Attacks in Paris

[Qistina]

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

[Darkpriest]

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

 

By that reasoning we should expel all muslims from EU, because they create disharmony with the cultural background of the EU continent... I mean, how can you even compare Hate Speech leading to violence and mass murders vs. publishing a book? What is in it that creates disharmony? I mean I'd like to try to understand it... I just can't see it being anywhere on the same level of threat to civil population (knowing the christian rhetoric and how their leaders present themselves).

Edited November 16, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

 

I was going to respond about the number of ISIS fighters from the west and how a huuuge majority of them are second or third generation arabs living in self-segregated ghettos (http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-syria-iraq-is-isis-isil-infographic/26584940.html) but then you posted a jem like that. Don't ever leave, you're the gift that keeps on giving.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

wards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

By that reasoning we should expel all muslims from EU, because they create disharmony with the cultural background of the EU continent... I mean, how can you even compare Hate Speech leading to violence and mass murders vs. publishing a book? What is in it that creates disharmony? I mean I'd like to try to understand it... I just can't see it being anywhere on the same level of threat to civil population (knowing the christian rhetoric and how their leaders present themselves).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

Yes it may seem we are being critical of only Muslims who spread hate speech but I agree if the law in Malaysia says the Malaysian Bible needs to be banned then yes a raid would be justified

 

Malaysia is a Muslim country and like the Middle East if the government thinks a bible is creating disharmony then ban it

 

I'm not religious so I would leave this decision up to the actual governments. Guys we should understand this because if France does decide to close down certain Mosques there will be major resistance from certain Muslims in France and we should be consistent in our view that governments have a right to close down religious buildings but we cant complain if Malaysia decided to ban a bible as they should also have this right 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

 

I was going to respond about the number of ISIS fighters from the west and how a huuuge majority of them are second or third generation arabs living in self-segregated ghettos (http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/foreign-fighters-syria-iraq-is-isis-isil-infographic/26584940.html) but then you posted a jem like that. Don't ever leave, you're the gift that keeps on giving.

 

But this link tells us what we already knew, groups like ISIS always have support from foreigner fighters. This is typical of who supports them

 

What are you guys saying this link tells us ?

.

[Darkpriest]

I do agree that if there is a valid concern for security do it. However there is a difference between convert at gun point with do it or die msg and read the book and devide yourself

[BruceVC]

Guys for all of you who live in Europe before you agree to being fine with France closing down Mosques please understand what this will mean for all of you going forward. I'm not trying to an alarmist I just want you to understand what may possibly happen as a consequence 

 

Certain extremists will now look at the whole EU as a legitimate target, this is manageable but people  like Meshugger are you prepared to  accept Finland may get attacked?

 

If you Europeans are fine with this then stay the course, I would accept this if I was living in Europe 

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair

Sorry, but closing mosques, which serves to all of muslims, instead of bringing to justice the radical imams, which are spreading the hatespeach is retarded and will bring more death upon French, because it will be used only for propaganda of ISIS and their likes. It will solve nothing. Edited November 16, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

Touche'

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

As an American I find the combination of the words "Illegal" and "books" to be altogether alien concept. But hey, that's just how we are.

 

 

Now as far as what Darkpriest pointed out that France was considering closing Mosques. Bad idea. I'm all fine and good with arresting the Imams and religious leaders who violate French law by promoting sedition (this is illegal in France) but closing the Mosque becomes an attack on the institution itself. Do not become the monsters ISIS propaganda already say's you are. They want to refight the crusades with themselves cast in the role of the "morally superior aggrieved party" and the west as the "evil crusaders". The titles are meaningless in a practical sense but as others have pointed out it becomes an automatic and effective recruiting tool. Don't give them the role they crave. Don't assume the role they want you to assume. In the words of Napoleon Bonaparte "In war, moral factors acount for three quarters of the whole; relative material strength accounts for only one quarter."

Edited November 16, 2015 by Guard Dog

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting... there are voices within France's government saying that in addition to extended period of "Emergency State", they will be actions such as demolishing mosques in which speech of hate is present openly.

 

This might be a really big thing if true...

Yes, if these Mosques are allowing Hate Speech then you need to close them down...harsh but fair 

 

 

But yet you guys complaining my country police raid a church....

 

 

Do they openly manifest hatred towards citizens of your country and talk about infidels that need to be killed and your laws forcefully changed?

 

 

They create disharmony, their new version of Malaysian Bible causing too much already, despite it being banned, they insist on publish it. The raid is to confisticate those books, it's illegal books.

 

As an American I find the combination of the words "Illegal" and "books" to be altogether alien concept. But hey, that's just how we are.

 

 

Now as far as what Darkpriest pointed out that France was considering closing Mosques. Bad idea. I'm all fine and good with arresting the Imams and religious leaders who violate French law by promoting sedition (this is illegal in France) but closing the Mosque becomes an attack on the institution itself. Do not become the monsters ISIS propaganda already say's you are. They want to refight the crusades with themselves cast in the role of the "morally superior aggrieved party" and the west as the "evil crusaders". The titles are meaningless in a practical sense but as others have pointed out it becomes an automatic and effective recruiting tool.

 

I'm not sure about this, we are talking about closing down Mosques who practice hate speech....this would be made official and clearly seen as a punishment. You do realize that of course other extremists or just other Sunni Muslims who share ideological empathy with ISIS would have prayed and been aware of this attack so they are probably celebrating now at the success of the attack ...why shoulld Mosques like this be allowed to stay open?

 

Qistina what do you think? An eye for a eye, ISIS understands this type of dialogue

[Mamoulian War]

Closing mosques is a step against an religion, bringing imams which promote hatespeech to justice is step against criminal behaviour.

 

If people can bring to justice right wing nuts which promote antisemitism, I do not see a reason why people can't bring to justice religious nuts which promote violence against christians.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

Closing mosques is a step against an religion, bringing imams which promote hatespeech to justice is step against criminal behaviour.

 

If people can bring to justice right wing nuts which promote antisemitism, I do not see a reason why people can't bring to justice religious nuts which promote violence against christians.

I suppose ,,,,has Slovakia ever been the target of extremists?

[Elerond]

Closing mosques is most likely illegal (as it prevents ) as France is member of European Convention on Human Rights, which article 9 promises freedom to manifest a religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance (which means also freedom to establish and places of worship according to ECtHR case Manoussakis and others v. Greece

, §§36-53), but of course it is possible that those mosques belong to such Islamic religion that practices things that are against law and democratic society (what those things are one needs to read cases from).

[Mamoulian War]

We had a dozens of attacks of right wing extremists against gypsies and we had few months ago an right wing extremist attack against Saudi family walking on the street with their kid in pushchair (is this the right word for vehicle for small kids?) which were visiting graduation ceremony of their family member on University in Bratislava in last few years. They were attacking them with pavement stones.

 

We had people openly celebrating death of 70 refugees found in truck car in Austria.

 

We had even referendum, which promoted hatespeech against LGBT people. Thankfully our Highest Court have not allowed some of the questions, but still it happened and the TV advertisements promoting this referendum were disgusting.

 

Our prime minister is at the moment actively promoting anti-islamic tension based on fearmongering. He openly said that we will allow help for only Christian refugees from Syria as a part of his pre-election advertisement.

 

And of course some Slovaks are currently fighting in Ukraine on both sides of conflict.

 

I know it's futile compared to what has happend in Beirut on Russian plane over Egypt or in Paris. But hate against anything "non-slovak" and "non-christian" is rising with alarming trending especially among the teenagers and in population under age of 30.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Mamoulian War

[BruceVC]

Closing mosques is most likely illegal (as it prevents ) as France is member of European Convention on Human Rights, which article 9 promises freedom to manifest a religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance (which means also freedom to establish and places of worship according to ECtHR case Manoussakis and others v. Greece

, §§36-53), but of course it is possible that those mosques belong to such Islamic religion that practices things that are against law and democratic society (what those things are one needs to read cases from).

Elerond do you really think applying some obscure EU law is necessary

 

But something just occurred to me...I seem to debating with you guys who live in the EU about this,  I thought this was what you wanted but if not  then just  leave it

[BruceVC]

We had a dozens of attacks of right wing extremists against gypsies and we had few months ago an right wing extremist attack against Saudi family walking on the street with their kid in pushchair (is this the right word for vehicle for small kids?) which were visiting graduation ceremony of their family member on University in Bratislava in last few years. They were attacking them with pavement stones.

 

We had people openly celebrating death of 70 refugees found in truck car in Austria.

 

We had even referendum, which promoted hatespeech against LGBT people. Thankfully our Highest Court have not allowed some of the questions, but still it happened and the TV advertisements promoting this referendum were disgusting.

 

Our prime minister is at the moment actively promoting anti-islamic tension based on fearmongering. He openly said that we will allow help for only Christian refugees from Syria as a part of his pre-election advertisement.

 

And of course some Slovaks are currently fighting in Ukraine on both sides of conflict.

 

I know it's futile compared to what has happend in Beirut on Russian plane over Egypt or in Paris. But hate against anything "non-slovak" and "non-christian" is rising with alarming trending.

 Okay dude I apologize, you are more than aware of this type of event

 

I am sorry because I feel I know nothing about Slovakia yet I should. Do other EU members on this forum know about Slovakia?

[Elerond]

 

Closing mosques is most likely illegal (as it prevents ) as France is member of European Convention on Human Rights, which article 9 promises freedom to manifest a religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance (which means also freedom to establish and places of worship according to ECtHR case Manoussakis and others v. Greece

, §§36-53), but of course it is possible that those mosques belong to such Islamic religion that practices things that are against law and democratic society (what those things are one needs to read cases from).

Elerond do you really think applying some obscure EU law is necessary

 

But something just occurred to me...I seem to debating with you guys who live in the EU about this,  I thought this was what you wanted but if not  then just  leave it

 

 

It is not EU law it is European Convention on Human Rights, which is an international treaty to protect human rights and fundamental freedoms in Europe, article. Those are right that no individual state or even EU can change alone and all states that have signed it have promised to follow it and make sure that others follow it too. European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) is independent court that monitors that member states follow it, passes punishment for those who broke it and decides how things go when there aren't straightforward answer. So it is embodiment of human rights in Europe, not some obscure law.

[Darkpriest]

Well tbh it is starting to look like treading on a really thin line that is between freedom of speech and on the other side providing security for law abiding citizens...

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

We had a dozens of attacks of right wing extremists against gypsies and we had few months ago an right wing extremist attack against Saudi family walking on the street with their kid in pushchair (is this the right word for vehicle for small kids?) which were visiting graduation ceremony of their family member on University in Bratislava in last few years. They were attacking them with pavement stones.

 

We had people openly celebrating death of 70 refugees found in truck car in Austria.

 

We had even referendum, which promoted hatespeech against LGBT people. Thankfully our Highest Court have not allowed some of the questions, but still it happened and the TV advertisements promoting this referendum were disgusting.

 

Our prime minister is at the moment actively promoting anti-islamic tension based on fearmongering. He openly said that we will allow help for only Christian refugees from Syria as a part of his pre-election advertisement.

 

And of course some Slovaks are currently fighting in Ukraine on both sides of conflict.

 

I know it's futile compared to what has happend in Beirut on Russian plane over Egypt or in Paris. But hate against anything "non-slovak" and "non-christian" is rising with alarming trending.

Okay dude I apologize, you are more than aware of this type of event

 

I am sorry because I feel I know nothing about Slovakia yet I should. Do other EU members on this forum know about Slovakia?

Slovakia is one of the less known EU countries in the world. If you or anyone else would like to know more about it, please search up about our cultural heritage and nature. You asked about the worst things in Slovakia and I have answered to you with honesty, but this country does not deserve to be mentioned only in that way.

[Darkpriest]

They have great beer

[Meshugger]

An ISIS-sympathizer gives an explanation on the question "why?":

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=906729506085781&id=211952732230132

[BruceVC]

 

 

We had a dozens of attacks of right wing extremists against gypsies and we had few months ago an right wing extremist attack against Saudi family walking on the street with their kid in pushchair (is this the right word for vehicle for small kids?) which were visiting graduation ceremony of their family member on University in Bratislava in last few years. They were attacking them with pavement stones.

 

We had people openly celebrating death of 70 refugees found in truck car in Austria.

 

We had even referendum, which promoted hatespeech against LGBT people. Thankfully our Highest Court have not allowed some of the questions, but still it happened and the TV advertisements promoting this referendum were disgusting.

 

Our prime minister is at the moment actively promoting anti-islamic tension based on fearmongering. He openly said that we will allow help for only Christian refugees from Syria as a part of his pre-election advertisement.

 

And of course some Slovaks are currently fighting in Ukraine on both sides of conflict.

 

I know it's futile compared to what has happend in Beirut on Russian plane over Egypt or in Paris. But hate against anything "non-slovak" and "non-christian" is rising with alarming trending.

Okay dude I apologize, you are more than aware of this type of event

 

I am sorry because I feel I know nothing about Slovakia yet I should. Do other EU members on this forum know about Slovakia?

Slovakia is one of the less known EU countries in the world. If you or anyone else would like to know more about it, please search up about our cultural heritage and nature. You asked about the worst things in Slovakia and I have answered to you with honesty, but this country does not deserve to be mentioned only in that way.

 

Yes I'll do that, I didn't think it was all bad

 

 

I judge very few countries as I live in Africa .....and my friend my continent has some examples of badly run countries that would make Slovakia seem like Switzerland compared to Mongolia. So no I don't judge 

[BruceVC]

An ISIS-sympathizer gives an explanation on the question "why?":

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=906729506085781&id=211952732230132

Meshugger you guys really shouldn't read this type of garbage...its just going to make you more annoyed 

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

If the west wasn't so obsessed with removing Putin and puttin' another Yeltsin in charge of Russia, a lot of this would have never come to pass and they'd have an ally instead of an enemy. 

 

But then, if the foreign policy of Germany and France is going to be decided in Washington, then they deserve no better than what's coming to them. 

Interesting. And how exactly the west is planning to remove him? Assassination?

 

 

Nah, making life so hard for regular russians, due to various embargos, that they would remove him from power themselves.

 

Well, as a russian, i can only thank the west for that. They're doing something useful for a change. Can't wait when he's finally gone. 

 

Ah you're one of those types. That explains everything.