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Bitching on this forum

brindle88
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brindle88

brindle88

Posted
Posted (edited)

Humans. We are a fantastic species but unfortunately we follow human instincts (me included). Sometimes we have to ignore our human instincts and try to deal with people better. Now I am guilty of succoming to the following points I am going to raise, I would like to clarify that, though I am a big enough man to correct myself and try to deal with people in a better way.

 

Those points are:

 

- people are never wrong: if someone states there opinion or there views they are going to stick to it. You can't just bring forth your own opinion and convince that person they are wrong and you are right. It's as if people are just pointlessly arguing here in this fashion. There are ways of convincing people they are wrong but they generally have to realise it for themselves, they can't be told they are wrong.

 

- critiizing people and complaining about them. You are throwing stones. You are doing nothing more then gratifying your ego here.

 

- try to see things from other peoples perspectives.if We at least try to do this then most of these hissy fits could be avoided.

 

Now I'm probably going to be attacked by people for even writing this. I tried to liven this forum up by posting a joke thread a few days ago ( see thread breaking news pillars 2 has been announced)and I got trolled bad but I've had enough of all this crap after reading this thread:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83375-a-bit-of-a-disappointment-but-at-the-same-time-a-great-rpg/

 

Read the last page of it.

Edited by brindle88
  • Like 5
gogocactus

gogocactus

Posted
Posted

I have to agree with your sentiment in so far as that it would be nice if people on the general section of this forum could sometimes try to be a bit more positive and, rather than try to 'win' every debate, just enjoy the conversation and each others different viewpoints more.

  • Like 3
Fenixp

Fenixp

Posted
Posted (edited)

There you go. Here we go again.

We don't, I'm neither trolling nor attacking your personality - you just can't get away with "It's just my opinion" on every turn, it's an argumentative fallacy. Kind of relevant (links to youtube) Edited by Fenixp
  • Like 1
archangel979

archangel979

Posted
Posted

 

There you go. Here we go again.

We don't, I'm neither trolling nor attacking your personality - you just can't get away with "It's just my opinion" on every turn, it's an argumentative fallacy. Kind of relevant (links to youtube)

 

Actually you are trolling because we are discussing art and likes/dislikes here not scientific data and I think you know that but CHOOSE to ignore it to further the argument.
Fenixp

Fenixp

Posted
Posted (edited)

Actually you are trolling because we are discussing art and likes/dislikes here not scientific data and I think you know that but CHOOSE to ignore it to further the argument.

Just because we're discussing art likes and dislikes doesn't mean people can't point out inconsistencies and inaccuracies in your argument and compare them to reality. I'm sorry, but if you don't want to read criticism of your opinions, you should not put them out there to be criticized.

 

Edit: Or at least be careful about what you post - if you go on Pillars of Eternity subboards on Obsidian boards and start talking about how system conceived in Pillars by Obsidian is low-effort without having any actual data to back the statement up, what kind of reaction do you expect?

Edited by Fenixp
globalCooldown

globalCooldown

Posted
Posted

Oh no, look out, people on the internet are upset and fighting. -_-

 

While Fenixp has a point about facts being important, the fact is that there's generally a lot of trolling, bitching, and negativity on these forums. You can find it in just about every thread you look in, and if you can't find your own examples, then by whatever powers-that-be, I will find you some.

I can't say if it's a problem across *all* Obsidian forums, but it's sure a problem here in the PoE subforums.

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I stream every Friday at 9pm EST: http://www.twitch.tv/ladaarehn  Currently streaming: KOTOR 2.

 

Pillars of Eternity homebrew tabletop thread: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84662-pillars-of-eternity-homebrew-wip/

 

archangel979

archangel979

Posted
Posted

 

Actually you are trolling because we are discussing art and likes/dislikes here not scientific data and I think you know that but CHOOSE to ignore it to further the argument.

Just because we're discussing art likes and dislikes doesn't mean people can't point out inconsistencies and inaccuracies in your argument and compare them to reality. I'm sorry, but if you don't want to read criticism of your opinions, you should not put them out there to be criticized.

 

Edit: Or at least be careful about what you post - if you go on Pillars of Eternity subboards on Obsidian boards and start talking about how system conceived in Pillars by Obsidian is low-effort without having any actual data to back the statement up, what kind of reaction do you expect?

 

But I did. I said it is low effort compared to IE games. I even gave spell examples and explained differences and why I think IE games did it better.
Fenixp

Fenixp

Posted
Posted (edited)

the fact is that there's generally a lot of trolling, bitching, and negativity on these forums

Well even when you know for a fact you're right and the other person is wrong (and I'm naturally always right and the other person is wrong, I mean is there even any argument about that?) you can put up that information is such a way that it's not offensive. Now I'm not going to pretend that's what I always do, I'm not great at wrapping my argument in such a way that it doesn't look exceptionally arrogant (I'm being actively taught at my job to just present my arguments with as few bells and whistles as possible which makes communication more effective but also looks very arrogant), but the general guidelines one should abide by are:

 

1.) Attack the argument, not the person. When you make it clear that you respect the one making an argument as a person and only try to counter their arguments, it goes a long way in making discussion a lot calmer. Furthermore it leads to much more in-depth analysis of the argument itself, so it also serves to properly further the discussion.

 

2.) Use as little emotion as possible in your argumentation. The moment you're being sarcastic, write a lot of 'lol's or otherwise try to arrange your argument in such a way that it's interpreted as funny or witty, chances are the other side will feel like you're ridiculing them. Don't.

 

3.) If you're presenting an opinion, make sure it stays an opinion. The moment you start introducing factual, quantifiable statements into your opinion, it stops being just an opinion. Good news is: Most of the time you can completely avoid doing so and only stick to the opinionated side of the argument.

 

4.) Stick to the point. If you're discussing quality of encounters in Pillars of Eternity, stick to discussing quality of encounters in Pillars of Eternity and try not to derail the discussion into something entirely different. When you dislike encounters in Pillars of Eternity in such a discussion, trust me, statements like "Obsidian is ****" will not help your argument, they'll just start a new one.

 

But I did. I said it is low effort compared to IE games. I even gave spell examples and explained differences and why I think IE games did it better.

See? Exactly what I'm talking about. Just because there's a game which, in your opinion, did something better than another game doesn't make the other game low-effort. The important information out of that statement is that you believe IE games did spells better and why do you think IE games did spells better. Information that Pillars is low-effort will inevitably take the discussion away from spells in Pillars in comparison to Infinity Engine games and start discussion about whether or not Pillars is a low-effort game, as nicely showcased by Zenbane right over there. That you think Pillars is a low-effort game brings nothing to the discussion, doesn't help you further your point, distracts everybody from the original argument and just antagonizes fans of the game. For absolutely no good reason.

 

Essentially:

3.) Amount of effort that's been put into systems in game development is very quantifiable and can't any longer be passed as an opinion. Unless you have source of data on how much effort has Obsidian put into developing spells it's best to not mention it at all.

 

4.) Amount of effort that's been put into spells in Pillars of Eternity is completely irrelevant to comparison of spells in Pillars of Eternity and of spells in Baldur's Gate. While there's a loose connection in that it might be cause of why you find spells lackluster, it's also a whole new discussion and has no place in comparing spells from IE games to spells in PoE.

Edited by Fenixp
  • Like 3
Sedrefilos

Sedrefilos

Posted
Posted (edited)

See? Exactly what I'm talking about. Just because there's a game which, in your opinion, did something better than another game doesn't make the other game low-effort. The important information out of that statement is that you believe IE games did spells better and why do you think IE games did spells better. Information that Pillars is low-effort will inevitably take the discussion away from spells in Pillars in comparison to Infinity Engine games and start discussion about whether or not Pillars is a low-effort game, as nicely showcased by Zenbane right over there. That you think Pillars is a low-effort game brings nothing to the discussion, doesn't help you further your point, distracts everybody from the original argument and just antagonizes fans of the game. For absolutely no good reason.

 

 

I feel the need to inform the newer members of the Pillars forums that there are people who strongly believe that Pillars is not a god game because it is not an exact copy of an IE game, which were the best games ever made and won't be any other games better than them. Good, it's their opinion - but; These people have found purpose in their last two years of their life in spamming this in these forums while being unable to properly converse with others or move on with their lives. You must have spotted them by now.

 

Try to ignore them as much as possible for the sake of fruitful conversations. Else, it'll come down to what Fenixp said in the above quote.

Edited by Sedrefilos
  • Like 3
Zenbane

Zenbane

Posted
Posted

I leave you guys to have fun between yourselves as you seem to be. Just use protection, we don't want accidents.

 

No promises, we can only hope to live up to the standard you and brindle set in your mission to be the best dads you can be :dancing:

haveahappy

haveahappy

Posted
Posted

We're all a bunch of nostalgic curmudgeons who'll bitch and complain at the slightest provocation. If there isn't a reason we'll make one up.

 

It's just who we are. Obsidian knows this.

 

People who think cRPG's peaked in the year 2000 are the Pillars of Eternity target market.

The arguing and complaining on this forum is a feature of the community, not a bug.

 

IMOIIRCAFAIKYMMV

  • Like 1
Sedrefilos

Sedrefilos

Posted
Posted

We're all a bunch of nostalgic curmudgeons who'll bitch and complain at the slightest provocation. If there isn't a reason we'll make one up.

 

It's just who we are. Obsidian knows this.

 

People who think cRPG's peaked in the year 2000 are the Pillars of Eternity target market.

The arguing and complaining on this forum is a feature of the community, not a bug.

 

IMOIIRCAFAIKYMMV

 

Nah, not all of us are like this. Speak for yourself mate.

  • Like 1
rheingold

rheingold

Posted
Posted

Agree with Sed, not all of us are like that. Not sure why the forums have turned nasty over the last few days.

But I'll leave it to Jack for the final words...

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

brindle88

brindle88

Posted
  • Author
Posted

When I made the title of this thread and named it bitching on this forum i didn't mean that everyone is supposed to come onto this thread and start bitching on it.

  • Like 2
Heijoushin

Heijoushin

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well... we have the occasional tiff here, but really I think that this forum is rather mature and reasonable compared to some other spots in cyber space.

 

Anyway, I'll try to be nice. But I think the problem is when you're having a bad day, and decide to do a little browsing... ;)

 

Edited by Heijoushin
  • Like 1
Boeroer

Boeroer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Even in the PoE subforums there are huge differences: in the "Character builds" subforum everything is nice and cosy most of the time - while the "General discussion" is filled with a lot of... well... bitching? :)

Edited by Boeroer
  • Like 3

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