Ranger vs Rogue to build a ranged DPS?

[DrakenKin]

I am playing a rogue on PoTD, and I have to say I am very disapointed... too much micro / positionning + enemies switch target even if you wait for your tank to catch aggro before moving in (which is wasted dps standing around) + it's so squishy it dies in a blink + a lot of "meh" per rest abilities, the only reason i picked some is because there was nothing better to take.

 

So I retrained her as a ranged dps. But here again, it seems VERY weak compared to a simple ranger.

 

Lack of swift strike makes it very slow with heavy weapons, and lack of sources of accuracy on PoTD makes it bad at getting consistent criticals. But most of all between swift strike and dps from wolf I am pretty sure my ranger ends up doing a lot more damage than the rogue.

 

So what do you think? Ranger or rogue to build the ideal archer dps?

Edited September 28, 2015 by DrakenKin

[rheingold]

Melee rogue is awesome but you need to put her in heavy armor - it helps. I find my dual sabre wielding rogues kills things so quickly they don't have time to do a substantial amount of damage. But in general, if it's melee dps I go dual wield rogue, if it's ranged I go for ranger and get all the important pet talents. They do a serious amount of damage. But both require a serious amount of micro management.

Ranged definitely ranger!

[sapientNode]

I am playing PoTD and my Rogue is only in a Unique padded armor and she is ridonculous in the damage department.

Most damage done = Rogue

Hardest enemy defeated = Rogue

Most crits = Rogue

Most damage done = Rogue

 

She is only duel wielding daggers right now.  Well I think specifically 2 stilletos.

She is the character I move around the most though.

And yes she sits idle for a moment before going in and pretty much destroying things.  Even with that idle her dps is higher than my main 2 tanky types.

If they turn on her its a problem but we have 2 invis and she also gets a swap ability to teleport out of danger

 

I have only used her ranged if she cant get in there and I never send her into a mass of enemies.  She usually sits side by side my tank. Or I will run around the outer perimeter of battle and run in and backstab some of the loose enemies running around.

 

I have her pumped with high perception for extremely high accuracy and interrupts as well.

[KDubya]

You need to work them like SapientNode does OR you can give them a reach weapon like Tall Grass OR you can give them a weapon and shield and heavier armor and use them as a more damaging damage spec'd Fighter. Devil of Caroc works well for the last type.

 

Ranged damage I'd say is always going to be better with a Ranger. Rangers will be faster with the big slow firing weapons due to Swift Aim, more accurate and harder hitting with bows due to Vicious Shot, or just more DPS from Twin Shot. Plus you get the pet as a disposable summon. Plus Rangers can use Stormcaller.

 

Maybe you could make something out of the fast firing Superb rod that prones on crit with Dangerous Implements in order to set up your own sneak attacks but that seems pretty gimmicky and is just a better auto-attack bot.

[hilfazer]

Rogue. He's pure DPS. With ranged weapon it's gonna be pure ranged DPS. Max PER and DEX before MIG because rogue has a lot of +% damage.

 

Ranger's damage will always be partially (or wholly) melee because of companion. Ranger is a mix of damage, control and holding the line (with companion).

[Boeroer]

If your rogue isn't at the top of the damage list and has less than 50/50 hit/crit ratio you're doing something utterly wrong. I'm running a 6 rogue party at the moment (just for the fun of it) and I have to say that it's way easier than I thought - because enemies die so quickly that the lack of CC abilities at the beginning doesn't matter. Later on I will use crit related CC weapons like Tall Grass and so on with every char. Then it will go supereasy. I also have two rogue tanks... and even that works! Just killed Readric and cleared the castle completely with lvl 4 (main) and 3 (rest of the party).

Edited September 28, 2015 by Boeroer

[MadDemiurg]

I'm not sure if deathblows or twin arrows are gonna win the dps race, but I got a feeling that twin arrows are going to have the edge. That's level 13+ though, before that sneak attack is more potent than ranger's modals probably. But with the new buffed pet damage it's gonna be close overall.

 

So overall I'd say that prior to White March rogue > ranger in terms of ranged dps, but in White March I feel like the ranger got the edge. Haven't done the math to back it up though.

Edited September 28, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Elric Galad]

I am playing PoTD and my Rogue is only in a Unique padded armor and she is ridonculous in the damage department.

Most damage done = Rogue

Hardest enemy defeated = Rogue

Most crits = Rogue

Most damage done = Rogue

 

 

One important thing to note is that Ranger's pet are not taken into account in the DPS / Number of kills log.

 

And since 2.0, this is a HUGE bias.

Pets (with pet's talents), especially Wolf, do almost as much damage as a melee DPSer like melee cipher.

Surely not as much as rogue, but you have a Ranged DPSer to support you.

 

But Pets are melee. So if you want the top ranged damage dealer, rogue is still the best. Ranger Multiclass talent enable rogues to do a crazy +80% lash alpha strike (especially crazy with rogue damage modifers).

 

However, for overall DPS (and utility), I think ranger is currently slightly above.

[MadDemiurg]

Wouldn't be so sure about pure ranged dps either.

 

As a rough estimation currently ranged rogue gets say +250% weapon damage assuming deathblows are always on (which is a bit generous, even though they are not that difficult to enable) and lets say ranger gets only +100% (-deathblows and sneak attack). Which means that a rogue would do 350% damage per hit while ranger will do 2x200% damage per hit with twin arrows at -10 accuracy (but that can be compensated with stalkers link). Now, ranger would suffer DR reduction twice, but as long as the effective DR is less than 50% of the base weapon damage ranger will be doing more damage. Now rogue also has additional hit to crit conversion and some DoT damage with deep wounds, but these do not contribute as much and OTOH ranger has driving flight for some AoE and stunning shots that can debuff enemy deflection thus increasing your dps. This is a very rough estimation, but the damage will be definitely competitive (and the pet will give an edge in any case). That's the endgame build (lvl 13+) though.

 

Now if you're talking about top ranged dps, in all honesty, it's neither.

Edited September 28, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Elric Galad]

Yeah, top ranged DPS is Wizard.
And druid probably second.

 

Spellcasters you know...

[Boeroer]

I also think that the ranger is a better ranged damage dealer than the rogue at the moment. But if somebody says that his rogue is not working than I would say somebody doesn't know how to use him properly. That's not a problem though. He/she will find out.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Boeroer

[Teioh_White]

I've never really tried to 'parse' the difference between a Rogue and a Ranger in raw DPS, but the eyeball test (i've taken both through PotD) would give it to a Dual Wield Saber rogue. Straight up ranged v. ranged, if we're not counting the pet? I'd give it to Rogue, outside of Stormcaller. With Stormcaller (which rogue can't use), ranger will be getting 4 chances to proc per attack, and that just adds up fast.

 

The pet makes it hard to figure out. End game, it'll crit for over 100 a hit,  but off the top of my head I couldn't tell you it's Acc or attack speed.

[DrakenKin]

One other thing going for the rogue is the raw damage from deep wounds. It does apply to pierce, and thus ranged attacks.

 

If you build a ranged rogue using fast attacks like bows, the raw damage could stack nicely. The real question is, does it stack with itself with every attack? 

 

Can DoTs even crit? Would be awesome if you crit the raw damage.

 

Third question for this build, would it be better to have low intelligence so the raw damage applies faster, or is PoE one of these games that do MORE damage if you extend the duration? (if the engine applies the same damage per tic over a longer period...)

Edited September 28, 2015 by DrakenKin

[MadDemiurg]

This is not about melee rogue vs anything. Melee has more dps than ranged by default if both are able to attack continuously. As I demonstrated pure ranged dps should be roughly comparable for the endgame ranger and rogue, discounting the pet (which is pretty good).

 

Deep wounds do not stack....

 

Most of the low int = more damage issues have been fixed (not that there were that many to begin with).

[KDubya]

Every attack resets the Deep Wounds so there is only ever just one DoT in effect and the damage per tick is the same. It also means that a 3 intellect repeatedly hitting the same target will get as much out of Deep Wounds as a 20 intellect repeatedly hitting the same target will. A 20 intellect Deep Wounds guy will do better hitting everyone once to set the DoT and have his high intellect keep the DoT lasting for a long time.

[MasterCipher]

To OP. You can play a high damage melee rogue with high deflection that doesn't take a lot of babysitting (100+ deflection).

 

Talents:

Sword and Shield Style

Superior Deflection

Savage Attacks

Vulnerable Attacks

Deflecting Assault

Vicious Fighting

(carry a paladin w/ reinforcing exhortation which overwrites cautious attack) 

 

Abilities:

Blinding Strike

Reckless Assault

Dirty Fighting

Riposte

Deep Wounds

Death Blows

Stunning Blow

 

Recommended Race Aumua that gets +20 defense vs stun/prone and +1 MIG background

MIG 21

DEX 18

CON 15

INT 3

PER 3

RES 18

 

This character can abuse the engagement mechanic by running around and intentionally triggering attacks of opportunity to in turn trigger ripostes. Use this build as your main tank and have your cipher cast Ectoplasmic Crush for best results. 

 

As effective as this build was for my party, I dropped it for a 2.0 Stormcaller wolf ranger and let the crazy powerful burn aura Paladin take over tanking. 

[Elric Galad]

I think the conclusion is :

 

Don't worry, both are pretty good.

 

Simply play the one that appeals you the most.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Elric Galad

[Ymarsakar]

Ranger for ranged dps. Easier micro, more dps since the farther away you are the less armor you can wear without dying. Also pet blocks enemies, so one more way to keep them at ranged.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Ymarsakar