Rogue Bows vs DW vs Pike Dps

[helmino]

Heya guys! I just started my second campaign, this time on POTD, and i want to know your opinion on the dps of the weapons i mentioned in the title of the thread. How much is the difference between the dps of bows (both type), a tall grass and dual sabre? All the build is focused on hit to crit conversion on POTD. Im curious anyway in general if the dps difference apply to other classes too. Thank you all in advance!

[Boeroer]

Dual Wielding Sabres on a rogue will give you the highest dps. That's because of increased speed, high base damage and full attacks (=two fast hits with the sabre). Rogues can have a lot of full attacks per encounter. But you will have to put some points into defenses because you have to go into close melee fight and will get hit.

 

Bows and pikes are safer. You can't do damage when you're down.

 

It depends on your party composition. If you have a paladin for example who can cast Reinforcing Exhortation and stuff on your rogue then I would go for sabres. Resolution and Purgatory is one of the best setups for a crit build.  

[helmino]

Thanks for the insight. Anyway aside from that the difference is that high?

Edited February 23, 2016 by helmino

[rheingold]

There is quite a substantial difference between dual wield sabres and the rest. Not sure about the maths but is really noticeable. Things die quickly. I'd pump resolve to around 16 or so and take the defensive talents like superior deflection. The invisibility talent will also save your ass. Get the best armour you can find.

As Boeroer mentioned, a paladin with reinforcing exhortation is helpful and not just for the deflection buff. Occasionally he/she might have to resurrect your rogue:)

Still it's a fun build, lots of micro managing though....

[Boeroer]

Dual Wielding annihilating (=crit damage = double damage) weapons with high base damage (like Resolution & Purgatory), high crit chance and full attacks are really strong in terms of damage. I don't think there's anything that comes close on a rogue. You won't have things like prone on crit and so on.

 

edit: if you don't want to use full attacks a lot I would recommend Hours of St. Rumbalt instead. It's annihilating AND causes prone on crit.

 

It's also nice to summon Firebrand (absurd base damage, annihilating) when you meet enemies with low deflection but tons of endurance (aka Ogres).

Edited February 23, 2016 by Boeroer

[rheingold]

Yeah, but when I have played a dual wield rogue she hasn't need prone:) Boots of speed and irritating mages and archers go down so fast. But it does depend on the rest of your party. I find it really difficult to have a dual wield rogue and ranger in the same party. Between the pet and the rogue it's a lot of micro managing... But it is one of my favourite builds. Someone posted a build a while back where he was soloing on Potd and took Thaos down in something like 4 hits.

[Kaylon]

Dual Rimecutters gives the best DPS. Battleaxes have lower base damage than sabres, however being able to swing without recovery while wearing full plate is much better.

[Boeroer]

Right -  but then you don't take the full attack abilities like Crippling Strike and so on into account. If you pile up a lot of those I think sabres are still better. 

[Elric Galad]

The problem with ranged rogue is that I don't see how he can be better than ranger since twin arrows has been release.

 

Twin arrows + driven flight + stormcaller is insane.

If you add the 2.0 pet in the mix, I don't see a future for ranged rogue.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Yeah that's true - even without Stormcaller. The pet alone - if used correctly - does so much damage. And then comes stunning shot.

 

I think even a melee ranger is on par with a melee rogue:

He has his own speed modal, Stalker's Link (with Stalker's Torc)... and Stunning Shots now also work in melee. If a melee ranger and his pet flank an enemy I'd say their combined dps is higher than that of a rogue. And a ranger has better deflection. I did no tests on that but when I played my "Riptide" build it felt much more powerful than all the rogues I played before. 

 

But I like Deep Wounds on a ranged rogue. I also like Deep Wounds on a retaliation rogue.

[rheingold]

Yeah that's true - even without Stormcaller. The pet alone - if used correctly - does so much damage. And then comes stunning shot.

 

I think even a melee ranger is on par with a melee rogue:

He has his own speed modal, Stalker's Link (with Stalker's Torc)... and Stunning Shots now also work in melee. If a melee ranger and his pet flank an enemy I'd say their combined dps is higher than that of a rogue. And a ranger has better deflection. I did no tests on that but when I played my "Riptide" build it felt much more powerful than all the rogues I played before. 

 

But I like Deep Wounds on a ranged rogue. I also like Deep Wounds on a retaliation rogue.

Not sure about the maths - mine is terrible, and while I agree that a Ranger either ranged or melee is very close to a rogue - and adds other benefits to the party, from a practical point of view I'm not sure anything comes close to a rogues damage burst rate. ie I think a rogue with it's strikes, kills things that much quicker, and while a ranger over say a period of a fight would do the same if not more damage, it's often the fact that a rogue will take down an enemy immediately instead of a couple of seconds. That makes a substantial difference in playstyle. But yeah, Rangers are awesome - so are Rogues:)

[Elric Galad]

Rogue now have no-check defense debuff (for party) and automatic deathblow activation provided you flank. I really like this distraction new talent.

 

Dual wielding with speed weapons give them a multiplicative spees factor that pet does not have (and rogues tend to have better dex too).

 

Bonus damages are out of ranger's ranger (around 170%) (except for Texas ranger but that's another story, given that Chuck Norris can dual wield blunderbuss in melee...). So I don't think ranger is on par with melee rogue.

 

On the other hand, pet and ranger are 2, so maybe...

[helmino]

Yeah that's true - even without Stormcaller. The pet alone - if used correctly - does so much damage. And then comes stunning shot.

 

I think even a melee ranger is on par with a melee rogue:

He has his own speed modal, Stalker's Link (with Stalker's Torc)... and Stunning Shots now also work in melee. If a melee ranger and his pet flank an enemy I'd say their combined dps is higher than that of a rogue. And a ranger has better deflection. I did no tests on that but when I played my "Riptide" build it felt much more powerful than all the rogues I played before.

 

But I like Deep Wounds on a ranged rogue. I also like Deep Wounds on a retaliation rogue.

Will search the forum for your build im curious now just to know you suggest warbow or hunting bow on ranger? Edited February 23, 2016 by helmino

[Mocker22]

Yeah that's true - even without Stormcaller. The pet alone - if used correctly - does so much damage. And then comes stunning shot.

 

I think even a melee ranger is on par with a melee rogue:

He has his own speed modal, Stalker's Link (with Stalker's Torc)... and Stunning Shots now also work in melee. If a melee ranger and his pet flank an enemy I'd say their combined dps is higher than that of a rogue. And a ranger has better deflection. I did no tests on that but when I played my "Riptide" build it felt much more powerful than all the rogues I played before. 

 

But I like Deep Wounds on a ranged rogue. I also like Deep Wounds on a retaliation rogue.

Boeroer, I've always liked the Riptide idea....have you considered any modifications with 3.0 and WMII items? Not sure if it would be able to move away from Tidefall as the DoT really helps make your pet shine. Then again there are plenty of dot effects in this game.

[Boeroer]

 except for Texas ranger but that's another story, given that Chuck Norris can dual wield blunderbuss in melee...

It's always worthwhile to look into this forum - even if it's just for some laughs.

[Boeroer]

 

Boeroer, I've always liked the Riptide idea....have you considered any modifications with 3.0 and WMII items? Not sure if it would be able to move away from Tidefall as the DoT really helps make your pet shine. Then again there are plenty of dot effects in this game.

 

I don't have enough time at the moment to even play properly through WMII. If my current project (I mean work) is done I will try to update my build and even add new ones. All those new abilities like Reaping Knives, that ranged fist and stuff open up so many possibilities.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

Right -  but then you don't take the full attack abilities like Crippling Strike and so on into account. If you pile up a lot of those I think sabres are still better. 

Yes, I do... Even with extreme dmg bonuses (like 300%, hiting with both weapons, 180% crit dmg, 50% hit to crit...) the axes will be superior. Swords do 4.5% more dmg than axes per hit but swing nearly 80% slower without speed buffs. The sabres are superior only if you're using deleterious alacrity all the time...

 

 

Yeah that's true - even without Stormcaller. The pet alone - if used correctly - does so much damage. And then comes stunning shot.

 

I think even a melee ranger is on par with a melee rogue:

He has his own speed modal, Stalker's Link (with Stalker's Torc)... and Stunning Shots now also work in melee. If a melee ranger and his pet flank an enemy I'd say their combined dps is higher than that of a rogue. And a ranger has better deflection. I did no tests on that but when I played my "Riptide" build it felt much more powerful than all the rogues I played before.

 

But I like Deep Wounds on a ranged rogue. I also like Deep Wounds on a retaliation rogue.

Will search the forum for your build im curious now just to know you suggest warbow or hunting bow on ranger?

 

Highest dps bow vs single targets is Persistence. Stormcaller is nice vs targets weak to shock and vs multiple targets close to each other. The best bow overall is Sabra Marie (if durgan enchanted and with twinned shots).

[Boeroer]

I really hate Sabra Marie in fights against trash mobs.

[helmino]

Speaking of bow anyone know if you can proc the new distraction talent with ranged weapon?

Edited February 26, 2016 by helmino

[cavemandiary]

As noted, sabres are amazing. You need to enchant them, however, as resolution and purgatory are fine and exceptional respectively.

On the flip side, the new dagger is incredible for a rogue, if you have the patience to level it up.

[Kaylon]

Speaking of bow anyone know if you can proc the new distraction talent with ranged weapon?

No, only melee weapons.