Why hatchets?

[Cantousent]

lol Hatchet Haters.

 

I actually get what you're saying, Jerek. ...But I don't agree with the severity of the gimp. On most settings, and even what I've seen of PotD, you're not completely screwed by taking different weapons. You've just got a deflection boost with hatchet. I dunno, seems a bit weird to me also, but not all that big.

 

On the other hand, I have my own little peeves and some of those are quite petty. For example, I hate that they used 'Might' to mean effectiveness for just about everything. physical, divine, arcane damage. Healing?! lol Doesn't seem to be a big deal for most folks, but it used to get under my skin a bit. Now I just think of it as one of those endearing oddities that gives a game its character.

 

Anyhow, keep the debate alive! Better to debate about in-game hatchets than to whack each other with real ones. That's my take. <.<

[JerekKruger]

I actually get what you're saying, Jerek. ...But I don't agree with the severity of the gimp. On most settings, and even what I've seen of PotD, you're not completely screwed by taking different weapons. You've just got a deflection boost with hatchet. I dunno, seems a bit weird to me also, but not all that big.

 

I agree on both points Cantousent. My tanks don't (usually) use hatchets because it doesn't fit my personal image of them and it's also not that big a deal.

 

On the other hand, I have my own little peeves and some of those are quite petty. For example, I hate that they used 'Might' to mean effectiveness for just about everything. physical, divine, arcane damage. Healing?! lol Doesn't seem to be a big deal for most folks, but it used to get under my skin a bit. Now I just think of it as one of those endearing oddities that gives a game its character.

 

 I agree about might too.

[Zenbane]

lol Hatchet Haters.

 

Anyhow, keep the debate alive!

 

I'm buying a Hatchet for Christmas in honor of this discussion  :-p

 

 

 

No, I've yet to see an argument put forward in this thread for why hatchets should have a bonus to deflection that is convincing.

Yes, yes, that was stated several days ago by the OP, "I'm not very convinced, but thanks for all the opinions!"

 

And these were the replies:

 

"I don't know about anyone else, but I was never trying to convince you"

- Cantousent

 

"No one can convince someone of something if they already are set with their preconceived notions."

- Yours truly

 

Naturally, those responses can apply to you as well.

 

The fact is that as of now, PoE grants deflection bonuses to a Hatchet. No one (including you) has presented a convincing argument in opposition. All I see are personal preferences, which is cool n' all, but cool aint convincing.

 

Put simply: my proverbial Hatchet deflects your unconvincing Thrusts!

 

[JerekKruger]

"No one can convince someone of something if they already are set with their preconceived notions."

- Yours truly

 

I try never to be set in my ways. If someone provides me with compelling evidence that hatchets (or similar) were particularly good defensive weapons then I'll change my opinion. Everything I've looked into so far says otherwise, but I am not an expert so it's perfectly possible I haven't got access to the whole picture.

 

The fact is that as of now, PoE grants deflection bonuses to a Hatchet. No one (including you) has presented a convincing argument in opposition. All I see are personal preferences, which is cool n' all, but cool aint convincing.

 

 

I thought we weren't trying to convince each other 

 

I've given my own opinion based on the facts as I understand them and that's all I can do. I don't particularly mind whether anyone agrees with more, or if I change anyone's opinion, a thread appeared to discuss the hatchet and I weighed in.

 

Put simply: my proverbial Hatchet deflects your unconvincing Thrusts!

 

 

Hah! Well done sir.

[Zenbane]

We have 2 problems with a conversation like this:

 

1) A true weapons master would need to provide incontrovertible evidence

 

2) We are all looking at a static image of a Hatchet vs Dagger vs [insert weapon of choice here] and trying to convince each other to reach a different conclusion

 

Personally I came in to this discussion because I have always loved Axes and the OP tricked me in to believing this was a discussion for Hatchet Lovers. Little did I know that this was secretly a Hatchet Haters Hideaway with no escape lol

 

To summarize my honest opinion on the matter:

 

1) A Hatchet is engineered in such a way that it functions as a tool and a deadly weapon; the type of engineering and function specific to a Hatchet grants an edge (pun intended) over standard straight-edged weapons like swords/daggers when it comes to Deflection.

 

2) Straight-edged weapons (swords, daggers, etc) can be used to Deflect an attack, however, this ability is not inherent (natural) in its design and therefore relies on the training of the person wielding the weapon; in contrast to the Axe which has a natural Deflection design inherent to its craftmanship.

 

3) A larger type of Axe (eg, Battle Axe) does have the same engineering as a Hatchet, however, there are subtle difference in balance, weight, and length that reduce the natural speed/quickness that comes from the smaller designed Hatchet.

 

For these 3 reasons it makes sense, to me, that a Hatchet will grant a Deflection bonus; with the understanding that Deflection is perfectly viable with all other weapon types, they just dont get the damn bonus lol

 

The defense rests, your honor

 

 

[yupper]

"No one can convince someone of something if they already are set with their preconceived notions."

 

 

Before this thread, I thought it made sense that hatchets inherently provides deflection bonuses. I just had images of fight scenes from "The Last Mohican" and "The Patriot", and thought "hey, hatchets deflect!" 

 

After reading this thread, now I am convinced otherwise. Really, almost any off-hand weapon can be used as a deflection aid in melee combat, because it really just depend on how you use it and what you are fighting against. Anyways, it's a game. Pretty sure no one in real life can take a pounding from a dragon no matter how much armor s/he's wearing...

Edited November 19, 2015 by yupper

[Kilburn]

My POTD offensive paladin build used dual hatchets. He was almost as tanky as a shield deflection fighter but hit like a truck.

That +10 deflection at hardly any disadvantage is way too good to pass up.

 

 

it does make me sad though because.... hatchets.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Kilburn

[Zenbane]

 

 

it really just depend on how you use it

Which means that the Deflection relies on the person using the weapon, which means that the Deflection bonus doesn't come from the weapon it comes from the person. This discussion, however, is about why a weapon has the Deflection bonus, mister!

 

[yupper]

 

it really just depend on how you use it

Which means that the Deflection relies on the person using the weapon, which means that the Deflection bonus doesn't come from the weapon it comes from the person. 

 

You should change your username to "Captain Obvious." I am not sure why you felt the need to basically repeat what I said, though.

 

Anyways, as far as game mechanics go, it still makes sense for "game balance" reason. I am just no longer convinced that it does for "realism." And really, it would make more sense to discuss whether the mechanics make sense for "game balance" reasons rather than whether there is a strong basis in "realism", because then...dragons... 

 

 

[Zenbane]

You should change your username to "Mr. Confused" cause you're missing the mark twice in a row.

 

You said, "I thought it made sense that hatchets inherently provides deflection bonuses."

 

That thought process addresses the weapon in its natural state, independent of the user.

 

But then...

"Really, almost any off-hand weapon can be used as a deflection aid in melee combat, because it really just depend on how you use it"

 

That though process addresses the user, with no regard for the weapon.  But this discussion is about the weapon, independent of the user.

 

So my point to you, Mr. Confused, is that the way a person may end up using (or not using) a weapon does not impact the attributes that the weapon naturally maintains all by itself.

 

With your line of reasoning, every single weapon should have the exact same attack speed, deflection potential, and damage output. Better yet, if we follow your train of thought... the game just needs one sword, or maybe just one stick? How it functions will just depend on the character build lol

Edited November 19, 2015 by Zenbane

[yupper]

You should change your username to "Mr. Confused" cause you're missing the mark twice in a row.

 

You said, "I thought it made sense that hatchets inherently provides deflection bonuses."

 

That thought process addresses the weapon in its natural state, independent of the user.

 

But then...

"Really, almost any off-hand weapon can be used as a deflection aid in melee combat, because it really just depend on how you use it"

 

That though process addresses the user, with no regard for the weapon. 

Uh yeah...no weapon in their "natural state" provides "bonouses" independent of users, as if an axe lying on the ground will just jump up by itself and inflict retaliation damage on a random passerby....that you would deliberately misconstrue that sentence into something utterly absurd, is just sad.... 

 

I know there are some users who exhibit a pattern of trolling the forum to bait people, far from it my intent to disrupt their favourite social past time. But I will just note that you are "confused" that there is a "contradiction" only because you missed the part where I had stated:

 

"After reading this thread, now I am convinced otherwise."

 

----------------------------------

Anyways, if every weapon type gets something "special", then for game balance reasons, it makes sense for hatchet to get something special. Good enough for me.

Edited November 19, 2015 by yupper

[Zenbane]

Uh yeah...no weapon in their "natural state" provides "bonouses" independent of users

A sword typically gives slashing bonuses, a dagger gives pierce, a mace gives crush... this is a common concept. You don't seem to understand what the word "bonus" means.

 

 

as if an axe lying on the ground will just jump up by itself and inflict retaliation damage on a random passerby

The word "bonus" does not mean "will animate itself to perform the function for you."

 

What about a Flame Sword? If you saw one in a game would you expect it to give a Fire Damage Bonus? Or would you be like, "omg yeah right, as if the sword is gonna jump up and burn enemies all by itself" ?? lol

 

In other news,

 

One day yupper walks in to the local Blacksmith Shop. The owners says, "Cheers, fellow traveller! Might I interest you in this Godly Hatched of Unrivalled Deflection? Only 1,000 coins!"

 

To which yupper proclaims, "Nice try, Captain Obvious! But I think I will just spend 5 coins for that Butterknife of Haste. After 10 years of training I will be just as effective with the Butterknife, as I would be right now with that Hatchet. That's smart economy baby!"

 

The owner sells yupper the Butterknife of Haste, and throws in a free Potion of Mental Fortitude.

[Boeroer]

The name's ButterCUT - from the White March...

[Valorian]

Let's be honest, hatchets are unfashionable, but they have a cute bonus so we're torn between fashion and protection! 

 

If only we could enchant weapons with +5 deflection... not stackable on hatchets, ofkors. 

[PugPug]

Just based on what a hatchet is physically, I would expect it to do more damage with critical strikes.

 

I really have trouble imagining it being used to deflect blows. It's small. The grip may be wooden. You could lose a hand if you miss. A blade could get stuck in it, and your weapon would be immobilized or wrenched from your grasp.

[Zenbane]

Yeah I think we can all agree that a hatchet made entirely of wood should not have a Deflection bonus.

[Oralaina]

I consider a hatchet the weapon of last resort IRL.  This is because if I use every bit of ammo in every gun in the house, I'll still have the hatchet (well, I'll still have the butcher knives too, but they're in the kitchen....) that sits on the hearth as the last resort before the bad guy guts me.

 

*shrug*  Works for me.

[bjon045]

If you have seen the movie "The Patriot" that explains why they get the bonus. Basically Mel Gibson uses a Hatchet and kills 100 british soldiers without getting hit once.

[Cantousent]

If you have seen the movie "The Patriot" that explains why they get the bonus. Basically Mel Gibson uses a Hatchet and kills 100 british soldiers without getting hit once.

lol I've actually thought about that film whenever I read this thread, which I think is pretty funny altogether. Through monumental force of will, I've refrained from urging folks to bury the hatchet.

 

I managed to snag a unique hatchet in the game recently and I've put it on Eder. I dunno, there were some good things about that flail that I liked also, but deflection is da bomb, so maybe I'll stick with it that way. I've actually been using, of all people, Kana as an off-tank. Hey, put a shield and decent armor on 'im and he ain't so bad. Plus, some of his wave spells come in handy on the front lines.

[Zenbane]

I started having dreams about Mel Gibson once this thread hit Page 3. Agreed on the true reason behind Hatchet Deflection Bonus: it's the Gibson Tribute.

[aweigh0101]

mel gibson also uses a freakin pair of nunchuks in BRAVEHEART along with a wooden hook

p. sure mel loves inserting unorthodox weaponry into his movies hehe

well before he went crazy

[Nonek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTPSYbeNaa8