[CLASS BUILD] The Backlash Beldam (melee multiretaliation cipher tank)

[Boeroer]

No Idea to be honest - He always spawns them as soon as I hit him.

[Elric Galad]

I just realized that this build would be quite easy to adapt for a rogue, and should work very well on the Devil of Caroc.

 

Let's call it "The Devil wears Supa" build.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Yeah - it's also good with a barb (with his new raw damage retaliation) and a monk (resonant touch is hard to trigger with retaliation - but rooting pain gets nicely supported by all the retaliation and battle forge hits for absurd numbers - I guess it also profits from Turning Wheel and stuff).

[ottffsse]

Did they nerf the deep wounds retaliation combo BTW?

 

Because although it's not quite the same thing it's similar: I just tested glittering gauntlets on a retaliation build and unfortunately that doesn't work the gauntlets only apply daze on a weapon hit and not retaliation hit.

[Boeroer]

Oh that's sad. I hope it works with carnage.

 

Deep Wounds with retaliation worked in 2.03. Didn't test 3.0 yet.

 

What also doesn't seem to work is retaliation + Resonant Touch. There are way too few touches building up when I stand in the middle of a mob. Only Rooting Pain seems to work. Don't know yet for sure.

 

I so hope they don't nerf Deep Wounds in combination with spells. It's the only way to make it really good.

[prototype00]

So intrigued by the possibility of a tanker Cipher I made this build. (Normal, I'm afraid, not feeling like going hardcore yet).

 

Still in the early game but a couple of my thoughts and questions:

 

1. Early game, before Retaliation items are obtained, is it not better to go double Sabres and play like a rogue? Even single sabre and shield (small) was not generating focus fast enough.

 

2. I'd kind of like to save my neck slot for something stat boosty, is that a bad idea if I already have the supper plate and the coat of I'll payment?

 

3. How important is attack speed to this build? With 10 Dex and heavy armour im guessing not very but I thought I'd check.

 

4. Once retaliation is up how should I be running him in combat? Rush in like a tank? Side engage like a rogue? What Cipher spells should I prioritise? I'm guessing not whispers of treason and paralysis first? (Less Retaliation generation)

 

Thanks for posting the build, look forward to running it in my game !

[Boeroer]

Hi!

 

1.: Sure, you can do that.

2.: No, that's ok. Potion of Flame Shield will be enough (hope it still generates focus post 2.03).

3.: After you have two retaliations it's not very important. Casting speed is not very fast of course. It helps to have friends who help with concentration and/or RES buffs.

4.: That really depends on your party and type of enemy. Against fast hitting enemies who don't deal a lot of damage per hit it's best to rush in and get grazed a lot. Against Ogres (fewer hits but lots of damage per hit) I wouldn't do that. If you have a paladin with Reinforcing Exhortation and Zealous Endurance or a priest with defelction and DR buffs you can do way more tanking even against nastier foes. The new Psychovampiric Shield is also very good for this build and for tankin. Back in 2.03 it gave you way less deflection. Now it's great and I would say: cast Psychovampiric Shield and then rush in!

 

Basically you want to get grazed as much as possible and at the same time get stack as much DR as possible. That way you will generate a lot of focus while your endurance won't suffer too much. 

[Shalva]

Hi Boeroer

 

I have one question about full PoTD run, with WM1 and WM2. In your opinion which playthrough will be easier: PC Backlash Beldam, Kana (Drake's Ambassador), Hiravias (Batsh!t build), Pallegina (Engineer), Aloth (Hurtstacker) and Sagani (Stormcaller) or with your current setup with two Drake's Ambassadors ? 

[Boeroer]

Erm - good question and hard to know. I think it will be equally easy, if not easier. And it's pretty easy as it is so far (ACT III).  

[prototype00]

Basically you want to get grazed as much as possible and at the same time get stack as much DR as possible. That way you will generate a lot of focus while your endurance won't suffer too much. 

 

So does that mean I want to be helping the Knights of the Crucible in Defiance bay for their faction perk? (And maybe getting 7 points in Survival for DR +2 might be nice too)? I've heard others poo poo these options, but if every little bit of DR helps...

 

prototype00

[Shalva]

Erm - good question and hard to know. I think it will be equally easy, if not easier. And it's pretty easy as it is so far (ACT III).

 

I have already made both characters, Backlash Beldam and Drake's Ambassador. For me Act I is much easier with Drake's Ambassador (with the team mentioned above). I was just wondering will it be different in Act III with proper equipment.

 

I uderstand that finally Backlash Bedlam will be more powerful and still have good synergy with that team, or I'm wrong?

[Boeroer]

Yes, the Backlash Beldam starts like an ordinary melee cipher and only gets fancy when you manage to get retaliation items and if you are able to crat your own potions of flame shield.

And then later - with the new high level power Defensive Mind Web and Reaping Knives the cipher totally rocks the house.

 

But in 3.0 also the chanter keeps on getting better an better because the Brisk Recitation and so on. 

 

I will put it like this: If you like casting a lot I would use the cipher, if you like low micro then use the chanter.

[Boeroer]

 

Basically you want to get grazed as much as possible and at the same time get stack as much DR as possible. That way you will generate a lot of focus while your endurance won't suffer too much. 

 

So does that mean I want to be helping the Knights of the Crucible in Defiance bay for their faction perk? (And maybe getting 7 points in Survival for DR +2 might be nice too)? I've heard others poo poo these options, but if every little bit of DR helps...

 

prototype00

 

How is +4 DR poo poo?

 

Sure - the +15 ACC from survival is better if you know what to expect. But against kith enemies there is no ACC bonus. So +2 DR is the next best option.

Merciless Hand or Mob Justice make no sense for the Backlash Beldam. +2 DR totally does.  

[Ymarsakar]

I've come to like the chanter as a tank, because the aoe death chant draws a lot of attention and it's free. Stacking every defensive talent around on one character. Probably affects the chanter the least.

 

Now that the outlander's frenzy is per encounter, I was wondering if it might be useful for some caster builds, to speed up their cast rates like when the wizard uses the +50% deleterious alacrity all the time. Lowering deflection on the cipher might also be useful if the enemy has too low of an ACC.

 

The new cipher in 3.0 feels much easier to gain and regain focus, via amplified thrust, while maintaining single target dps. I was thinking of switching my build order for the ranged cipher, so I got two ciphers, one MC and GM, and did a comparison between melee/heavy armor vs ranged/guns talent wise. 

 

I found out I probably want a ranged weapon, but the talents will be going into defense, probably. The BatS build looks pretty interesting as well, I always thought about putting hiravias on the front to make use of his cone attacks, but never got around to it.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Ymarsakar

[Boeroer]

That's nice to hear.

[Ymarsakar]

Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I was doing some experimentation with a level 14 priest, and realized that the level 6 spell (or maybe level 5) spark of the something or other, caused a buff on a party member and gave them a retaliation like effect in the combat log every few seconds.

 

So I cast it on a cipher to see if that was recognized as a cipher retaliation for focus gains, and it was.

 

So good synergy for defensive melee cipher and a priest at higher levels. POE WM 3.01

Edited March 9, 2016 by Ymarsakar

[Dorftek]

That's nice to hear.

Been playing this backlash cipher solo on hard for a bit, currently lvl 8 with Hiros and supper. Working out really good. Currently using Äru Bekr armour and eating sugar for antipathetic field kiting when there's too many mobs and the soloing power of this class is amazing! Can't imagine what could beat this class in solo gameplay? Ty for sharing this idea!

[Crucis]

I've come to like the chanter as a tank, because the aoe death chant draws a lot of attention and it's free. Stacking every defensive talent around on one character. Probably affects the chanter the least.

 

Now that the outlander's frenzy is per encounter, I was wondering if it might be useful for some caster builds, to speed up their cast rates like when the wizard uses the +50% deleterious alacrity all the time. Lowering deflection on the cipher might also be useful if the enemy has too low of an ACC.

 

The new cipher in 3.0 feels much easier to gain and regain focus, via amplified thrust, while maintaining single target dps. I was thinking of switching my build order for the ranged cipher, so I got two ciphers, one MC and GM, and did a comparison between melee/heavy armor vs ranged/guns talent wise. 

 

I found out I probably want a ranged weapon, but the talents will be going into defense, probably. The BatS build looks pretty interesting as well, I always thought about putting hiravias on the front to make use of his cone attacks, but never got around to it.

 

Chanters seem to be wonderful tanks with the right stats and equipment.  And the best part about getting them in the front line is that should mean that there are potentially more enemies within the area of your chants, particularly the Dragon Thrashed, the Dragon Wailed fire/slashing chant.

[Dorftek]

The dragon Thrashed is OP and gamebreaking IMO. Just pick all the defensive stuff on your turtle chanter and he will still melt all the mobs around him. I had two chanters run the first 8 lvls of endless paths on lvl 9 and they just destroyed everything while being extremely durable.

[Boeroer]

Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I was doing some experimentation with a level 14 priest, and realized that the level 6 spell (or maybe level 5) spark of the something or other, caused a buff on a party member and gave them a retaliation like effect in the combat log every few seconds.

 

So I cast it on a cipher to see if that was recognized as a cipher retaliation for focus gains, and it was.

 

So good synergy for defensive melee cipher and a priest at higher levels. POE WM 3.01

Whoa! Totally missed that - thanks for the info, that'S very nice.

[Dr <3]

 

That's nice to hear.

Been playing this backlash cipher solo on hard for a bit, currently lvl 8 with Hiros and supper. Working out really good. Currently using Äru Bekr armour and eating sugar for antipathetic field kiting when there's too many mobs and the soloing power of this class is amazing! Can't imagine what could beat this class in solo gameplay? Ty for sharing this idea!

In my experiece Chanter (all def talents + maximized dragon chant) and wizard ( melee build, sword e shield that shift in a melee monster with llengrat displaced Image, alacrity, citazel staff) are by far stronger and more fun in solo.

When i play solo with chiper i feel always these problems:

1) a lot of the best power can't be used or can't target self ( pain block, amplified thrust, amplified wave, while with others class you live abusing your best spells/abilities

2) you need to do DMG ( or take a good chunk with backlash beldam build) for use spells. So any kind of disable hurt you much more than other class

3) i fell trapped in using only charms/ block people spell, all the rest are really underwhelming if you don' t have a party for abuse the bonus

Edited March 15, 2016 by Dr <3

[Dorftek]

 

 

That's nice to hear.

Been playing this backlash cipher solo on hard for a bit, currently lvl 8 with Hiros and supper. Working out really good. Currently using Äru Bekr armour and eating sugar for antipathetic field kiting when there's too many mobs and the soloing power of this class is amazing! Can't imagine what could beat this class in solo gameplay? Ty for sharing this idea!

In my experiece Chanter (all def talents + maximized dragon chant) and wizard ( melee build, sword e shield that shift in a melee monster with llengrat displaced Image, alacrity, citazel staff) are by far stronger and more fun in solo.

When i play solo with chiper i feel always these problems:

1) a lot of the best power can't be used or can't target self ( pain block, amplified thrust, amplified wave, while with others class you live abusing your best spells/abilities

2) you need to do DMG ( or take a good chunk with backlash beldam build) for use spells. So any kind of disable hurt you much more than other class

3) i fell trapped in using only charms/ block people spell, all the rest are really underwhelming if you don' t have a party for abuse the bonus

This is true, I know the chanter is beast, I also tried a sword and board wizard up until lvl 8 but the spells are too few imo but I spose you could use ur per rest spells for buffs and then use scrolls a lot too wich I never did.

I've been thinking about making a quickswitch 4 weapon slot Paladin with x2 leadsplitter + another blunderbuss and Sabre+shield in last slot.

[Boeroer]

 

 

I've been thinking about making a quickswitch 4 weapon slot Paladin with x2 leadsplitter + another blunderbuss and Sabre+shield in last slot. 

That's a common setup - and a powerful one. I did it with a 3 INT Paladin and it worked great (Sacred Immolation was gimped of course). You can also do this with a cipher. You will have tons of focus at the beginning of a fight (if you fire all shots after another) or when you need it (requires more micro throughout the fight). However - this is very micro heavy because the AI doesn't switch weapons (except when chars are mind controlled). So I only do this with one char maximum. Most of the time a char that needs a lot of micro anyway (like a cipher).

 

This retaliation cipher build is fun if you have all the necessary items - I don't know if it's the most powerful (cipher) build (I doubt it). And I really don't want to discuss that - because if you ask a hundred PoE players "Which is the best build ?" you will get 200 answers. And it would be lame to play "the best build" only. What would it be good for. Fun is key! Being bad is no fun - but being in godmode also isn't (after the initial "Whoohaa!").

 

It's a build that you don't have to babysit all the time and it's one of the builds that combines sturdyness with nice offensive capabilities. I hate frontliners who only soak up damage and do nothing else. It's so boring.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Boeroer

[Dr <3]

For the sake of discussion: i actually think yours is one of the best build for solo chiper, ad anything more oriented to DMG or pure range will end in be to squishi or in a pure kiting game that i really hate. Is solid and Pretty fun. What i dislike sadly is the solo chiper in itself, because like i said earlier all the best power require a target ally to work. You become figurine addicted for every fight. They don't work even on charmed enemies

[Boeroer]

Yeah - that's a bit sad. Would be funny if you could "abuse" your mind controlled enemies that way. Perhaps they should allow that for dominated, but not charmed enemies. Because I don't really know why dominated is considered the "stronger" affliction. It's acutally worse than charmed. Charmed enemies get debuffed like hell and will get killed by the other foes quickly - which is nice. Dominated enemies just flip alliance. How's that better? 

Edited March 15, 2016 by Boeroer