Enchanting Tall Grass....

[Cacophonix]

Greetings. I took some advice and I am using Tall Grass with my Rogue. All I can say is ....(OMG)!

 

With that out of the way this post is really about enchanting both weapons and Armor.

 

I reasoned that a dmg  type plus a slaying type would not hurt Tall grass and if I could spread the slaying types around the party all the better.

 

However I ran into a thought. Is one dmg type better than another?

 

Fire,

 

Acid

 

Frost

 

Electricity

 

Also of the slaying types (other than Kith) I was thinking either Wilder or Beast for tougher late game things.

 

 

Is it worth it to give up a diamond to enchant an armor with Con or Might or Dex? I was going to enchant the Pallys armor for more Con or more Resolve. I dont know if its worth it.

 

Who here does what? I have hoarded my mats and I can pretty much do anything at least once.

 

Thanks much!

[KDubya]

For a weapon lash I like corrode or lightning as fire and frost seem to have more immunes.

 

The only really scarce enchanting stuff are the ones needed to make something superb, Adra eyes or something like that, everything else can be bought at a store.

 

Wow I just noticed that they changed enchanting in that you can upgrade without having double the room like you needed before. Example Tall Grass is 8/12 when you get it, you can place a lash on it to get 10/12 and then upgrade it to Superb for 12/12. Before you would need to have 6/12 to have room to add Superb, even if 4/12 was from exceptional.

 

So no reason to not add a lash first thing and just leave 2/12 empty for Superb upgrade if you want.

 

It even let me add a lash and a slayer to Hours of St Rumbalt, take it to 11/12 and then add exceptional to replace the accuracy 3 that it starts with.

 

Bottom line enchanting resources are cheap, no reason not to slap something on. Just leave room for the few items that would be worth making superb. Tall Grass is one of those items that is worth upgrading.

[MasterCipher]

Weapon elemental type doesn't really matter that much and I think the devs did a good job of balancing this and it's interesting how. This is pre-White March data and I don't the exact number of each type of mob in game.

 

The average DR is 9. Fire for example has the most different mobs in the Bestiary (20) who have low DR to fire, but the average level of these mobs is 5, so it's widely useful but you'll probably have an easy time of the fight anyway.

 

Shock only has 2 mobs that are vulnerable to it, but their average DR is 21, so the vulnerability can be really helpful in those cases.

 

Freeze has a lot of mobs (19) that have a higher DR to it, but not very strongly (DR is only 7 higher than their average base DR of 10).

 

Corrode has the least impact either way, but this makes it generally consistent.

 

 

My spreadsheet table below doesn't post well  

 

  # of HIGH Resist mobs High Avg DR DR High Avg High DR compared to Base High avg mob lvl # of LOW Resist mobs Low Avg DR DR Low Avg Low DR compared to Base Low avg mob lvl Count of Burn 7 16 29 -13 7 20 10 5 5 5 Count of Shock 8 15 25 -10 7 2 21 11 11 7 Count of Corrode 7 13 23 -11 8 5 8 4 4 6 Count of Freeze 19 10 17 -7 5 18 10 6 4 6

Edited September 22, 2015 by MasterCipher

[gkathellar]

In the past, Lash had a really weird relationship with DR - applying a percentage of DR, and not actually checking for damage type or some such. I honestly don't know whether that's changed, but it might be worth looking into.

[dukefx]

Wow I just noticed that they changed enchanting in that you can upgrade without having double the room like you needed before. Example Tall Grass is 8/12 when you get it, you can place a lash on it to get 10/12 and then upgrade it to Superb for 12/12. Before you would need to have 6/12 to have room to add Superb, even if 4/12 was from exceptional.

This was never the case. Upgrading a 10/12 Exceptional weapon to Superb worked even in 1.0

 

The only change I noticed in enchanting is replacement. Earlier you could add lets say +2 INT (if that +2 INT wasn't there by default) to a piece of armor and later replace it with lets +2 CON. You can't replace your own enchantments anymore. No idea when this changed, but this is the only change I've noticed.

[gkathellar]

 

Wow I just noticed that they changed enchanting in that you can upgrade without having double the room like you needed before. Example Tall Grass is 8/12 when you get it, you can place a lash on it to get 10/12 and then upgrade it to Superb for 12/12. Before you would need to have 6/12 to have room to add Superb, even if 4/12 was from exceptional.

This was never the case. Upgrading a 10/12 Exceptional weapon to Superb worked even in 1.0

 

The only change I noticed in enchanting is replacement. Earlier you could add lets say +2 INT (if that +2 INT wasn't there by default) to a piece of armor and later replace it with lets +2 CON. You can't replace your own enchantments anymore. No idea when this changed, but this is the only change I've noticed.

 

The changes both of you are mentioning definitely came prior to 2.0, but KDubya is right that there were several earlier 1.x versions that didn't allow for upgrading.

[pi2repsion]

KDubya and gkathellar are right on the superb enchant issue; It was rather frustrating in the release version.

 

 

As for the lash enchant, Fire and Corrode remain the most generally useful options, but I'm tempted to say that you should go with whichever visuals you prefer. The difference in damageoutput between the various types is, on the whole, marginal, and when fighting enemies with very high DR in general it is unlikely to be the lash of your weapons that make a difference in whether you defeat them or not.

Edited September 22, 2015 by pi2repsion

[Vorad]

Regarding the armor enchant I wouldn't bother with either con,might or dex because you can get items that give you +3 instead of the +2 you get from enchant, in a pallie perhaps intellect would be ok depending on your paladin's role support or not and race(especially if he's good-like you can't get the early +2 intellect headpiece) .

[Cacophonix]

Thanks for the replies. You really gave me the information I was looking for regarding the lash. I will go with Corrosive on the Pike. If i fill up the enchantments all the way to 12 say a lash and a slayer for a full 12 can I still upgrade to superb later?

[MunoValente]

When in doubt I take spirit slaying because I hate spirits and their teleporting.

[KDubya]

You need to stop at 10/12 to have room for the Superb upgrade.

 

So with Tall Grass you can pick two from - Superb upgrade OR Lash OR Slayer, OR you can pick only the Kith Slayer.

[Cacophonix]

Ok, so just to be clear, I want to get the Corrosive lash and Superb which is +6 in the enchatment. Currently it has 8/12 on it. 

 

So I cant get both the Superb upgrade and a lash?

[Boeroer]

Yes you can. Superb will add 2 points since Tall Grass is already exceptional and the lash another 2. So you're at 12 and that's it. Then you can durgan refine that weapon for a +0.3 crit damage modifier and +20% hit to crit conversion - which means a total of +30% on Tall Grass. Combine that with Vicious Fighting plus talent (+20%), Minor Threat (+10%) and the Pally Aura (+5%) or the priest spell (+20%) and you have a 65% or 80% chance of converting hits to crits. With Bloody Slaughter it's up to 100% plus another +0.5 crit dam. mod. when attacking enemies with low endurance (badly injured).

Edited September 22, 2015 by Boeroer

[Cacophonix]

Thanks, that is seriously sick damage! We must build them quickly!

[dukefx]

KDubya and gkathellar are right on the superb enchant issue; It was rather frustrating in the release version.

I'm pretty damn sure they did work. Purgatory (8/12) and The Hours of St. Rumbalt (7/12) for instance which I used in 1.0 had no issues taking the Superb enchantment.

[globalCooldown]

Ditto what everyone else is saying. There's no reason not to stick some stuff on your weapon if you have room for it! And if you run into enemies where you need to exploit damage type weaknesses to win, you'll benefit more from cheesing it up with spells.

Durgan refinement makes some seriously ridiculously good weapons, and doesn't cost any enchantment slot dealies. The tradeoff is, you've got to get yourself those Durgan ingots. Which can be tough to find.

 

As for Tall Grass, I'm partial to the enchantment that makes wild Pokemon come out of it.

[Cacophonix]

Ditto what everyone else is saying. There's no reason not to stick some stuff on your weapon if you have room for it! And if you run into enemies where you need to exploit damage type weaknesses to win, you'll benefit more from cheesing it up with spells.

Durgan refinement makes some seriously ridiculously good weapons, and doesn't cost any enchantment slot dealies. The tradeoff is, you've got to get yourself those Durgan ingots. Which can be tough to find.

 

As for Tall Grass, I'm partial to the enchantment that makes wild Pokemon come out of it.  <<<< what enchantment is this? 

 

So I was going to go either a slaying type ( was going to put Wilder on it) or a lash Corrode it was the next one..

Edited September 22, 2015 by Cacophonix

[Nobear]

 

So I was going to go either a slaying type ( was going to put Wilder on it) or a lash Corrode it was the next one..

 

The corrode lash will probably be useful in more situations than any slaying enchant will.

[KDubya]

I'd go with the lash instead of a slayer.

 

25% damage all the time or +5 accuracy & 25% damage against one type?

 

Not quite that simple actually but pretty close. The lash takes the total damage roll, takes 25% of it and applies that against 25% of the targets DR for the particular damage type.

 

So 40 damage and 12 DR >>>> 40-12= 28 damage + (25% of 40 against 25% of 12) = 7 So 35 damage total. If the lash element DR was less ( you'd get 40-12=28  + 10-2 = 8 .. 36 total

 

With a slayer you'd get 40*1.25= 50-12 = 38 damage against the one enemy type.

[Ymarsakar]

Lightning is really good for the druid or other people who have lightning attacks. It also affects those annoying kith that like to wear plate armor and use paladin/priest powers.

 

The lash effect seems pretty weird now, I can't see how the DR is broken down with it, it just shows up as a damage added to the normal hit damage - DR.

 

I ran a couple of experiments and simulations before with lash to see how DR affected it, but it's now different behavior wise.

 

I try to pair up the lash with any utility talents such as scion. Doesn't make much difference, though I haven't checked exactly what difference it makes.

 

Normally I go with corrode for the most consistent damage and my cipher has body attunement, along with the wizard's vulnerability aoe. Both can reduce DR by quite a chunk, so the higher my dps, the more will be applied in total with those spells. It's really noticeable on the blunderbuss build, since the lash adds a significant amount of damage if you can debuff the enemy below your DR bypass abilities.

 

<B> KDubya</b>

 

Did those numbers come from your experiences in 2.0 or something else?

Edited September 23, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[KDubya]

The numbers are just to illustrate the math.

 

The whole "lash applies against 25% of the enemy DR" is what I've seen from the guys who used to test that stuff, back in the beginning. I am assuming that it still holds true.

 

From reading the combat log it feels about right. I need to actually try and back into the original damage to see if that is what is happening.

[Ymarsakar]

The numbers are just to illustrate the math.

 

The whole "lash applies against 25% of the enemy DR" is what I've seen from the guys who used to test that stuff, back in the beginning. I am assuming that it still holds true.

 

From reading the combat log it feels about right. I need to actually try and back into the original damage to see if that is what is happening.

 

I see. It should be feasible to test the Paladin's Flames of Devotion with it then, since it would be 50% lash. That would allow weapons testing at 25% lash and 50% lash, or 75% lash in other instances as a way to differentiate the numbers.