Confirmed - per-encounter spells are getting nerfed

[Remix]

I'm just trying to suggest alternatives for the people whining about per-encounter spells. Personally, I have no problem with them. If I had it my way I would want more per encounter abilities and just make the fights more difficult and steategic as a whole.

 

The main gripe I have with the resting system is that, unlike bg and iwd, the compensation for having a limited number of camping supplies is an easier game overall. In the d&d games you had unlimited rests with the threat of random encounters. The limited rests in poe just makes everything more tedious than challenging.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Remix

[Teioh_White]

So...it's okay for casters to curb stomp every easy fight, and curb stomp  the few hard battles as well? Is that our consensus here on the issue? As that's what exactly what per casts do. That's the current state. 

 

And depending on how strict you wish to play rest restrictions, per encounters boost max strength, as well. But that's more of an issue with a rest system in IE games, which have -never- been implemented well. It's always been sort of a floating in-game difficulty slider for the player, which isn't good game design. Not that it's impossible to have a working and tuned resting system, it's just never been fully tried. (Here, the only thing in the way is you have to go back spend 3 minutes for more as some sort of limit if 6+ rests isn't enough per outting)

[sapientNode]

So...it's okay for casters to curb stomp every easy fight, and curb stomp  the few hard battles as well? Is that our consensus here on the issue? As that's what exactly what per casts do. That's the current state. 

 

And depending on how strict you wish to play rest restrictions, per encounters boost max strength, as well. But that's more of an issue with a rest system in IE games, which have -never- been implemented well. It's always been sort of a floating in-game difficulty slider for the player, which isn't good game design. Not that it's impossible to have a working and tuned resting system, it's just never been fully tried. (Here, the only thing in the way is you have to go back spend 3 minutes for more as some sort of limit if 6+ rests isn't enough per outting)

 

I still cant understand this curb stomping thing.  Are you saying per encounters allow casters to curb stomp everything?  As in when my level 9 caster and then level 12 caster gets access to level 1 and 2 spells on a per encounter basis and they have 5 casts of each per encounter they all of a sudden become God like?

By level 9 and even moreso by 12 I have so many damn materials to craft with I could pop potions on my melee like candy and eat food and be launching constant scrolls with my entire team if they have a good enough lore.

 

If I went into battle knowing how to cast truly powerful arcana and I started throwing level 1 missiles and slickens at my enemies I think they would be relieved.

[Teioh_White]

Yes, that's exactly it, it lets the casters make an utter joke out of every encounter.  Pre level 9, my Wizards use a few small spells to tip a fight their way (as was mentioned, a single slicken or chill fog can go a long ways), and slowly add more to the fire as the fight depends, ending up with going Nova towards the end of a camping supplies, or a tough fight. With pre encounters? Basically every fight becomes a mini nova. Wizards are the most notable, and I'd put them a tier higher than Priest and Druid, but all of them get far stronger compared to the other classes with these (Repulsing seal is a smaller but more deadly slicken, after all). (And no, the fact it doesn't effect max strength is no argument unless you just don't care about resting. That's been gone over in both threads plenty already).

 

But yes, on level 9(and Wizzy get 7 uses, not 5, to be even crazier), anything in the Slicken's AoE range is basically taken out of the fight right there. Drop a slicken, drop a chill fog, drop a slicken, fan of fire x4 or keep them locked down for the rest of the team. Every fight, anything in range of a slicken is immediately game over'd. Nerf slicken to useless ness? Every fight, free massive AoE blind+damage, free 75 fire damage AoEx5+. That's just the first level. Then it gets worse. And that's just trying to use no per rests, per encounters even stretches those further. Popping a single level 5 sleep, or a level 3 haste (which later becomes per encounter) gets far more value in a normal fight than it would without the ability to spam those per encounters.

 

Part of this seems as if the low level spells are being underestimated. This isn't the old IE spells, where any level 1 spell at max level was a joke. Level 1 spells are not jokes in this game like they are in old IE games, which is funny. Casters in this game have low level spells that remain useful the entire game, can fight almost as well melee if they wish without the need for any spells (and often surpass them with spell buffs), making them not just filler outside of the required caster fight/boss pull, but per encounters were add on top of that. It's silly if balance was an intended goal. (Which is doesn't have to be, plenty of people don't care, and just want to have fun. I think this has been discussed multiple times as well.)

 

Scrolls and Potions are another issue (I myself limit it no buying/crafting, only found in the wild, and even that is dicey), but you can't say with a straight face their the same ease of use as per encounters. Yeah, crafting tons of para scrolls and having one guy spam those while the rest of  team takes haste potions is also terrible gameplay and should be reworked. But that's another issue, bringing it up is either just engaging logical fallacy, or willful obfuscation. If we want a discussion on reworking the overpowered scrolls and potions, I'm on board with that as well. (it's really the scrolls that are really really bad, even the haste pots at least let the enemy fight back. Stun lock tactics by either team aren't really to be encouraged).

 

And the melee thing with overpowered gear and potions? The way this game is set up, casters aren't some joke melee. The only significant differences between classes is the class abilities. they could use the same tactics as well as any melee and get similar results, with the occasion to throw spells in there as well. It's not like casters can't do anything without spells here, they just do what the other classes already do, but slightly worse.

 

Really, if balance is a concern, it clearly was poor idea from the start. The main support is folks not caring about that, which is great, and why I always espouse three difficulties for a game. An easy mode for fans of walking around simulators (not a barb, that's a growing genre now), normal for folks who like gameplay, but don't really want a challenge, and a hard mode that alters the rules for more balanced and tuned gameplay. (which BW attempted in some of it's games, but backed off a bit from, for some reason).

[Elric Galad]

They should just add an option to turn off per encounter spells.

 

Obsidian will never find a solution that makes everyone happy. Everyone has its own opinion. Better to let players decide. It is a single player game, after all.

[tinysalamander]

So...it's okay for casters to curb stomp every easy fight, and curb stomp  the few hard battles as well? Is that our consensus here on the issue? As that's what exactly what per casts do. That's the current state. 

 

It's like the old “we wish that nobody is poor” vs “we wish that nobody is rich” thing. Guess which side you are on If non-casters are underwhelming they should be fixed, not others brought down to them.

[Remix]

I'm playing a potd toi game and, honestly, my wizard and druid, while useful, aren't dominating the game the way you say. My cipher and chanter are just as useful.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Remix

[Baron Pampa]

I thing that the whole issue rises from the sheer amount of boring, repetitive trash fights, in opposition to differentiated and demanding boss fights. The more of the second, the better. Trash fights are boring and usually don't contribute to the narrative in any way. And it's because of their large number per encounter low-level spells are making a big difference for the gameplay.

[Remix]

It would be nice if they had a middle ground and included some more named foes that, while not as strong as some of the bosses and bounties, would help mix things up in a few of these trash mobs.

 

It'd be interesting if they could randomize where they might appear on maps and dungeons, too. So every trash fight wasn't so predictable.

[sapientNode]

So basically I hear about this slicken chill fog amazing strategy that can lock down enemies indefinitely.

this is potentially true if they are weak and trash mobs which all my party can destroy.

 

In White March do you know how many Lagufaeth I missed or outright resisted slicken?  Almost every single one.

So much so I dropped it out of my book.

For all the enemies that I really wanted slicken to land on (casters rangers crazy maniac fish men) it failed quite a bit.

I am playing PoTD so potentially the stats are higher and that is why the resist are as well.

Without slicken constant chill fog is useless unless your in a choke point and enemies are doing to AI dance.

 

So yah for trash mobs which is what I think its supposed to be used for slicken chill fog works well.  That I think is just a convenience for late game play and the arduous act of clearing yet another round of Darguls or Xaurips.

 

I get way more hits when I use the level 4 prone wizard spell which is not per encounter.

[Teioh_White]

Hmm...that's strange, the only difference between Slicken and Call to Slumber is Call to Slumber is Foe only, 2.5x the length, and attacks Will. Beyond that, they have the same range and accuracy, and Reflex is an easier save to lower compared to will. They both produce the same effect, prone, so it's not like the mobs have Stability as an inherent passive. (Do any mobs have things like this? Would be a good idea to add such passives for more variety if not.) I can't really say why you'd have success with one, but not with the other.

 

I myself often burn one Slumber in a fights one step up from trash (I went over above how per encounters let you get much more value out of higher level spell slots), as it buys the time to get the fight locked down entirely with per encounters. I .E, Slumber, Chill Fog for slow and reflex save hit, Slicken, aoe spam x2, repeat to win. The reason the tactic is less effective in White March is the enemies have some pulls that come in more spread out groups like the Brood Mother. Even 26 Int spells are missing a number of mobs in those fights, but not really because any inherent make up of the mobs. Not that it's every fight, even in WM it's still a small portion of the fights set up like that. If one doesn't mind adding cheese to cheese, can pull back to a choke point to accomplish a similar goal on the few fights that do.

 

As for the arguments that trash fights are lame, and per encounters just let us push past them, that's sorta exactly why this discussion exists. I don't think anyone's terribly happy with trash encounters. Per encounters have a minimal impact on the 'tough' fights, unless you're going with very strict rest restrictions that don't always let a fresh rest right before them (I think found-supplies-only has maybe 30 rests max pre WM). They do have a huge impact on trash fights, and sadly, at this point, those style of fights are here to stay. I get the desire to just blow through trash, but right now, Casters get a huge leg up in that regard, as well as a huge leg up in the real fights. And that's the balance issue per encounters create: is it okay for casters to curb stomp the trash, and be the best in the 'real' fights?

Edited October 17, 2015 by Teioh_White

[Killyox]

Totally fine by me. More so I would even remove "mastered spells" as well. Right now I got a bit of stuff into wands + blast but pretty much never use it due to using spells all the time. Always starting with high tier spells and going down and then just going as long as I can on per Encounter spells.

 

I would actually like to have more incentive to use wand and all. Like phantom (which also does very nice aoe dmg and has high acc) + my own wand + blast.

 

 

So basically I hear about this slicken chill fog amazing strategy that can lock down enemies indefinitely.

this is potentially true if they are weak and trash mobs which all my party can destroy.

 

In White March do you know how many Lagufaeth I missed or outright resisted slicken?  Almost every single one.

So much so I dropped it out of my book.

For all the enemies that I really wanted slicken to land on (casters rangers crazy maniac fish men) it failed quite a bit.

I am playing PoTD so potentially the stats are higher and that is why the resist are as well.

Without slicken constant chill fog is useless unless your in a choke point and enemies are doing to AI dance.

 

So yah for trash mobs which is what I think its supposed to be used for slicken chill fog works well.  That I think is just a convenience for late game play and the arduous act of clearing yet another round of Darguls or Xaurips.

 

I get way more hits when I use the level 4 prone wizard spell which is not per encounter.

 

 

Use +15 acc spell before casting slicken and such as well as Hit->crit buffs from priest and wiz and you will not have any problems.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Killyox

[Remix]

Instead of making casters weaker or get rid of per encounter spells, more mobs should be backed by casters that can utilize spells which buff their said mobs to resist low level spells.

[durbal]

As long as the rest system is broken this doesn't matter at all.

 

The rest system is integral to Vancian casting and other large fundamental parts of the game as well (combat fatigue, Athletics, some consumables, etc.) yet it remains untouched and it so obviously sloppy and unfinished.

[Teioh_White]

As long as the rest system is broken this doesn't matter at all.

 

The rest system is integral to Vancian casting and other large fundamental parts of the game as well (combat fatigue, Athletics, some consumables, etc.) yet it remains untouched and it so obviously sloppy and unfinished.

 

I completely agree with this. IE games are based and balanced around a resting system, but not IE game to date I've played has ever actually attempted to put any real limitations on resting. Which I agree, is incredibly sloppy, basically leaving the player to try to balance it themselves, which isn't something the Dev's should be foisting off on the player.

[Fenixp]

Teioh_White: I think you got it the wrong way around, Pillars of Eternity is based and balanced around a rest-based system, IE games are strictly per encounter save for a few locations which disallow resting. There are no penalties for resting in IE games, well save for some random encounters, and nobody cares that you spend half a year in two rooms of a dungeon so those games don't really need to care about appropriately scaling encounters - designers can count on a party being at full strength at any single point. Pillars, on the other hand, has mechanics simulating battle fatigue (in form of endurance/health system + fatigue system + vancian casters) and encounters designed appropriately to count on parties not being to go all in all the time, along with systems designed to discourage player from rest spamming (upon which said player will start to moan about abusing the system being inconvenient). 

[Teioh_White]

That's...pretty much my exact point, that IE games let you have unlimited rests. IE games are based around Vancian casting, which is a per rest system. This includes all the old ones. It's not like old IE games didn't have spell slots, per rest items, health, and fatigue and all that jazz based around per day. However, absolutely nothing was done to prevent rest spamming. It doesn't change the fact that the entire system was based on a per rest system, they just left it up to the player exactly how long an interval that's supposed to be, as little as every fight if they so wished. As was mentioned, it's always been sloppy design foisting that on the players.

 

Pillars attempts to put some very slight limits on resting, as it understands IE games are balanced around resting, but it's just one of minor convenience, nothing substantial.

[Fenixp]

Well, what I'm trying to say is that resting system in IE games was completely inconsequential - if it got removed and your party automatically fully healed and restored all spells after every fight, it would have worked just as well. There weren't any actual mechanical implications of resting or passage of time, perhaps save for fatigue which you could easily dissmiss by essentially pressing a button. You did not have to worry about food, water or other camping supplies. While the mechanic was called resting in the game it could have been fully automated or renamed to "fixall" button and nobody would notice. With that in mind, I do not consider a game which doesn't actually have nearly any concepts of resting mechanically implemented to be balanced around resting as its balance doesn't need to account for it (or lack thereof) at all. All that makes resting "resting" in those games is their basis in Dungeons and Dragons ruleset (and I'd like to point out that most DMs I played with found ways to severely limit or discourage rest spamming)

 

Pillars of Eternity makes a lot more sense, both mechanically and roleplaying-wise. Resting can't be automated as it has consequences. Resting can't be renamed as several concepts of fatigue are included in the game and are very consequential. You can't stay in a single dungeon for several weeks without the need to resupply. Pillars of Eternity actually is balanced around resting, because fundamental workings of its mechanics ensure it needs to be. Now I'm not saying the implementation of resting in Pillars of Eternity is perfect, there's a decent amount of issues with it, but it's a big step in the right direction.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Fenixp

[Teioh_White]

Yeah...again, that's the point. IE games had no restriction on resting, but their combat system is designed around the idea that resting is some limited resource. It's not supposed to be full heal after every fight. In reality, the player can do that with ease. The only restriction is any limitation the player puts on themselves....which is bad game design.

 

And yes, Pillars, clearly based on those IE games, understood this. So it put in some very token restrictions on resting. But that's all it really is, token, and it's still largely up to the player how many fights will be in a 'day'. And if the Devs have no idea how many fights are supposed to be in a 'day', in a system where resources are doled out on a per day basis, it'll lead to untuned content, as they can't have a clue what the player is doing. 

 

There are solutions to this, of course, but as I said, no IE game, Pillars included, has made more than a token effort towards it.

[Fenixp]

Ooh, I see, I get you now - I guess I got too stuck up on IE games being designed around resting, because I think developers realized how the system works. As for Pillars, it does a lot better job of communicating its intent to the player, which doesn't mean the limitations aren't technically nonexistent, but it does mean a lot more people will play it that way. Limiting player and how far should it be taken is a very difficult issue to tackle and I believe that as far as limitations go, the current system is fine - developers are constantly giving me a very clear indication of how do they want me to play their game and I understand that the game will be at its best when I respect this. I guess the issue comes from the fact that how developers want me to play the game is not really the most efficient way to play the game, it does need a mechanical reward for finishing a dungeon while returning to town as little as possible - make loot lower quality every time a player leaves perhaps? Eh, I'm sure this issue has been discussed back and forth so much around here that people are sick and tired of this discussion.

[Zherot]

Yaaay! the crybabies that ask for nerfs in single player games win again!

 

Good thing that:

 

-I already finished the game and not planing a second playthrough (screw you crybabies)

 

-If i would ever consider doing another run i would use a mod to put the spells per encounter as they were and im not gonna come and cry to the forums so everybody has to play the game as i demand, because lets just remember that this crybabies could just have done that instead of demanding that everybody should play the way they wanted.  (screw you crybabies)

[CynicalP]

Yaaay! the crybabies that ask for nerfs in single player games win again!

 

Good thing that:

 

-I already finished the game and not planing a second playthrough (screw you crybabies)

 

-If i would ever consider doing another run i would use a mod to put the spells per encounter as they were and im not gonna come and cry to the forums so everybody has to play the game as i demand, because lets just remember that this crybabies could just have done that instead of demanding that everybody should play the way they wanted.  (screw you crybabies)

 

 

I like the per encounter spells too, it allows my caster to do more than wand their way thru wave after wave of trash mobs. It grants flexibility on how I approach every encounter.  Before my character reach the level  where  I could use per encounter I would save spells for the boss like encounters, so my character felt under utilized for most fights.  I could rest after after several encounters but since their is a limit of camping supplies I would have to run back and restock and then have to wait  thru all those reloading screens. My PC doesn't have a SSD drive so I would  have to wait and wait for the loading screens.   I don't know about you but waiting is not equal to fun.  Honestly I wish they would have done way with the per rest spell system and made all spells per encounter  and balance it by lowering the amount of spells available to cast. This way the caster still can utilize their abilities every encounter but with a limit number the player would have to  think about tactics and how best to use those spells.   Wanding thru encounters is not fun.

 

Like you I am not happy with Obsidian nerfing this.  If they were smart they would have a check box option in the menu system that enable/disable  'per encounter spells'.  This would give the players the option to handicap their casters within their games while allowing those players ( like you and myself) who like per encounter spells to remain unaltered.  I would understand if this were a multiplayer game. I would  agree on the need to enforce class balance in a multiplayer game, but this is a single player game. You can pick and choose what class you want to play, and what class skills you want to use in any encounter. If you want to run a pure Melee based party with no casters nothing stops the player from doing so.   You can play this game with a party and you can Solo it. This game has been out since March and most of the players have experience the per encounter rules, why pull the rug out from under them.  I am not going to happy with the second part of the white marsh expansion if my character has been nerfed where I have to conserve my spells again now or have to constantly rest after each encounter just to experience the same level of game play I am now accustomed too.

 

This change  would not make me a happy camper one bit. My voice and the voices of others opposed to this change of the rules should matter too.

[sapientNode]

 

Yaaay! the crybabies that ask for nerfs in single player games win again!

 

Good thing that:

 

-I already finished the game and not planing a second playthrough (screw you crybabies)

 

-If i would ever consider doing another run i would use a mod to put the spells per encounter as they were and im not gonna come and cry to the forums so everybody has to play the game as i demand, because lets just remember that this crybabies could just have done that instead of demanding that everybody should play the way they wanted.  (screw you crybabies)

 

 

I like the per encounter spells too, it allows my caster to do more than wand their way thru wave after wave of trash mobs. It grants flexibility on how I approach every encounter.  Before my character reach the level  where  I could use per encounter I would save spells for the boss like encounters, so my character felt under utilized for most fights.  I could rest after after several encounters but since their is a limit of camping supplies I would have to run back and restock and then have to wait  thru all those reloading screens. My PC doesn't have a SSD drive so I would  have to wait and wait for the loading screens.   I don't know about you but waiting is not equal to fun.  Honestly I wish they would have done way with the per rest spell system and made all spells per encounter  and balance it by lowering the amount of spells available to cast. This way the caster still can utilize their abilities every encounter but with a limit number the player would have to  think about tactics and how best to use those spells.   Wanding thru encounters is not fun.

 

Like you I am not happy with Obsidian nerfing this.  If they were smart they would have a check box option in the menu system that enable/disable  'per encounter spells'.  This would give the players the option to handicap their casters within their games while allowing those players ( like you and myself) who like per encounter spells to remain unaltered.  I would understand if this were a multiplayer game. I would  agree on the need to enforce class balance in a multiplayer game, but this is a single player game. You can pick and choose what class you want to play, and what class skills you want to use in any encounter. If you want to run a pure Melee based party with no casters nothing stops the player from doing so.   You can play this game with a party and you can Solo it. This game has been out since March and most of the players have experience the per encounter rules, why pull the rug out from under them.  I am not going to happy with the second part of the white marsh expansion if my character has been nerfed where I have to conserve my spells again now or have to constantly rest after each encounter just to experience the same level of game play I am now accustomed too.

 

This change  would not make me a happy camper one bit. My voice and the voices of others opposed to this change of the rules should matter too.

 

 

Yah I think its a bad move and you touch upon the idea that this is indeed a single player game so it is not at all necessary to nerf things.

The whole thing makes no sense since there is resting and as you also pointed out spending time going back to town to restock is not fun.

With a finite set of camping supplies per encounters work well.

PoE is the first IE style game I have seen that does not have infinite resting.

There is too many MMO arguments for a single player game here.

 

However we are lucky and blessed to have iemod which already has the option to disable per encounters completely or make them happen at even lower levels.

So even if they whack it with the nerf bat we can still enable it.

Since the option to enable disable or alter the settings of per encounter already exists they could quite easily implement it and perhaps work with the mod creators of iemod to share code.

I am uncertain what type of reward people feel when they get something removed from a game especially when there are already solutions to fix this problem that some people have with per encounters.  And again this is a bloody single player game.  We do not need more nerf bats we need more complexity and creative designs.  Nerf bats exist mainly for MMOs where you have to literally choke players from becoming powerful so they keep playing.  I recognize some obscenely out of balance aspects of a game need to be tweaked but per encounter is definitely not the one that comes to mind in PoE for me.

[Zherot]

 

 

Yaaay! the crybabies that ask for nerfs in single player games win again!

 

Good thing that:

 

-I already finished the game and not planing a second playthrough (screw you crybabies)

 

-If i would ever consider doing another run i would use a mod to put the spells per encounter as they were and im not gonna come and cry to the forums so everybody has to play the game as i demand, because lets just remember that this crybabies could just have done that instead of demanding that everybody should play the way they wanted.  (screw you crybabies)

 

 

I like the per encounter spells too, it allows my caster to do more than wand their way thru wave after wave of trash mobs. It grants flexibility on how I approach every encounter.  Before my character reach the level  where  I could use per encounter I would save spells for the boss like encounters, so my character felt under utilized for most fights.  I could rest after after several encounters but since their is a limit of camping supplies I would have to run back and restock and then have to wait  thru all those reloading screens. My PC doesn't have a SSD drive so I would  have to wait and wait for the loading screens.   I don't know about you but waiting is not equal to fun.  Honestly I wish they would have done way with the per rest spell system and made all spells per encounter  and balance it by lowering the amount of spells available to cast. This way the caster still can utilize their abilities every encounter but with a limit number the player would have to  think about tactics and how best to use those spells.   Wanding thru encounters is not fun.

 

Like you I am not happy with Obsidian nerfing this.  If they were smart they would have a check box option in the menu system that enable/disable  'per encounter spells'.  This would give the players the option to handicap their casters within their games while allowing those players ( like you and myself) who like per encounter spells to remain unaltered.  I would understand if this were a multiplayer game. I would  agree on the need to enforce class balance in a multiplayer game, but this is a single player game. You can pick and choose what class you want to play, and what class skills you want to use in any encounter. If you want to run a pure Melee based party with no casters nothing stops the player from doing so.   You can play this game with a party and you can Solo it. This game has been out since March and most of the players have experience the per encounter rules, why pull the rug out from under them.  I am not going to happy with the second part of the white marsh expansion if my character has been nerfed where I have to conserve my spells again now or have to constantly rest after each encounter just to experience the same level of game play I am now accustomed too.

 

This change  would not make me a happy camper one bit. My voice and the voices of others opposed to this change of the rules should matter too.

 

 

Yah I think its a bad move and you touch upon the idea that this is indeed a single player game so it is not at all necessary to nerf things.

The whole thing makes no sense since there is resting and as you also pointed out spending time going back to town to restock is not fun.

With a finite set of camping supplies per encounters work well.

PoE is the first IE style game I have seen that does not have infinite resting.

There is too many MMO arguments for a single player game here.

 

However we are lucky and blessed to have iemod which already has the option to disable per encounters completely or make them happen at even lower levels.

So even if they whack it with the nerf bat we can still enable it.

Since the option to enable disable or alter the settings of per encounter already exists they could quite easily implement it and perhaps work with the mod creators of iemod to share code.

I am uncertain what type of reward people feel when they get something removed from a game especially when there are already solutions to fix this problem that some people have with per encounters.  And again this is a bloody single player game.  We do not need more nerf bats we need more complexity and creative designs.  Nerf bats exist mainly for MMOs where you have to literally choke players from becoming powerful so they keep playing.  I recognize some obscenely out of balance aspects of a game need to be tweaked but per encounter is definitely not the one that comes to mind in PoE for me.

 

 

Actually the best solution was just to link the mod to the crybabies by the developers themselves so they can remove per encounter spells entirely and let them work on things that matter...

 

But noooo, they had to cry and impose themselves like little brats on everybody else because they demand we play by their rules, i bet most of these crybabies are cipher players that got butthurt about the nerf the class suffered, which was provoked by another bunch of crybabies, like ****ing grow up already little brat, seriously, i dont even know why the developers are listening to this crybabies, they are worthless.

[Gfted1]

Pillars, on the other hand, has mechanics simulating battle fatigue (in form of endurance/health system + fatigue system + vancian casters) and encounters designed appropriately to count on parties not being to go all in all the time...

Ive never seen a game where the mooks weren't at full power when you encounter them. Youre saying that in PoE you will encounter half wounded parties and casters who have already blown their spells for the day? The game some how scans your health, endurance and current spells/abilities and scales the game accordingly on the fly?