o' the goblin's opine, but why is such somehow worse than peter's bg wood handling? what is your reasoning?  simple identify that one is a violation o' the 4th wall *snort* is hardly perspicacious or enlightening. is conclusory at best.  

 

so, am gonna give you another shot, now that we helped you with the simple task o' reading, to enlighten us with the root and cause o' your discrimination.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

*groan*

 

Are you able to read my posts?

 

*chuckle*

 

Please read and quote my posts from the previous page and the reasoning is there.

 

*snort*

[Gromnir]

link or don't.  am not gonna read every one o' your posts looking for an answer... if one actual exists.  your mouse response observations?  that can't be it as such is non analogous, and is hardly providing any kinda rationale.  is another conclusion w/o reasoning.  you know where you believe the answer to be, so link, or don't.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Gromnir

[Hiro Protagonist II]

*groan*

 

Funny how you ignore my earlier posts on the previous page but then jump on to the later posts.

 

Ah, selective quoting.

 

*chuckle*

 

And refusing to quote the other posts.

 

*snort*

[Gromnir]

...

 

so, you don't want us to selective quote, but you want us to find your argument rather than providing?  HA! am not gonna argue for you.  am not gonna try and imagine a real explanation for you.  if you believe you responded to our query, then link... or don't.  don't would seem better in the absence o' anything to link.  

 

this is getting ridiculous.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

*chuckle*

 

No, I never said I didn't want you to selective quote. Poor tactic there Grommy.

 

I'm saying you are selective quoting and ignoring other posts from the previous page.

 

*snort*