Madmhr Bridge Forced Encounter Stunlock

[Bazy]

Doing my first Trail of Iron solo run... zone into Madmhr bride.... forced encounter with Xuarip who perma paralyzes me...

 

Absolutely no counter-play... Not cool. Why is there a forced encounter with a possible perma stun?

[AndreaColombo]

What level were you?

 

Xaurips notoriously have paralyzing spears but they shouldn't be too much of an issue. Madmhr Bridge is an optional area, by the way: You don't need to go there and, quite frankly, unless you're doing the bounties (which are usually skipped by TCS players) there ain't much reason too.

[Bazy]

I was level 4. 

 

Not interested in meta-gaming just to play a solo run. 

[AndreaColombo]

That's fair, but you need to understand that the game was not balanced around the assumption that you'd make a solo run. There are areas and/or encounters that are going to be too difficult to tackle solo, which is why TCS players tend to use meta-knowledge to skip them. Level 4 could be fine for Madmhr Bridge if you were in a party but for solo yeah, it's a bit early on. What was your character build?

Edited November 20, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Bazy]

Of course. That's the fun of a solo run. Knowing which fights you can handle and which ones to avoid. 

[mosspit]

I was level 4. 

 

Not interested in meta-gaming just to play a solo run.

 

 

Of course. That's the fun of a solo run. Knowing which fights you can handle and which ones to avoid.

 

Pardon my ignorance to buzzwords, but isn't "Knowing which fights you can handle and which ones to avoid" an aspect of "meta-gaming"?

[Bazy]

You are being pretty literal. I do not mean meta-gaming. I suppose "estimate" would be a more precise term. 

[mosspit]

Hey, whatever floats your boat  

[PrimeJunta]

You will be restarting many, many times if you're playing solo/trial of iron at any difficulty and don't know the game inside-out. That's just the way it's built. If you don't like it, don't play it that way.

[Bazy]

Wait... what?

 

You were the author of one of my favorite threads and stated:

 

"So Josh announced that PE won't do GM sucker punches. Meaning, encounters you're only likely to beat the second, third, or fourth time around because beating them requires foreknowledge of what you're going to be facing and how.

 

That is good in my opinion. I always thought this kind of thing was lazy design masquerading as challenge. However, it's not obvious how the game will or should play with this element removed. Something could be lost. In particular, I think preparation is a fairly important gameplay element in the IE games, whether we're talking about spell lists, pre-buffs, or weapon loadouts. I would not like to lose that. Conversely, I also get a kick out of beating an encounter even when I wasn't properly prepared."

 

You even state your preferred style is:

 

New Vegas style. The game provides you with information about each enemy type through a variety of mechanisms. If you pay attention you can figure out how to fight them before you have to. If not, you can still play by trial and error. Encounters are balanced to be punishing if you play them wrong.

 

(https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65944-no-more-gm-sucker-punches-and-the-gameplay-challenges-thereof/)

 

And Mr. Sawyer agreed with you:

"Where I draw the line are single-check long-duration incapacitation effects against which hard counters are the only practical defense.  Their effects on combat and the immediate aftermath promote reloading and metagaming more than in-the-moment adaptation to temporary or progressive incapacitation.  Yeah, you can lose a fight via progressive aggregation of damage over 30 seconds to 2 minutes.  This is a different type of problem with a more diverse variety of solutions than a fight you lose (or win a Pyrrhic victory) in 12 seconds because a basilisk waxed two party members as soon as you came around the corner."

 

That's what the encounter at Madhmr bridge is... a sucker punch. And playing solo is no reason to abandon this reasoning... As Mr. Sawyer has also said:

 

If you want to play the game solo, or with all wizards, or murdering everyone, that's all fine.  It's still my responsibility to make sure that all of these options maintain a good level of player engagement and enjoyment across the spectrum.  Balancing and tuning is an ongoing process, but that's what I'm trying to do.

 

 

I'm baffled how anyone can defend a forced encounter while zoning into a low level map for the first time with a RNG possibility for a perma stun sucker punch of a supported playstyle. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Bazy

[Doppelschwert]

I'm pretty sure that I read the exact same complaint about this xaurip before, and I even vaguely remember that he got moved or something in a patch? Can't find it in the forum search.

 

Either people wanted the xaurip to be moved because it attacked on sight while entering the map or it actually was moved slightly away so it wouldn't, something along these lines.

 

Edit: Here you go:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76488-triple-crown-solo-tips-and-tricks-lets-compare-notes/

 

 

I'm also pretty sure that you can find a quote by josh where he says that the game is explicitly not balanced for solo play, and that they just don't want to force you to play with a party. If you want to solo play, then that's on you - they give you the option, but they don't promote it. At least, that's the official stance I remember, so feel free to correct me if this is wrong.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Doppelschwert

[rheingold]

Corr

I'm pretty sure that I read the exact same complaint about this xaurip before, and I even vaguely remember that he got moved or something in a patch? Can't find it in the forum search.

 

Either people wanted the xaurip to be moved because it attacked on sight while entering the map or it actually was moved slightly away so it wouldn't, something along these lines.

 

Edit: Here you go:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76488-triple-crown-solo-tips-and-tricks-lets-compare-notes/

 

 

I'm also pretty sure that you can find a quote by josh where he says that the game is explicitly not balanced for solo play, and that they just don't want to force you to play with a party. If you want to solo play, then that's on you - they give you the option, but they don't promote it. At least, that's the official stance I remember, so feel free to correct me if this is wrong.

 

Correctomundo it's not the first complaint about that poor lost xaurip but as people have said:

A it's optional

B the game is not balanced for solo

C if you come from a different direction on the world map you can arrive from a different side and not encounter the xaurip. Think it's from defiance bay direction.

So not sure why the devs should change/move encounters physically because of a tiny minority. Also might add, I appreciate landing on a new screen and engaging immediately in combat, we should get ambushed more often.

[Doppelschwert]

Also might add, I appreciate landing on a new screen and engaging immediately in combat, we should get ambushed more often.

The first time I went to searing falls, I left the game running to go to the toilet. When I came back, the party was in the middle of a fight with a patroling drake, that was quite a memorable surprise.

 

I agree, ambushes would be really nice, but only without scripted positioning of the party like at the end of the skaen cult.

[PrimeJunta]

@Bazy Pillars was not designed to be played blind, solo, and Trial of Iron. If it was, then yes, that would qualify as a sucker punch. 

 

But, it wasn't. It was designed to be played with a party. That means that a lot -- a LOT -- of combat challenges that are fair but tough assuming you have a competently built and played full party will kill you dead fast if you go into them solo. Not the same thing.

[Merina]

At Madhmr Bridge I had the summoning horn from Gilded Vale already and survived the encounter.

 

Sometime later I had less success with my first TCS attempt against four phantoms and two shadows in the keep's great hall ... what a disappointment! ... Much much worse than a single xaurip skirmisher. The summoned Animat barely survived long enough for my chanter to get the first phantom. I managed to talk to the steward, open the door and get down into the dungeon ... and above, the groups now wait near the front door.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Merina

[anameforobsidian]

It may stop you from doing this, but can you go beat Maerwald and then out through the Endless Paths?  BTW Maerwald will fight the spiders and beetles below him if you pull both.

Edited February 15, 2016 by anameforobsidian

[PrimeJunta]

BTW isn't there a way to get to Madhmr Bridge from the west also? That way you won't bump into that pesky xaurip. Could be I'm misremembering...

[anameforobsidian]

You can also just run away from the Xaurip.  The vast majority of the classes have escape abilities or pets.  I had to run away from enemies all the time when I soloed.

[Merina]

It may stop you from doing this, but can you go beat Maerwald and then out through the Endless Paths?  BTW Maerwald will fight the spiders and beetles below him if you pull both.

 

First I would need to reach Maerwald, ... but I cannot rest on the prison level ... I cannot summon the animat anymore, since it is once per rest only. And there are too many spiders for a single chanter and Trial of Iron mode.

 

BTW isn't there a way to get to Madhmr Bridge from the west also? That way you won't bump into that pesky xaurip. Could be I'm misremembering...

 

Not that I know of. There's a way out to the west, but no way in from Anslög's Compass area.

 

You can also just run away from the Xaurip.  The vast majority of the classes have escape abilities or pets.  I had to run away from enemies all the time when I soloed.

 

You've completed a TCS run?

 

It's an immediate attack by a Xaurip Skirmisher ... you would need to break engagement and risk a hit that would Paralyze you.

 

The vast majority of the classes have escape abilities? Which classes are that ... at level 4? It's still more than 2000 XP to level 5.

[anameforobsidian]

I got my PotD solo barbarian to Twin Elms and didn't go any further.  I maxed level, saw what I wanted to see, and wasn't enjoying it past a certain point.  I got my triple crown solo chanter to Defiance Bay before stopping for similar reasons.

 

Personally I think the fight in the throne room is complete bull****, and surviving it is heavily luck based.  But personally I think specters should be mid-level enemies; I've never enjoyed fighting them early game and played through a bunch of times.

[Merina]

Personally I think the fight in the throne room is complete bull****, and surviving it is heavily luck based.

 

It's unsafe enough ... that even a retrained chanter with max RES, Minor Ring of Deflection and Weapon and Shield talent is hit too often. I had hoped that TCS would require me to rest with a bonus, eat some food, prepare some potions and scrolls ... but not that I would need to try this fight dozens of times or search for a tiny corner in the great hall where maybe only a single phantom can target me.

 

Edit: max Resolve

Edited February 16, 2016 by Merina

[anameforobsidian]

This isn't an option in the throne room, but maybe the spiders will let you run away.  Start the fight, charm one as a sacrifice, and run away.  A lot of the TCS I played was made much simpler by running away and picking off large groups one at a time.  (If you look at TCS finishes on youtube, they frequently use summons to draw boss aggro out of player range and take them down one at a time.  It'll be interesting to see if that still works.

 

BTW I found the shade fight was heavily dependent on making sure you had a couple scrolls of fan of flames and a fair bit of luck.  That spell is like wraith cryptonite.  Also, if you have to do it again, make sure you have pick up Whispers of Yenwood from the vase at the entrance.

Edited February 16, 2016 by anameforobsidian

[Merina]

Ancient videos on youtube don't interest me ... as they are for POE 1.0 something and don't apply to 2.03 and later anymore. They serve as misleading examples.

 

Now in my growing manual: To enter Madhmr Bridge from the west where no Xaurip Skirmisher is waiting ... one first needs to activate the area on the world map by leaving Black Meadow to the south and then not travel to Madhmr Bridge from there. Later, one can travel from Gilded Vale or Magran's Fork directly to Madhmr Bridge west entry.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Merina