"Glass Tsunami" - The Unbreakable Glass Cannon (preview fighter build)

[Dr <3]

I'm sure that che carries many scar Armor regeneration gets suppressed by costant/rapid recovery

[Braven]

Interesting build, have u tried this on Hard?

Not yet, but soloing I can just auto attack and win every battle without really trying at all, or any risk of death. It is only if I am purposely trying to die that details like extending the health pool even come into play. It will probably only matter for the hardest fights in the game like Adra Dragon and whatever waits for me in the expansion. By then DPS will be through the roof with 0 attack speed and sunder blows. If i wait until level 15, it will probably be a cake walk with triggered immunity. So, I really don't think hard would be much different. POTD will be the real test.

 

I am now thinking that sundering blows will be very powerful with 0 recovery attacking. If more endurance regeneration is desired with Unbending ability, the worst Ability is now Weapon specialization. 15% additive damage bonus is quite minor compared to the hundreds of damage sundering blows is capable of.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Boeroer]

I'm sure that che carries many scar Armor regeneration gets suppressed by costant/rapid recovery

It didn't in 2.03. What gets suppressed is the Mantle of the Dying Boar that would be quite good otherwise.

Other than that, it all stacked. Also Chanter's Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

 

Interesting build, have u tried this on Hard?

Not yet, but soloing I can just auto attack and win every battle without really trying at all, or any risk of death. It is only if I am purposely trying to die that details like extending the health pool even come into play. It will probably only matter for the hardest fights in the game like Adra Dragon and whatever waits for me in the expansion. By then DPS will be through the roof with 0 attack speed and sunder blows. If i wait until level 15, it will probably be a cake walk with triggered immunity. So, I really don't think hard would be much different. POTD will be the real test.

 

I am now thinking that sundering blows will be very powerful with 0 recovery attacking. If more endurance regeneration is desired with Unbending ability, the worst Ability is now Weapon specialization. 15% additive damage bonus is quite minor compared to the hundreds of damage sundering blows is capable of.

 

Sundering Blow is just 1/encounter against a single foe. I see how this is nice against bosses and stuff - but how is this helping you with a band of Ogres Druids for example?

Or did they buff it?

[Braven]

According to a video stream I watched recently, it was 2/encounter. It also benefits from the huge INT for a pretty long duration all together. With + 5 DR bypass from vulnerable attack, that is 13 total bypass. I will probably have two harder hitting speed weapons (I already got the wax quest) that doesn't have the 3 dr bypass enchantment of the rapier. Aren't there quite a few enemies with 13 or more DR besides boss enemies?

 

Also, if my math is right, the amulet + troll belt should be at least as good as cloak and bountiful healing (haven't found the bountiful belt yet to test). +10% more healing multipler is better than 1 additional base endurance, since it applies to all healing sources, and seems to apply multicatively (after) might.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Boeroer]

Just did a quick test and it still all stacks:

 

 

First Constant Recovery entry ist the original one of the Fighter plus Rapid Recovery (modifies Constant Rec.). The second one is from the cloak that also modifies Constant Recovery and gives a bonus of 2 points per tick (in this case 2.4 beause of MIG). Then below you see the armor with 1.2 (also MIG, base is 1). Nothing gets suppressed. The thing is that an item enchantment normally doesn't supresses an ability (as long it's not from spell holding or -binding). And because the cloak doesn't just add a regeneration effect but modifies the ability it stacks with the armor.

 

So altogether this guy with MIG 17 has a regeneration rate of 15 points per tick. With the Belt of Bountiful Healing and Survival bonus he will get 45% more out of this - meaning ~22 points per tick. You can boost that further with the new chanter's phrase that does +100% healing. That would be ~37 points per tick then. And you could also take Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits for even more healing (around ~46 per tick). That's if you have one chanter. Since Ancient Memory and stuff stacks, you could also add 5 chanters with that talents and have... I don't know how much points per tick but I think about 96 on your fighter. The chanters could also use Veteran's Recovery. They would not be like the fighter but also not bad. Maybe about ~50 points per tick. You see where this is going...  

 

[Boeroer]

According to a video stream I watched recently, it was 2/encounter. It also benefits from the huge INT for a pretty long duration all together. With + 5 DR bypass from vulnerable attack, that is 13 total bypass. I will probably have two harder hitting speed weapons (I already got the wax quest) that doesn't have the 3 dr bypass enchantment of the rapier. Aren't there quite a few enemies with 13 or more DR besides boss enemies?

 

Also, if my math is right, the amulet + troll belt should be at least as good as cloak and bountiful healing (haven't found the bountiful belt yet to test). +10% more healing multipler is better than 1 additional base endurance, since it applies to all healing sources, and seems to apply multicatively (after) might.

He? The belt does the same as the amulet. So you can have the cloak AND 25% healing multiplier. If you haven't found it yet the amulet is better than the cloak of course.

 

edit: Oh yes, 2/encounter - right. My bad. Still not good against big mobs as in PotD - but great against thick bosses. Maybe Ryona's Vambraces (+3 DR bypass) will be better than Gauntlets of Swift Action. But one would need to do some math (counting frames and so on) to be sure.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Braven]

If a player is against retraining late game to pick a different weapon focus/specialization/master for late game weapon, just avoiding those for other talents instead might be a good alternative. For example with our INT, aspirants mark is sometimes better than weapon focus anyways. -8 deflect vs +6 accuracy. Is it a fast cast? Interrupting blows would also be great option instead. I did find out that gallant focus does not stack with disciplined barrage.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Boeroer]

Right - Aspirant's Mark is great. It's AoE is big, it's duration long and you can cast it fast - foe only. And it also lowers reflex which might be nice for your buddies (if you have some). 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Boeroer

[Braven]

Yeah, it is clearly better with a party, I think. By not having weapon-specific talents, your character can safely switch weapons whenever you find a better one. For example, that speed flail could be used against enemies weak to crush damage. Also, this build does not particularly benefit from crit attacks anyways, so accuracy talents are not vital.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Braven]

Just did a quick test and it still all stacks:

 

 

First Constant Recovery entry ist the original one of the Fighter plus Rapid Recovery (modifies Constant Rec.). The second one is from the cloak that also modifies Constant Recovery and gives a bonus of 2 points per tick (in this case 2.4 beause of MIG). Then below you see the armor with 1.2 (also MIG, base is 1). Nothing gets suppressed. The thing is that an item enchantment normally doesn't supresses an ability (as long it's not from spell holding or -binding). And because the cloak doesn't just add a regeneration effect but modifies the ability it stacks with the armor.

 

So altogether this guy with MIG 17 has a regeneration rate of 15 points per tick. With the Belt of Bountiful Healing and Survival bonus he will get 45% more out of this - meaning ~22 points per tick. You can boost that further with the new chanter's phrase that does +100% healing. That would be ~37 points per tick then. And you could also take Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits for even more healing (around ~46 per tick). That's if you have one chanter. Since Ancient Memory and stuff stacks, you could also add 5 chanters with that talents and have... I don't know how much points per tick but I think about 96 on your fighter. The chanters could also use Veteran's Recovery. They would not be like the fighter but also not bad. Maybe about ~50 points per tick. You see where this is going...

Chanter is insane - that is sick.

 

Do I understand right that the troll belt does not stack with the Scars armor? If so, I agree with cloak+bountiful healing. Then again, the difference between these combinations is quite small. I am already pulling over 20 per tick, from constant recovery alone with no belt and a 40% level 2 survival bonus.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Dr <3]

Just did a quick test and it still all stacks:

 

 

First Constant Recovery entry ist the original one of the Fighter plus Rapid Recovery (modifies Constant Rec.). The second one is from the cloak that also modifies Constant Recovery and gives a bonus of 2 points per tick (in this case 2.4 beause of MIG). Then below you see the armor with 1.2 (also MIG, base is 1). Nothing gets suppressed. The thing is that an item enchantment normally doesn't supresses an ability (as long it's not from spell holding or -binding). And because the cloak doesn't just add a regeneration effect but modifies the ability it stacks with the armor.

 

So altogether this guy with MIG 17 has a regeneration rate of 15 points per tick. With the Belt of Bountiful Healing and Survival bonus he will get 45% more out of this - meaning ~22 points per tick. You can boost that further with the new chanter's phrase that does +100% healing. That would be ~37 points per tick then. And you could also take Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits for even more healing (around ~46 per tick). That's if you have one chanter. Since Ancient Memory and stuff stacks, you could also add 5 chanters with that talents and have... I don't know how much points per tick but I think about 96 on your fighter. The chanters could also use Veteran's Recovery. They would not be like the fighter but also not bad. Maybe about ~50 points per tick. You see where this is going...

Ok sorry i thought i remember bad in that case

[Boeroer]

No Problem - could have been the case that it doesn't stack anymore with 3.0 - so testing was not in vain.

 

Trollhide belt and any other regeneration item (He Carries Many Scars and so on) indeed suppress each other. I just noticed that the Mantlke of the Dying Boar doesn't get suppressed by Constant Recovery and the cloak, but by any other regenerating item. The Mantle of the Dying Boar lets you regenerate a lot more enduracne per tick - but it only works under 33% endurance. It's quite nice for any character (like blooded barbs, fire or nature godlike) who gets a bonus when under 50% endurance but doesn't want to go down after that. This mantle can keep you at 33%. 

[Braven]

Dying boar is probably a better for a high CON character (maybe a high regeneration monk, who needs more sources of regeneration and can handle being under 33% endurance), but I might try it out and see if it is viable.  Human also benefits from dropping under 50% early since fighting spirit duration is over 30 seconds and provides a decent buff.  For this build, I think it is too dangerous;  a strong hit can knock you out and then endurance regeneration doesn't matter, though the Unbroken ability will provide one mulligan.  Another great synergy for Dying boar is weapons with an enchantment that kicks in under 50% endurance.  I think the "valiant" enchantment provides something like +10 accuracy and +25% damage.

 

Another thought I had is using a robe or padded armor instead of plate after level 15.  Yes, the DR is much worse, but that helps Triggered Immunity fire off sooner, particularly with weaker encounters, and makes it easier to get a passive 0% recovery speed without frenzy or potions.  There is one that provides a deflection boost on crit in The White March village and I think a padded armor with retaliation.  I know there is the a great speed boosting padded armor, but I don't like that it is once/rest (and it is kind of buggy - doesn't always show up in the item power menu when equipped unless I save/reload).  Could be fun with the new soul bound weapons or vent picks.   Best strategy is probably to have two sets of equipment; one for easy/normal encounters and one for boss encounters which rely on the speed potion.

 

One problem with fighter is that he gets much weaker once his per/encounter abilities are used up so ending the fight earlier may be preferable to more survivability which will run out when constant recovery duration eventually ends.  More damage might be preferable to more healing at some point because of this.  Ideally, it is best if the battle is pretty much wrapped up when the ability durations expire.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Braven

[Braven]

I just discovered that Maneha's hide armor has a +25% healing modifier.  10% more than the belt, though it means a downgrade in armor, so probably not actually worth it long term.... but an interesting option.  Faster attack speed right away and now outlander's frenzy talent can be used (even though it is not really that great of a talent).

Edited March 2, 2016 by Braven

[Boeroer]

The Belt of Bountiful Healing also does +25% (at least when I looked it up again yesterday). Where do you get those 15% from? Or do you mean another belt?

[Braven]

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Belt_of_Bountiful_Healing

 

That is what the Wiki said, and I thought I remembered it being that way in the a past. Must of got buffed in 3.0. (A lot of things got buffed a lot, I am noticing)

 

Now I understand why you recommended it.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Braven

[Boeroer]

Hehe.

[hilfazer]

Stopped reading at "wound binding".

[Braven]

Stopped reading at "wound binding".

 

Then you missed out on a secret OP, dare I say borderline-broken, talent.  Since everyone immediately discards it as useless, no one has truly admired this "diamond in the rough".  It is worth around 8 Con (more, if you started with high con).  People love talents like apprentice sneak attack, but that is only equal to 5 might in the best circumstances, doesn't help healing abilities like might, and has special conditions to do anything at all.  

 

If "bind wounds" description was "let monk spam torments reach 50 more times per battle" and "dead man walking with a 300 second duration", everyone would cry foul and complain that it has broken the game but that is exactly what this talent could do in the right circumstances.

 

It just has the tiny condition of requiring large amounts of endurance regeneration that never ends.  Side Note:  I was able to keep buffing constant recovery so that it never decreased in duration by using spell tongue and max attack speed tactics.  Not sure if the duration stealing works with all enemies anymore, but it did with those annoying paralyzing guys in The White March.  The attack speed draining buff also very quickly went over 300 seconds.  I imagine you could start the fight with spell-tongue, just for the attack speed buff, and then switch to a different weapon set and the attack speed buff would last the rest of the battle.  Spell tongue works best with a barbarian because of carnage, but it still works well enough with a fighter.

 

So far, I have found that the only weakness of this build is the same weakness almost any solo build has.  You can easily get stun-locked if you are not careful about getting enemies to attack your figurines instead at the very start of combat.  This is particularly true with ranged stunners.  If you use it with a party, it has no weaknesses.  Granted, I haven't tried to take on a dragon yet... or POTD, but it is still the best I have personally played.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Braven

[DreamWayfarer]

Stopped reading at "wound binding".

Why? Even my non-minmaxed damage dealing fighter with 8 CON and much less overpowered self-healing skills often must leave the fight because she is running out of health, while endurance keeps regenerating.

 

I haven't picked it yet because I had other talents waiting, but it is a good choice for some builds.

Edited March 2, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[Teioh_White]

Like Con itself, Wound Binding usefulness largely depends on how you feel about resting. If you rest as much as the game throws at you, even with back tracking, it's not super amazing. Might still be okay for a later talent, as a lot of builds don't have a great choice from that last one or two picks. Outside of maybe trying to face tank a dragon or something, for a single fight, I've rarely found my health pool to be much of an obstacle. (That said, I myself play with heavy rest restrictions, so I really like any source of con and health. One reason I always make sure to feed Durance to the Blood Pool. Also he deserves it for being a horrible person.)

[Braven]

Like Con itself, Wound Binding usefulness largely depends on how you feel about resting. If you rest as much as the game throws at you, even with back tracking, it's not super amazing. Might still be okay for a later talent, as a lot of builds don't have a great choice from that last one or two picks. Outside of maybe trying to face tank a dragon or something, for a single fight, I've rarely found my health pool to be much of an obstacle. (That said, I myself play with heavy rest restrictions, so I really like any source of con and health. One reason I always make sure to feed Durance to the Blood Pool. Also he deserves it for being a horrible person.)

 

The purpose for the wound binding is to be used as part of a difficult, single battle.  Not to avoid resting, though I guess that is a small side benefit.  I agree, it is not needed often and maybe never in a party composition which has a much larger, combined health pool and damage is more distributed (this build is specifically geared toward solo play), but then, is anything actually needed if healing is not needed?  Why is more damage needed if you never run out of health?  If you think about it, the only purpose to any ability or talent is to help your character not die.  If health and endurance is never an issue, then there is no reason to level up at all because your character is never in any danger.  Exception being preventing stun-lock, which will kill you no matter how much health you have.  Also, I can see wanting to pick a different talent because it makes the game more interesting or fun.  This guide is specifically geared toward min/maxing and accomplishing the stated goals of maximum survivability with a single fighter.

 

I can see why people would find this talent (and maybe this entire build) boring, for the same reason as an ultra-defensive solo paladin is boring.  You could just auto-attack and take a coffee break and wait for the enemies to slowly die.  Is it a good character build that is well optimized: yes.  Fun to play: maybe not.

 

I also agree that it is a bad talent for a character that is more likely to die from endurance loss than health loss, so it certainly doesn't work with most character builds.  It works best for a build that won't typically die from endurance loss because they are heavily invested in endurance regeneration powers.  However, just because a talent isn't universal good for all character builds, that doesn't mean it is a bad talent overall.  It is just a bad talent for most builds and a great talent for the build optimized for it.

 

As a side note, this build is not great for a low-rest game.  The low health pool and lack of defenses means you will need to rest quite often, even if you are just fighting easy enemies.  Wound binding helps a little, but there are still a lot of other builds better suited to that play style.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Braven

[Teioh_White]

I guess 'needed' is an imprecise term. More, for most compositions, it literally does nothing, which is why folks have disdain for the talent at first glance. App. Sneak Attack, while that .15 mod might not be 'needed' to beat any fight, at least it does something. And it generally gets added to a pool of mods, that while not 'needed' individually, the collection of them makes a large difference, so some certain threshold is required.

 

With how easy resting is in this game, unless restricting oneself, health dropping below 50% without resting to reset everything just doesn't come up ever. So, the talent just ends up literally doing nothing.

 

Of course, it's different for this build, which literally depends on tapping into health to fuel a strange character idea. I'm not saying it's bad for this build (I think it's pretty amazing for this build), just explaining why most folks think the talent is horrible, despite being sorta like +8 Con, where App. Sneak is like +5 might.

[Braven]

I agree about the resting problem.  With unlimited resting, the game is way easier and you can abuse that with any difficulty setting.  Doesn't even cost any in-game money if you run back to your stronghold or gilded vale.  All the camping supply limitation does is waste the player's personal gaming time.  You can always head back to town and return to exactly where you were without danger because enemies never re-spawn.  Noober (different forum topic) is trying to prove that even a level 1 solo character, who never levels up, can win the game on Path of the Damned difficulty largely due to resting abuse.  It is possible to spam dozens of per rest abilities to kill a single enemy and then run away from the rest in an encounter, then rest and repeat.

 

For that reason, I can totally understand setting your own house rules to increase the challenge.  But if you do have such a house rule, I would argue that wound binding is even more useful since it is a very efficient way to avoid having to rest as often.

 

A different recent game, Legends of the Sword Coast, tried to solve that problem by giving out penalties for resting.  That is also what my old Dungeons and Dragons dungeon master would do with players who tried to abuse resting; very bad things tended to happen!  After all, every wasted minute is a minute that the evil forces of the world can use to grow stronger.

 

I kind of wish Pillars did something like that.  Every time you rest, enemies get stronger in some way.  However, If it were ever added, I think it should probably be a difficulty option and not forced.  Some players would be turned off by that or feel compelled to not-rest, end up dying a lot more, and then be very frustrated.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Braven