European Refugee Crisis : Part 2

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

I'll be sure to tell to the next rape victim of 22 year old Afghani "child" that she should be grateful that she was enriched by the next Steve Jobs in the making.

 

See what i did there? I used the same logic right back in order to show what kind of infentile idea that is. One is called trolling, the other an artistic message for the press to report, but basically the same thing. Bansky should import all the refugees as he can to his own house if he supports it so much instead playing high and mighty on other people's tax money. God forbid for any sane approach to the problem when there's these kinds of idiots around.

 

Yeah, only a poorly thought-out post that you composed in less than five minutes cannot really compare to a mural and even in this day and age would not be considered art by anyone. Feel free to go draw up a rape scene involving refugees on the side of the town hall, though.

 

And hey: if you care so much about the victims of such rapes, why aren't you devoting every single free second of your time to help rape victims? There are volunteer organizations for this as well as career choices you can make to help people, you know. (see what I did there?)

 

But it isn't about people at all, but rather your own issues, yes? Maybe get help? It's clear that venting is just not doing the trick. Good luck.

 

 

I appriciate your concern, but i am already a member of such organisation that actively help people and donate my own money monthly. These "artists" piss me off like no other since they are the most vocal while doing the least. Previously, at least they managed to raise a debate with some insight, but now they are just dumb.

 

I dont know Meshugger but 2133 makes a good point here. Can I give you some advice that I learnt about living in South Africa. its much better to just say  " I dont want thousands of Syrian Muslims immigrating to Finland because we have such different  cultures  " ...you don't even need to justify it because there is no country in the world that would be fine with it under the circumstances unless you prepare to accept them like Germany or like Sweden you really believe in the social aspect 

 

But what you are doing, or rather what it probably seems for others, is finding actually irrelevant or contradictory reasons that come across as you being racist ot bigoted. Now you shouldn't have to feel like that but if you take what 2133 is saying he is right yet I know thats not what you are really saying 

 

Its funny but living in the West sometimes we feel because of our past we can''t ever say " no I would prefer only limited migrants " as that would seem racist.

 

 

It's just because you're close-minded. One can have altruism for others, while still wishing the best of your own people. It is possible

[BruceVC]

 

I appriciate your concern, but i am already a member of such organisation that actively help people and donate my own money monthly. These "artists" piss me off like no other since they are the most vocal while doing the least. Previously, at least they managed to raise a debate with some insight, but now they are just dumb.

Uh-huh. Not good enough, sorry. If you aren't helping out all day everyday, you have no right to raise a point. It's not that I believe this, of course, but that's pretty much the logic you are using with the tired "he likes immigrants, he can take them all in his house instead of speaking up" nonsense.

 

Also, I have serious doubts that you actually know anything about the author(s) considering that you can barely spell the name right. Feel free to prove me wrong. They are dumb, but you aren't exactly raising the level of the debate, yourself.

 

2133 I wish you would engage with me, I enjoy our debates and what is frustrating is people like you and Zora refuse to debate with me because you think I'm  a troll. For me I'm fascinated by what motivates you and yes I will always be honest with you which I think you think is trolling but surly after all this time you can't still think I'm  a troll?

 

I'll be honest I like debating with clever people and I know you are bright but you just have a few misconceptions about things like the EU...so its not like we differ on everything and I appreciate your support of SJ issues 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

I'll be sure to tell to the next rape victim of 22 year old Afghani "child" that she should be grateful that she was enriched by the next Steve Jobs in the making.

 

See what i did there? I used the same logic right back in order to show what kind of infentile idea that is. One is called trolling, the other an artistic message for the press to report, but basically the same thing. Bansky should import all the refugees as he can to his own house if he supports it so much instead playing high and mighty on other people's tax money. God forbid for any sane approach to the problem when there's these kinds of idiots around.

 

Yeah, only a poorly thought-out post that you composed in less than five minutes cannot really compare to a mural and even in this day and age would not be considered art by anyone. Feel free to go draw up a rape scene involving refugees on the side of the town hall, though.

 

And hey: if you care so much about the victims of such rapes, why aren't you devoting every single free second of your time to help rape victims? There are volunteer organizations for this as well as career choices you can make to help people, you know. (see what I did there?)

 

But it isn't about people at all, but rather your own issues, yes? Maybe get help? It's clear that venting is just not doing the trick. Good luck.

 

 

I appriciate your concern, but i am already a member of such organisation that actively help people and donate my own money monthly. These "artists" piss me off like no other since they are the most vocal while doing the least. Previously, at least they managed to raise a debate with some insight, but now they are just dumb.

 

I dont know Meshugger but 2133 makes a good point here. Can I give you some advice that I learnt about living in South Africa. its much better to just say  " I dont want thousands of Syrian Muslims immigrating to Finland because we have such different  cultures  " ...you don't even need to justify it because there is no country in the world that would be fine with it under the circumstances unless you prepare to accept them like Germany or like Sweden you really believe in the social aspect 

 

But what you are doing, or rather what it probably seems for others, is finding actually irrelevant or contradictory reasons that come across as you being racist ot bigoted. Now you shouldn't have to feel like that but if you take what 2133 is saying he is right yet I know thats not what you are really saying 

 

Its funny but living in the West sometimes we feel because of our past we can''t ever say " no I would prefer only limited migrants " as that would seem racist.

 

 

It's just because you're close-minded. One can have altruism for others, while still wishing the best of your own people. It is possible

 

But you must realize thats not how you coming across ...hence the reason people like alum and 2133 challenge you on some things 

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be sure to tell to the next rape victim of 22 year old Afghani "child" that she should be grateful that she was enriched by the next Steve Jobs in the making.

 

See what i did there? I used the same logic right back in order to show what kind of infentile idea that is. One is called trolling, the other an artistic message for the press to report, but basically the same thing. Bansky should import all the refugees as he can to his own house if he supports it so much instead playing high and mighty on other people's tax money. God forbid for any sane approach to the problem when there's these kinds of idiots around.

 

Yeah, only a poorly thought-out post that you composed in less than five minutes cannot really compare to a mural and even in this day and age would not be considered art by anyone. Feel free to go draw up a rape scene involving refugees on the side of the town hall, though.

 

And hey: if you care so much about the victims of such rapes, why aren't you devoting every single free second of your time to help rape victims? There are volunteer organizations for this as well as career choices you can make to help people, you know. (see what I did there?)

 

But it isn't about people at all, but rather your own issues, yes? Maybe get help? It's clear that venting is just not doing the trick. Good luck.

 

 

I appriciate your concern, but i am already a member of such organisation that actively help people and donate my own money monthly. These "artists" piss me off like no other since they are the most vocal while doing the least. Previously, at least they managed to raise a debate with some insight, but now they are just dumb.

 

I dont know Meshugger but 2133 makes a good point here. Can I give you some advice that I learnt about living in South Africa. its much better to just say  " I dont want thousands of Syrian Muslims immigrating to Finland because we have such different  cultures  " ...you don't even need to justify it because there is no country in the world that would be fine with it under the circumstances unless you prepare to accept them like Germany or like Sweden you really believe in the social aspect 

 

But what you are doing, or rather what it probably seems for others, is finding actually irrelevant or contradictory reasons that come across as you being racist ot bigoted. Now you shouldn't have to feel like that but if you take what 2133 is saying he is right yet I know thats not what you are really saying 

 

Its funny but living in the West sometimes we feel because of our past we can''t ever say " no I would prefer only limited migrants " as that would seem racist.

 

 

It's just because you're close-minded. One can have altruism for others, while still wishing the best of your own people. It is possible

 

But you must realize thats not how you coming across ...hence the reason people like alum and 2133 challenge you on some things 

 

 

So? Even if it gets heated, it is a debate afterall. Ideas exchanged, etc, etc.

 

It would be quite worse if we all just got along, yuck!

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be sure to tell to the next rape victim of 22 year old Afghani "child" that she should be grateful that she was enriched by the next Steve Jobs in the making.

 

See what i did there? I used the same logic right back in order to show what kind of infentile idea that is. One is called trolling, the other an artistic message for the press to report, but basically the same thing. Bansky should import all the refugees as he can to his own house if he supports it so much instead playing high and mighty on other people's tax money. God forbid for any sane approach to the problem when there's these kinds of idiots around.

 

Yeah, only a poorly thought-out post that you composed in less than five minutes cannot really compare to a mural and even in this day and age would not be considered art by anyone. Feel free to go draw up a rape scene involving refugees on the side of the town hall, though.

 

And hey: if you care so much about the victims of such rapes, why aren't you devoting every single free second of your time to help rape victims? There are volunteer organizations for this as well as career choices you can make to help people, you know. (see what I did there?)

 

But it isn't about people at all, but rather your own issues, yes? Maybe get help? It's clear that venting is just not doing the trick. Good luck.

 

 

I appriciate your concern, but i am already a member of such organisation that actively help people and donate my own money monthly. These "artists" piss me off like no other since they are the most vocal while doing the least. Previously, at least they managed to raise a debate with some insight, but now they are just dumb.

 

I dont know Meshugger but 2133 makes a good point here. Can I give you some advice that I learnt about living in South Africa. its much better to just say  " I dont want thousands of Syrian Muslims immigrating to Finland because we have such different  cultures  " ...you don't even need to justify it because there is no country in the world that would be fine with it under the circumstances unless you prepare to accept them like Germany or like Sweden you really believe in the social aspect 

 

But what you are doing, or rather what it probably seems for others, is finding actually irrelevant or contradictory reasons that come across as you being racist ot bigoted. Now you shouldn't have to feel like that but if you take what 2133 is saying he is right yet I know thats not what you are really saying 

 

Its funny but living in the West sometimes we feel because of our past we can''t ever say " no I would prefer only limited migrants " as that would seem racist.

 

 

It's just because you're close-minded. One can have altruism for others, while still wishing the best of your own people. It is possible

 

But you must realize thats not how you coming across ...hence the reason people like alum and 2133 challenge you on some things 

 

 

So? Even if it gets heated, it is a debate afterall. Ideas exchanged, etc, etc.

 

It would be quite worse if we all just got along, yuck!

 

No you misunderstand me, of course debate is good

 

I'm saying people are getting the wrong idea about you and why you say certain things ...thats not the same thing as a good debate

[Chilloutman]

For god sake Bruce, start using that quote function properly

[BruceVC]

For god sake Bruce, start using that quote function properly

Okay sure, I know people say they don't like it but why is this an issue?>

[Chilloutman]

 

For god sake Bruce, start using that quote function properly

Okay sure, I know people say they don't like it but why is this an issue?>

 

 

Because I have to scroll through walls of text i already seen and at top are no longer relevant to actual topic of discussion

[Darkpriest]

And it looks awful on mobile

[BruceVC]

And it looks awful on mobile

 

 

 

For god sake Bruce, start using that quote function properly

Okay sure, I know people say they don't like it but why is this an issue?>

 

 

Because I have to scroll through walls of text i already seen and at top are no longer relevant to actual topic of discussion

 

 

And it looks awful on mobile

No problem, I understand your reasons...you see if someone from a first world country  like the USA or EU had asked me I would have assumed they were being lazy but I know you guys don't complain for no reason due to your history 

[Malcador]

Refugees are amazing PR here, PM and local premier got photo ops and it is a good sell for Canada,heh.

 

Had to laugh when a reporter was jerking it to Canada for not being like Hungary. Comparable situations.

 

Apparently they can't find housing, some landlords want a year's rent up front. These are privately sponsored ones, mind you. Public ones get our crappy government housing.

[BruceVC]

Refugees are amazing PR here, PM and local premier got photo ops and it is a good sell for Canada,heh.

 

Had to laugh when a reporter was jerking it to Canada for not being like Hungary. Comparable situations.

 

Apparently they can't find housing, some landlords want a year's rent up front. These are privately sponsored ones, mind you. Public ones get our crappy government housing.

So when you say Public housing do you have photos..also does Canada pay for that ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

And it looks awful on mobile

 

pc master race ftw

[Chilloutman]

No problem, I understand your reasons...you see if someone from a first world country  like the USA or EU had asked me I would have assumed they were being lazy but I know you guys don't complain for no reason due to your history 

I am from EU

[Darkpriest]

Bruce still thinks that we have Warsaw pact Iron Curtain etc. ;p

[BruceVC]

 

No problem, I understand your reasons...you see if someone from a first world country  like the USA or EU had asked me I would have assumed they were being lazy but I know you guys don't complain for no reason due to your history 

I am from EU

 

Yes but you also understand life under Communism...you know how bad things can be

 

Do you think people who never lived under the USSR understand it? 

[Chilloutman]

 

 

No problem, I understand your reasons...you see if someone from a first world country  like the USA or EU had asked me I would have assumed they were being lazy but I know you guys don't complain for no reason due to your history 

I am from EU

 

Yes but you also understand life under Communism...you know how bad things can be

 

Do you think people who never lived under the USSR understand it? 

 

 

I have talked about it with my boss from UK/Scotland who is hardcore socialist, he was unnable to get even a glympse . but I was lucky that i was living in it only like year or two

[BruceVC]

Bruce still thinks that we have Warsaw pact Iron Curtain etc. ;p

Guys please don't assume I am as ignorant as some about East European countries

 

I am just amazed that you think admitting you Polish is something that you need to keep secret, I never told you I have had several Polish friends in SA. One of  my ex-Girlfriends was from Poland. Her name was Alicja Grakalska (spelling on surname )..anyway she was a really nice person and she was a professional pole dancer. I always use to tease her when I saw her and pretend to speak Russian...but she had no accent, she always use to laugh. When she got married to a good friend of mine we had a South African and Polish wedding

 

You see this is one of the problems with the EU and why some of you guys feel threatened by the  Syrians , there is this bizarre historical resentment of Germany and then you guys think that the fact you come from East Europe somehow is a bad thing because of historical biased from some European countries ..." look its the Slavs "  ....alum actually thought I was suggesting the country of Hungary is genetically more inclined to commit rape

 

Sorry I'm not going to suggest there is something wrong with you or suggest you are all ignorant. There is nothing wrong with any of your countries but the fact you seem to think there is actually a self-repeating stereotype. You are all white to us in Africa ...you are all European to us. It makes no difference ....be proud of where you come from

 

I am not trying to make you feel guilty but I live in a country where large numbers of people have a real lack of confidence and feel they have no heritage.... 

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

No problem, I understand your reasons...you see if someone from a first world country  like the USA or EU had asked me I would have assumed they were being lazy but I know you guys don't complain for no reason due to your history 

I am from EU

 

Yes but you also understand life under Communism...you know how bad things can be

 

Do you think people who never lived under the USSR understand it? 

 

 

I have talked about it with my boss from UK/Scotland who is hardcore socialist, he was unnable to get even a glympse . but I was lucky that i was living in it only like year or two

 

Its annoying when people who have never lived under Communism but live now in first world countries complain and say things like " Communism is more fairer than Capitalism" ...yes I respect some countries prefer the USSR like Mam War but he is more the exception 

[Chilloutman]

well I am sure east eurepeans are not ashamed that they are from east, sometimes west europeans having trouble with it for some strange reason maybe

[BruceVC]

well I am sure east eurepeans are not ashamed that they are from east, sometimes west europeans having trouble with it for some strange reason maybe

No there is some issue still there about where they come from, Dark wouldn't even tell me where he lived  when I first asked him  and alum snapped at me and assumed something when I asked him

 

I hope I'm not  embarrassing you guys but its better to just discuss these things so there  is nothing weird or strange about where you live 

Edited December 18, 2015 by BruceVC

[Darkpriest]

 

well I am sure east eurepeans are not ashamed that they are from east, sometimes west europeans having trouble with it for some strange reason maybe

No there is some issue still there about where they come from, Dark wouldn't even tell me where he lived  when I first asked him  and alum snapped at me and assumed something when I asked him

 

I hope I'm not  embarrassing you guys but its better to just discuss these things so there  is nothing weird or strange about where you live 

 

 

Because I wanted to avoid needless tags. People from Western EU, US, Canda, Scandinavia, and generally rich countries, perceive people from CEE as "beggars" and sometimes worse.

 

It would not be the case if a lot of people from CEE would not go to other countries and do some simple jobs, even when holding masters degree... and why? because salaries in the CEE countries are relatively small,  while prices are on near West EU level, with exception of rents, public transport and general grocery products + health care/beauty related services - like dental services and plastic surgery.

 

Here, example from Poland, which uses median (gross salary, so you need to take away taxes and social insurance deductions, which amount to roughly 30% in the lowest range). Remember that 1USD is around 3,93PLN and 1EUR is around 4,27PLN

 

(data for 2014)

 

while for example a price of a perfume i recently bought for myself, because i am used to it (Channel Home Allure 150ml) is 609PLN (includes VAT), 40cm radius pizza (with like 5-6 ingredients) costs around 35-40PLN

 

And Poland is one of the richer CEE countries.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Darkpriest

[BruceVC]

 

 

well I am sure east eurepeans are not ashamed that they are from east, sometimes west europeans having trouble with it for some strange reason maybe

No there is some issue still there about where they come from, Dark wouldn't even tell me where he lived  when I first asked him  and alum snapped at me and assumed something when I asked him

 

I hope I'm not  embarrassing you guys but its better to just discuss these things so there  is nothing weird or strange about where you live 

 

 

Because I wanted to avoid needless tags. People from Western EU, US, Canda, Scandinavia, and generally rich countries, perceive people from CEE as "beggars" and sometimes worse.

 

It would not be the case if a lot of people from CEE would not go to other countries and do some simple jobs, even when holding masters degree... and why? because salaries in the CEE countries are relatively small,  while prices are on near West EU level, with exception of rents, public transport and general grocery products + health care/beauty related services - like dental services and plastic surgery.

 

Here, example from Poland, which uses median (gross salary, so you need to take away taxes and social insurance deductions, which amount to roughly 30% in the lowest range). Remember that 1USD is around 3,93PLN and 1EUR is around 4,27PLN

 

 

while for example a price of a perfume i recently bought for myself, because i am used to it (Channel Home Allure 150ml) is 609PLN (includes VAT), 40cm radius pizza costs around 35-40PLN

 

And Poland is one of the richer CEE countries.

 

Yes I understand what you say some people think about Poland, we have property in London and the one day I was watching a protest from the BNP and there is nothing more annoying than watching fellow white people who  are not only racist but ignorant..anyway they were complaining about the all the illegal " Polish and Romanians\Hungarians" living in the UK " living off the social services " ...basically implying you guys were parasites

 

Also  my dad was telling me in his day everyone use to joke about Polish people ....but my point is so what? You need to look at the reality of EU

 

So firstly as you know I really believe in the EU but we need to be honest about some things, so lets look at the " old Europe " view of East European countries. Yes there was a time where Poland, Hungary, Romania  would have been looked down on by some people. But now we have an EU where the country that was defeated in 2 world wars is the dominant and influential....yet they have no army?

How is that possible ....funny enough that  is a question some people in "old Europe "  ask themselves and they feel a sense of resentment towards the Germans. But the realty is Germany absolutely deserves to be such a dominant economy, they were able to recreate themselves out of the inferno of shame of Nazism and economic defeat. They could have given up....people like Lexx on this forum is German and yet he refuses to give his country any credit and says things like " what Germany has done anyone could have done "  I don't blame him for this view.  I am not here to tell people to be proud of the EU, you guys will naturally appreciate your way of life if its ever threatened by external forces like Islamic Extremism. And this basically includes most people on this forum who live in the EU but seem to think its weird to say "I'm proud to live in Netherlands " ( TN and Hoonding especially unpatriotic ) 

 

Anyway so now there are people in  old Europe who can't accept that Germany is the most influential power in the region....they seem to live in the past where they think WW2 matters....so first thing those are the type of people who look down on East Europeans and rely on insults to justify there importance. But now what matters is the economic factor of any country in the EU. This is correct, in previous times it was about military success but the EU doesn't need an army. It has our American friends, the UK and France to address the military aspect

 

So as far as I know Poland was considered a rising and economic star...I'm not sure if that is still true with the right wing government ? But CNN has done numerous documentaries of Poland called " Poland Rising" and my Polish friend tells me how well the country is doing 

 

So if I was you and any other East European I would just ask myself " why do I care about bigots in countries  who aren't even the most relevant anymore " 

 

But then it gets worse for " old Europe " ....the mighty and historical PIGS countries, the birthplaces of Democracy ...the places that have always existed and always will as they " don't really need to work hard and maintain good governance" .. no not them. Everyone else in the EU like your countries, Scandinavian  countries and Baltic states gets down and works hard but suddenly after 2008 various levels of mismanagement and economic incompetence is exposed in these PIGS countries

 

This is actually an embarrassment ...well it should be  because the reality is there are African countries who  are working harder than  these PIGS countries and they work harder under much worse conditions . I work in the financial section and what was asked of the PIGS countries was nothing unreasonable ...seriously. People like 2133 will claim how imperialistic and dictatorial Germany and the EU Troika became. How unreasonable the austerity is....and you know what? Its quite amazing how everyone else in the EU can maintain the rules of the EU..in fact the EU Troika gave countries like Greece many chances. I'm sorry but why should We feel sorry for any country from a prestigious region like the EU for not maintaining its own economy ?

 

So now back to Poland and other East European countries. I am absolutely amazed that you may feel you are not legitimate and proven members of the EU? Under the last few years why you would feel inferior just doesn't make sense 

 

And  I am very supportive of the EU but its all about the economic success  and this is a good benchmark 

[Darkpriest]

I never said that we feel inferior, we don't, at least I definitely do not feel so. However, as the graph shows, we are still way behind in terms of personal wealth for many citizens.

 

This is the main issue, 1st raised when there was the crisis with so called "PIGS", especially Greece - because for a lot of people, in their perspective, people there were simply parasites, getting more from "cheating" government, than what they earn, while working hard in their own country.

 

now the 2nd time - with the refugees - those people in the perspective of many are nothing more than parasite troublemakers, they do not assimilate, do not add value, and only increase crime rates, especially the most serious ones like rape and murder, and at the same time they would be getting from the state more than nearly 50% of people who work hard everyday to earn their share of money. In their view it's not their problem, and it's the problem of those richer countries. It also resonates hard that in a lot of cases EU countries had a long period of restrictions for hiring people coming from the CEE EU part after these countries entered EU, and now people from a completely different region of the world, causing mostly trouble are treated better than the fellow EU members were in their days of early admission.

 

Last but not least - these countries have only 25 years of true freedom, and they do not really like the increasing strong influence of centralized EU institutions. We've seen this before during the Soviet block and it only led to social deterioration and general decrease of wealth, and that was without issues with non-assimilating alien cultures and increasing numbers of non-EU native residents.

 

Yes, while CEE countries objectively changed a lot during the last 25 years, and even though in last 15 years the av. monthly wage doubled from 500 USD to 1100 USD (and it would be even more spectacular if we would take the 1990 as the starting point), this 1100 USD a month is not achievable by 50% of working residents... 1100 USD a month is probably not even a minimum wage now in most of Western EU and NA countries - so yeah, while the growth had been amazing, and changes are clearly visible, only around 3% of people earn more than 3000 USD a month, and this is a bare minimum of your typical middle class in "richer" Western countries.

 

In case of Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, etc. the picture is probably even worse.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Darkpriest]

On another note - more divisions among EU countries:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-leaders-tackle-terrorism-wake-paris-attacks-115806693.html