SW: The Old Republic - Episode VIII (May RNG Be With You)

[bugarup]

Ah, if you mean what I think you mean, then F†CK no. He had a really cool arc, with proper beginning, end and even lasting impact on the world, and it's finished perfectly and  perfectly finished. Resurrection gimmick is daft enough even for a good writer to make it work, and -- judging by recent content -- they don't even have writers that use common sense any longer.

[ShadySands]

I don't want to spoil anything but I'm just glad it's not Revan again

[majestic]

I don't want to spoil anything but I'm just glad it's not Revan again

 

So who do you think it is? Just throw it in spoiler tags, I'm most likely going to read about it more than play anyway.

[ShadySands]

I'll just PM you the answer as well as the Jediapedia link so that you can read the datamine if interested

 

 

 

Moff Pyron is back as well

 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by ShadySands

[Manveru123]

Some characters just refuse to stay dead.

[ShadySands]

For the new update 5.10 you can skip KOTET and jump right into the new content much like you could skip KOTFE when KOTET dropped.

 

Here is how the story will autocomplete. KOTET spoilers obviously.

 

 

The HK-55 bonus chapter is not auto-completed at all.

KOTET Chapter 1: Republic characters are assumed to help Senya; Imperial characters are assumed to kill her. Thus, in Chapter 6, it’s assumed that Republic characters recruit light-side Arcann, while Imperial characters are assumed to kill dark-side Arcann.

KOTET Chapter 3: Republic characters are assumed to forgive Koth; Imperial characters are assumed to kill him.

KOTET Chapter 5: Republic characters and Imperial Agents are assumed to spare SCORPIO; the remaining Imperial classes are assumed to kill her.

KOTET Chapter 8: Republic characters and Sith Warriors are assumed to save Vette; the remaining Imperial classes are assumed to save Torian instead.

War for Iokath: Republic characters are assumed to ally with the Republic and help Jace Malcom; Imperial characters are assumed to ally with the Sith Empire and help Empress Acina.

Traitor Among the Chiss: Republic characters are assumed to take Zenta as a prisoner; Imperial characters are assumed to kill her.

Nathema Conspiracy: all characters are assumed to forgive Theron and keep him in the Alliance.

 

Also, the light-side Arcann Alliance Alert will be auto-completed if it hasn’t been completed already; no other Alliance Alerts will be auto-completed

Edited November 21, 2018 by ShadySands

[Manveru123]

Ah yes. More of that "Republic = good boiz, Empire = evil twerps" crap. Stereoptypes 

[bugarup]

You overestimate SWTOR population -- they do love their "blue=gud, red=bad" binarity (Now when I think no wonder Disney got interested in the franchise -- rigid, uncompromising dichotomy is right up Mickey's alley). And Imp side is indeed full of edgiest edgelords that ever skirted edges of the world really edgily.  

Edited November 21, 2018 by bugarup

[Manveru123]

Maybe you're right. I liked my Light Side Sith characters tho, their LS stories felt better than actual Jedi. While "evil Jedi" is just a mindless brute, a typical "Chaotic Evil" madman, not fun at all.

[majestic]

Maybe you're right. I liked my Light Side Sith characters tho, their LS stories felt better than actual Jedi. While "evil Jedi" is just a mindless brute, a typical "Chaotic Evil" madman, not fun at all.

 

The best part of the light side Sith Warrior storyline is lecturing Jedi about the light side.

[Manveru123]

To be fair, the Jedi you meet as a Sith Warrior are mostly racist zealots.

[bugarup]

And most Sith you meet across all storylines are racist imbeciles and whole SWTOR's grandiose "Light vs Dark" shtick is more "Pushovers vs Edgelords". Bleh. Forceys are overrated, Imperial Intelligence forever. 

[Manveru123]

And most Sith you meet across all storylines are racist imbeciles and whole SWTOR's grandiose "Light vs Dark" shtick is more "Pushovers vs Edgelords". Bleh. Forceys are overrated, Imperial Intelligence forever. 

QFT <3

[Raithe]

What always kind of bugged me was that they never did develop anything for those who went "Grey" on either side.

[213374U]

What always kind of bugged me was that they never did develop anything for those who went "Grey" on either side.

 

Yeah, I don't think Bioware ever considered "grey" a valid option, for force users. Even Jolee Bindo was full-on light side, he simply worked outside the system.

 

On the other hand, you could keep the Sith at arms length as a Bounty Hunter, which was nice. And the story was consistently great.

 

A pity that BiowEA decided to siphon resources off to MEA first and Anthem later. If they had doubled down on class stories instead of the garbage they've been struggling to throw together these last few years, this may still be worth playing.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Meh, i always thought grey jedi were a silly concept. Like 'u must adhere to light side or fall to dark side' is a fine foundation to me.

 

Keep that as ur bedrock and u can spin plenty of fun stories about how easy it is to go dark and how hard it is to stay light. Being force-sensitive should be profound life-changing event that ropes u into that battle whether u like it or not. No escape, no respite. Endless momentum.

 

Idea of grey jedi undermines threat of going dark and questions necessity of striving to be light. Which seems counterproductive when ur ip's defining trait is that central conflict.

 

Like, if star wars wants to trade in more grounded characters, fine, but surely there are non-jedi to use that wont dilute ur main blend.

 

Eh... then again, i was never convinced by star wars. The poor mule's back has long been broken by expectations it was never meant to bear.

 

Fwiw, i stan kotor2, but that wasnt really star wars, it was MCA on his usual crack with lightsabres.

[ShadySands]

Honestly, I think it's just lazy storytelling. The good guys have these strict rules that must be followed exactly or you turn into chaotic stupid bad guy. You know, the guys that are so bad that they randomly kill their own people just to show they are bad. I like the light side Sith in the game as they feel more real

 

The games all ignore the no attachment rules anyway because BioWare games used to have to have romance.

Edited November 22, 2018 by ShadySands

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Honestly, I think it's just lazy storytelling. The good guys have these strict rules that must be followed exactly or you turn into chaotic stupid bad guy. You know, the guys that are so bad that they randomly kill their own people just to show they are bad. I like the light side Sith in the game as they feel more real.

Eh dont see why it has to necessitate lazy anything. Constructing compelling situations where peeps with regular moral compass struggle to uphold light side values would require skill and graft.

 

Like think many of us have faced sitautions where weve had to choose between our ethics and humanity. Light side/dark side binary just raises that conflict to operatic levels, and star wars space opera at end of day.

[Manveru123]

Meh, i always thought grey jedi were a silly concept. Like 'u must adhere to light side or fall to dark side' is a fine foundation to me.

 

This. I always found this concept silly. If you don't follow a Jedi Code, you're not a Jedi. Like Yoda said, you do or do not, force users are not Switzerland.

[213374U]

Yeah, and if you think the Council of Nicaea was total balls you're probably not a Catholic, but that doesn't mean you can't be a Christian.

 

I never liked "gray" Jedi being just regular Joe Jedi with cool force lightning and ****. But Jedi apostates, so to speak? I don't see why not.

 

To me, a character struggling (and possibly failing) not to become a bastard coated bastard with bastard filling while trying to find his own way is thematically fairly interesting. Like, how long you think you can dance on the razor's edge and all that.

[Manveru123]

Except that the Jedi Order doesn't have multiple branches, that have differences of opinion on certain matters. Like I said, you're either a Jedi or you're not. Of course you can have your internal struggles but as long as you consider yourself a Jedi and try to live your life according to the code, you're not gray, or pink, or yellow or any other colour.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Yeah, and if you think the Council of Nicaea was total balls you're probably not a Catholic, but that doesn't mean you can't be a Christian.

 

I never liked "gray" Jedi being just regular Joe Jedi with cool force lightning and ****. But Jedi apostates, so to speak? I don't see why not.

 

To me, a character struggling (and possibly failing) not to become a bastard coated bastard with bastard filling while trying to find his own way is thematically fairly interesting. Like, how long you think you can dance on the razor's edge and all that.

I believe comparing jedi to rl religion not wholly salient.

 

In SW, light side and dark side observable cosmic forces that have been measured and endured over many centuries.

 

So jedi code has more in common with a professional bodys ethical framework that has been developed from combination of ideals and evidence.

 

Its the result of millions of studies saying 'if u do this, u cause harm'.

 

To use example from own field, force user operating outside of jedi code is less comparable to apostate monk - and more comparable to british psychotherapist operating outside of BACP.

 

Like, ye, maybe u disagree with BACP in good faith but theres evidence that if u disregard their framework, u likely cause a huge amount of harm.

 

And if u continue to apply their framework - or a similar variant - after getting kicked out for sleeping with an auditors spouse, well, its like above: ur basically a light side force user acting outside order, not a grey jedi.

 

And ye, we have professional bodies that compete and disagree and stuff - i know - but however accurate our measurements might get, we dont yet have advantage of manifesting diametrically opposed cosmic forces. SW universe does.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

I feel biggest problem with SW is that many fans and creators alike want it to be all-encompassing space fantasy universe that can tell all stories and reflect entirety of human experience.

 

unfortunately this results in conflict with original spec. Most attempts to resolve its ambitions with its identity have resulted in a mess.

 

as mentioned above, MCA did well on his own terms, but his efforts were divisive. They didnt gain popular traction.

 

the series could reject the whole force binary to become what it wishes, but then why call it Star Wars?

[213374U]

Except that the Jedi Order doesn't have multiple branches, that have differences of opinion on certain matters. Like I said, you're either a Jedi or you're not. Of course you can have your internal struggles but as long as you consider yourself a Jedi and try to live your life according to the code, you're not gray, or pink, or yellow or any other colour.

I'm pretty sure that it's canon that the Jedi order has a bunch of individuals that willingly walked away, so yeah, differences of opinion do in fact exist. The point of contention is whether those individuals consider themselves Jedi and what's the opinion of the hierarchy on that. There's also Jedi splinter factions.

 

"Either you are a Jedi or you are not" is a tautology that doesn't really clarify anything. Hell, even post-RotJ Luke doesn't very well fit with what the concept of a Jedi is, as embodied for instance by Mace Windu. If a Jedi is just whoever the current writer says they are, this leads to obvious contradictions and a coherent definition is impossible.

 

If your beef is with colors, then whatever. Apostate, dissident, heterodox, and a myriad other adjectives work fine to describe the concept.

 

 

 

I believe comparing jedi to rl religion not wholly salient.

 

In SW, light side and dark side observable cosmic forces that have been measured and endured over many centuries.

 

So jedi code has more in common with a professional bodys ethical framework that has been developed from combination of ideals and evidence.

 

Its the result of millions of studies saying 'if u do this, u cause harm'.

Unlike real world medical practice, knowledge of the force in SW isn't the result of a million peer-reviewed studies, but a whole lot of nebulous anecdote-inspired mumbo-jumbo wrapped in mysticism. So "do this - cause harm" is more religious dogmatism than proven, well understood mechanical cause and effect. It's like how people still died of things like typhoid fever in China despite thousands of years of experience with "traditional" methods, until antibiotics came along.

 

Before Disney nuked the EU, there were other non-Jedi LS force user traditions. And there's precedent of Sith using a systematic, science-based approach to study the Force, the results of which (the creation of life) aren't inherently dark side.

 

Jedi are just one sect of force users. They don't necessarily have a monopoly on "light side safe practices" because they quite obviously lack a comprehensive knowledge of the force and their rigid philosophy doesn't exactly encourage exploration. And as with any centrally organized religious establishments, schisms are inevitable.

 

I'm not even going into MCA's views on whether the force really has light and dark sides. Just basic fallibility and the intrinsic unreliability of incomplete, unscientific principles.

[SonicMage117]

Jedism/Jediism is very symbolistic of Christianity in that it deals with absolutes. For example, you are either a Jedi or a Sith just as in Christinity, the relationship states "You are hot or cold. You cannot proceed to have one foot out and the other in".

 

There are so many movies/books that were inspired by Christianity though. Star Wars, Lord Of The Rings, Chronicles Of Narnia, The Matrix and even the late Batman vs Superman. These all have very clear references to the Christian Bible which would be foolish not to see and that's simply because the writers intended that foreshadowing of story and hidden message in there. If you guys would like, I can link YouTube videos which explain this as well - I realize it may be hard for some to believe/follow.