Modern Slavery in America

[Namutree]

 

also, even if the immigrant is legal, there is still room for exploitation, because an immigrant will accept to do ****ty jobs with under the table pay since he comes from a place with no job at all. while the local is always more picky

 

So? Sounds win-win to me.

[Volourn]

 "They are here to suck on the teat of the government!"

 

Some are some aren't. OMGZ Humanz. So varied. <>

[Zoraptor]

Most of the 'slavery' scams here are pretty typical ones with a new veneer- hold the immigrant to ransom against losing their job and being deported if they complain about being paid $2 at the local Indian restaurant being the most recent. Happens rather a lot and ironically there's a disproportionate number of former immigrants doing the exploiting of the new immigrants. The other one is a payment scam, set up a job that no New Zealander can or would do but which is tailored towards a particular immigrant who wants to move here- fluent mandarin architect willing to work for minimum wage, or similar- when a suitable candidate cannot be found through Work & Income NZ (the government unemployment/ job agency) they can import someone who usually pays a decent 5-6 figure sum to the person with the job for the work visa.

 

And then we vote ourselves least corrupt country in the world for the xth year in succession.

[213374U]

A few notes:

 

a) We have no way of knowing if this story is even true. Wouldn't want to expand regulation making the lives of everyone involved in this issue harder to solve a problem that may not even exist. 

 

b) I don't see why I should be punished (in the form of higher taxes or public debt) so that immigrants who come here of their own free will can have a better time while here. If you really find the situation so detestable then just end the program altogether rather then make me partially subsidize the importation of immigrant workers. After all, the inspections, prosecutions, and stuff cost taxpayer money.

 

c) Do you really think a few new laws to make a difference? The government is incompetent at everything it does, and is easy to fool.

 

a) Read the court documents linked in the article. As far as facts are concerned, it looks pretty solid to me. You have doubts the story is true... because?

 

b) Think of it this way: due to the way a globalized economy works, immigrant workers in the US are going to happen legally or not, whether you want to or not. It's not about them "having a better time", it's about, among other things, making sure that those who make use of immigrant labor do not gain an unfair advantage over those who don't by breaking the law. Further, do you think that a slave trade can be run only by withholding passports and cooking books? Hello, bribery, extortion, influence peddling etc.

 

c) No need for new laws, really. Just resources to make sure the laws already in place aren't being ignored left and right. A pipe dream, I know...

[Namutree]

 

a) Read the court documents linked in the article. As far as facts are concerned, it looks pretty solid to me. You have doubts the story is true... because?

 

Very well... Alright, I'll concede this point. +1 for you.

 

 

 

b) Think of it this way: due to the way a globalized economy works, immigrant workers in the US are going to happen legally or not, whether you want to or not. It's not about them "having a better time", it's about, among other things, making sure that those who make use of immigrant labor do not gain an unfair advantage over those who don't by breaking the law.

Doesn't change the fact that I (and the other taxpayers) would be getting the bill to ensure that those whom illegally abuse their foreign workers don't have an advantage over those who don't. Those foreigners come here of their own choice. THEY and only they are responsible for their well-being. I never asked them to come here, and I don't want to be punished for them being here. Besides this program should just be shut down altogether as the government shouldn't be getting it's nose in the economy.

 

 

 

c) No need for new laws, really. Just resources to make sure the laws already in place aren't being ignored left and right. A pipe dream, I know...

 

Well, I'm glad you at least realize it's a pipe dream. 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Namutree

[Hurlshort]

You know, there are actual economists and immigration experts that do reports and studies on this stuff.  But hey, lets ignore the experts.  

[Namutree]

You know, there are actual economists and immigration experts that do reports and studies on this stuff.  But hey, lets ignore the experts.  

Ok, let's ignore them.

[213374U]

Doesn't change the fact that I (and the other taxpayers) would be getting the bill to ensure that those whom illegally abuse their foreign workers don't have an advantage over those who don't. Those foreigners come here of their own choice. THEY and only they are responsible for their well-being. I never asked them to come here, and I don't want to be punished for them being here. Besides this program should just be shut down altogether as the government shouldn't be getting it's nose in the economy.

 

To a point, I'd agree. However, consider that they may not have the tools to look after their own well-being: litigating requires money, and money is precisely the thing these people will be left without if they sue their employer, as they are specifically barred from looking for a job while on a H-2 visa. When the choice is starving in your own country or accepting what amounts to seasonal slavery in a foreign country, you don't get to be picky about workplace conditions. Beggars can't be choosers.

 

But beyond that, it boils down to this simple question: do you want to have immigration and labor laws? Or any laws at all, for that matter? (Y/N). If the answer is yes, you need to earmark an amount of what the state makes through tax collection to make sure these laws are upheld. If you don't want to have these laws, well... that'd be an interesting experiment. The argument that you are being punished in the form of taxation for stuff that has nothing to do with you directly isn't entirely without merit, but the rationale is that it's your part of the "social contract" that makes it possible for you to live in an orderly society, much like you have to pay for cops to uphold traffic rules even if you don't drive yourself. The issue at the root is that you are never given an option to opt out of said "contract".

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Doesn't change the fact that I (and the other taxpayers) would be getting the bill to ensure that those whom illegally abuse their foreign workers don't have an advantage over those who don't. Those foreigners come here of their own choice. THEY and only they are responsible for their well-being. I never asked them to come here, and I don't want to be punished for them being here. Besides this program should just be shut down altogether as the government shouldn't be getting it's nose in the economy.

 

 

The argument that you are being punished in the form of taxation for stuff that has nothing to do with you directly isn't entirely without merit, but the rationale is that it's your part of the "social contract" that makes it possible for you to live in an orderly society, much like you have to pay for cops to uphold traffic rules even if you don't drive yourself. The issue at the root is that you are never given an option to opt out of said "contract".

 

 

And there's the fact that the US government is the poster child of unnecessary spending, so the idea of "allocating resources to make sure that vulnerable people aren't living in hellish conditions = tax raise" sounds like utter bull**** to me.

[teknoman2]

 

 

also, even if the immigrant is legal, there is still room for exploitation, because an immigrant will accept to do ****ty jobs with under the table pay since he comes from a place with no job at all. while the local is always more picky

 

So? Sounds win-win to me.

 

it's win-win for the bosses but in the long run the average man will suffer for it

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

also, even if the immigrant is legal, there is still room for exploitation, because an immigrant will accept to do ****ty jobs with under the table pay since he comes from a place with no job at all. while the local is always more picky

 

So? Sounds win-win to me.

 

it's win-win for the bosses but in the long run the average man will suffer for it

 

Interestingly enough this is a real social issue in South Africa and climaxed in the appalling Xenophobia we have seen over the last few years

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia_in_South_Africa

 

Basically foreign black Africans are unfairly blamed for taking jobs and also accepting  working  under worse conditions than local people and also accepting less money. While another accusation is local black South Africans are generally lazy and have a sense of entitlement so people prefer hiring foreigners 

 

There is some truth in both views but its not fair to target  foreign black Africans as a reason for the overall economic slowdown in the country 

Edited September 16, 2015 by BruceVC

[Namutree]

 

 

And there's the fact that the US government is the poster child of unnecessary spending, so the idea of "allocating resources to make sure that vulnerable people aren't living in hellish conditions = tax raise" sounds like utter bull**** to me.

 

Hey, I want to end the rest of the pointless spending too. So I can't be accused of not being consistent. If you want change; end the program altogether.

[Wrath of Dagon]

All you Americans are fired : http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicagarrison/all-you-americans-are-fired#.mwbyGOZVry

[Wrath of Dagon]

Republican Congressmen pushing for more H2B visas and lower wages : http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/05/gop-legislators-push-plan-replace-americans-import-264000-foreign-workers/

[Meshugger]

It will continue until the following happens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague

 

I still like to see a peaceful solution though.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Too bad the voters are so ignorant and apathetic.