The current refugee wave in Europe

[Zoraptor]

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

 

The key sentence being:

"The minister conceded that he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his "gut feeling" told him it was happening."

Colour me unimpressed.

If ISIS terrorists wanted to get into Europe, they'd simply come by plane, and not in a 9/11 way. There's a enough of them with valid European passports.

 

 

ISIS themselves claim about 4000 warriors. But no one can truly know since refugees tend to tear their passports at the Serbian/Hungarian border.

 

 

A lot don't do that any more- one of the consequences of Merkel's stupidity is that as well as paying people smugglers to smuggle them they're now also paying forgers to make fake Syrian identity papers. There have been more than a few reports of Urdu or Pashtu speaking refugees carrying Syrian ID papers, quite apart from all those who are just claiming to be Syrians with no papers.

 

The German (shorthand, since there have been equally dumb responses from elsewhere) reaction has been just about the single worst reaction possible as it actively exacerbates the problem by encouraging more people to arrive; and I can only conclude that it has been deliberately so or that Merkel et al have not even the most basic grip on reality and how people's minds work. That they are now seeking to strongarm others into accepting their approach and bailing them out of their stupidity only compounds it. It's particularly ironic given their response to Greece, Germany seeking a no harm no foul refugee bail out from their culpable stupidity from everyone else. One rule for the vassals, another for the liege...

[BruceVC]

Yeah, for his private army and slaves if watching Bond movies teaches us anything

 

 

He should be spending his billionz to build a palce for them in the ME. Afterall, we all know the West is evil and the ME is all nice and cute. Why would people want to come here?

 

Actually I saw this full interview on CNN and he is very sincere, he is a Coptic Christian for starters and really is opposed to ISIS and wants to help the Syrians 

 

The only criticism I have about him is he was asked why aren't the majority of ME Sunni countries taking in Syrian refugees...like UAE and Saudi Arabia...and he deflected this question by saying something like " yes they must do more but the issue is ISIS " ....and yes ISIS is an issue but the actual refugees are the real concern and what countries will absorb them

 

So for me once again its appalling that countries like Saudi Arabia aren't taking in thousands of refugees 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

 

The key sentence being:

"The minister conceded that he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his "gut feeling" told him it was happening."

Colour me unimpressed.

If ISIS terrorists wanted to get into Europe, they'd simply come by plane, and not in a 9/11 way. There's a enough of them with valid European passports.

 

 

ISIS themselves claim about 4000 warriors. But no one can truly know since refugees tend to tear their passports at the Serbian/Hungarian border.

 

 

 

A lot don't do that any more- one of the consequences of Merkel's stupidity is that as well as paying people smugglers to smuggle them they're now also paying forgers to make fake Syrian identity papers. There have been more than a few reports of Urdu or Pashtu speaking refugees carrying Syrian ID papers, quite apart from all those who are just claiming to be Syrians with no papers.

 

The German (shorthand, since there have been equally dumb responses from elsewhere) reaction has been just about the single worst reaction possible as it actively exacerbates the problem by encouraging more people to arrive; and I can only conclude that it has been deliberately so or that Merkel et al have not even the most basic grip on reality and how people's minds work. That they are now seeking to strongarm others into accepting their approach and bailing them out of their stupidity only compounds it. It's particularly ironic given their response to Greece, Germany seeking a no harm no foul refugee bail out from their culpable stupidity from everyone else. One rule for the vassals, another for the liege...

 

 

Oh Zora....you really don't get it do you ?

 

You think the German response by offering to take in 1 million refugees is based on some malicious intent ....you think Merkel doesn't understand reality  

 

And it seems your reasoning that Germany "clearly is inconsistent in its good will   because look how they treated Greece " is a  valid point?

 

 

Sorry but this is just another example of how your anti-Western sentiment blinds you to the obvious motivations of what guides the West and countries like Germany 

 

Germany shouldn't have opened its borders unless the ME takes full responsibility for refugees  but they did this because they thought they were doing the right thing...its not because they want to undermine the EU

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11865151/Islamic-State-jihadis-may-be-posing-as-Syrian-refugees.html

 

How many are in Europe now again?

 

The key sentence being:

"The minister conceded that he had no firm information on terrorist infiltration of refugees, but said his "gut feeling" told him it was happening."

Colour me unimpressed.

If ISIS terrorists wanted to get into Europe, they'd simply come by plane, and not in a 9/11 way. There's a enough of them with valid European passports.

 

 

ISIS themselves claim about 4000 warriors. But no one can truly know since refugees tend to tear their passports at the Serbian/Hungarian border.

 

 

A lot don't do that any more- one of the consequences of Merkel's stupidity is that as well as paying people smugglers to smuggle them they're now also paying forgers to make fake Syrian identity papers. There have been more than a few reports of Urdu or Pashtu speaking refugees carrying Syrian ID papers, quite apart from all those who are just claiming to be Syrians with no papers.

 

The German (shorthand, since there have been equally dumb responses from elsewhere) reaction has been just about the single worst reaction possible as it actively exacerbates the problem by encouraging more people to arrive; and I can only conclude that it has been deliberately so or that Merkel et al have not even the most basic grip on reality and how people's minds work. That they are now seeking to strongarm others into accepting their approach and bailing them out of their stupidity only compounds it. It's particularly ironic given their response to Greece, Germany seeking a no harm no foul refugee bail out from their culpable stupidity from everyone else. One rule for the vassals, another for the liege...

 

 

Apparently the major force pressuring for immigration in Germany are businessmen, in order to keep pressure on the wages and job market. It makes sense considering that most businessmen don't give a rats ass for their respective countries and long term political thinking. Its not like they'll have to rub shoulders with these people anyway.

[HoonDing]

 

Mission accomplished

[Meshugger]

Greetings from Lesbos!

 

 

Germany is expecting one million for 2015 instead of the old prediction of 800k. Then those million will bring their families and those families will have children which will love the society that they are in. History shown us how true that is, just check how better Sweden, Britain, France and The Netherlands have become the last 20 years. Civic duty has increased, brotherhoods have been created and the love of tolerance is much greater than any other force in the known world.

[BruceVC]

Greetings from Lesbos!

 

 

Germany is expecting one million for 2015 instead of the old prediction of 800k. Then those million will bring their families and those families will have children which will love the society that they are in. History shown us how true that is, just check how better Sweden, Britain, France and The Netherlands have become the last 20 years. Civic duty has increased, brotherhoods have been created and the love of tolerance is much greater than any other force in the known world.

This post smacks of profound sarcasm....I just don't believe you, sorry 

[Malcador]

From the sound of the headlines I thought Hungary used guns on them, turns out the "force" was water cannon and tear gas.

[BruceVC]

From the sound of the headlines I thought Hungary used guns on them, turns out the "force" was water cannon and tear gas.

Yeah it has been very dramatic hasn't it 

[Darkpriest]

Can't find the exact source now, but it seems that Lebanon, which was housing near 1,5 Syrian refugees, stopped their support for refugees, and is slowly forcing them out of the country through economical means.

 

Tent camps are illegal now, which forces the refugees to find housing. The housing in questions is often no more than 20 square meters of barely used solid constructions like a garage or some similar, for outrageous prices of 500-700 USD per month... This in turn makes more people to look towards EU as their final destination.

 

Nothing new from Turkey and how refugees are treated there, so can't say about their possible future, but I would not be surprised if those people would get the same treatment as the ones in Lebanon.

 

At the same time the Arabic peninsula states do not even want to hear about refugees coming to their countries.

 

It also seems that whatever the drama at the borders of EU is, the vast majority of refugees wants to reach Germany as their final destination. There have been reports in countries like Poland, that even the families that were given housing etc, decided to just "vanish" and move to Germany.

 

Germany in response tries to forcefully apply relocation of those refugees to the countries where they initially registered as war refugees, hence transit countries like Hungary, decided to simply close borders and not accept refugees from outside EU and are very skeptical to the mandatory quotas.

 

Eventually this will become more of a problem for Germany, Sweden, France, UK, as those are the "rich" EU countries with high social welfare, and those are the final destination countries for the "refugees" (we have no idea how many are actually refugees and how many are actually from Syria)

[Volourn]

"Actually I saw this full interview on CNN and he is very sincere, he is a Coptic Christian for starters and really is opposed to ISIS and wants to help the Syrians "

 

His religion is irrelevant. Why doesn't he use his millions to buy land in his own country and have the come there?

[Drowsy Emperor]

Greetings from Lesbos!

 

 

Germany is expecting one million for 2015 instead of the old prediction of 800k. Then those million will bring their families and those families will have children which will love the society that they are in. History shown us how true that is, just check how better Sweden, Britain, France and The Netherlands have become the last 20 years. Civic duty has increased, brotherhoods have been created and the love of tolerance is much greater than any other force in the known world.

 

Poor Greeks, this is the last thing they need at this time.

 

Frankly, it all comes back to Sweden and Germany (and looking further back, France, they are so guilty for the whole muslim invasion of Europe through trying to keep their colonial empire going past its time). If they didn't proclaim that Syrian refugees would be given asylum en masse, we wouldn't be in this situation. No one wakes up and spontaneously decides to go halfway across the world on a whim. Now the Balkans and Italy have to eat **** and get trampled over until Germany and Sweden finally decide to stop relocating the ME to the heart of Europe.

 

By the way, do you know the sole reason why they're rioting?

Edited September 17, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Darkpriest]

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

[Malcador]

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

Well, as long as it's not a problem for the US it's cool, the thinking is going I assume, heh.

[Luj1]

Hello everyone, I feel I just need to post some stuff here for everyone's sake.

 

 

 

http://imgur.com/a/HyMvk [/img]

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKl_FxWFOk

 

 

 

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16QDk2sig[/media]

 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Luj1

[Luj1]

If you want the truth ...

 

 

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fX73ggsMNEI[/media]

 

 

 

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5&v=xn-UCR5p0y0[/media]

Edited September 18, 2015 by Luj1

[Namutree]

 

By the way, do you know the sole reason why they're rioting?

 

I don't.

[BruceVC]

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

 

 

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

Well, as long as it's not a problem for the US it's cool, the thinking is going I assume, heh.

 

Guys come on, you can't possibly blame the USA for training people who later become there enemies. As far as Islamic extremism is concerned it  is this fractured and nebulous movement that often fights within itself. Its not like Islamic extremism is this monolithic group of people who  all have the same motives

 

So in other words you cannot predict if some people who are trained by the USA later turn against them, thats just a reality of this type of conflict

 

Look at the training of the Mujaheddin  by the CIA in Afghanistan ....look how that turned out 

 

Its got nothing to do with ignorance 

[Darkpriest]

 

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

 

 

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

Well, as long as it's not a problem for the US it's cool, the thinking is going I assume, heh.

 

Guys come on, you can't possibly blame the USA for training people who later become there enemies. As far as Islamic extremism is concerned it  is this fractured and nebulous movement that often fights within itself. Its not like Islamic extremism is this monolithic group of people who  all have the same motives

 

So in other words you cannot predict if some people who are trained by the USA later turn against them, thats just a reality of this type of conflict

 

Look at the training of the Mujaheddin  by the CIA in Afghanistan ....look how that turned out 

 

Its got nothing to do with ignorance 

 

 

It actually has a lot to do with ignorance.... Ignorance to the cultural development in that region in the last 4 thousands of years. If they would know and understand that, they would never used non-ruling parties as tools in their proxy wars... even when using the ruling parties, they should first know what is holding them at their power... because as we see  Sauds officially being friends to US while at the same time there are a lot of people in that family supporting islamic extremists... And looking that Sauds are basically a modern theocracy, it is not a surprise to anyone who has a basic grasp at the reality there.

 

Again, meddling in none of your affairs just makes things worse... and why? to secure natural resources and poke at Russia/Soviet Union.

[Darkpriest]

Meanwhile, Coratia closed 7 out of 8 border passes between them and Serbia to limit the influx of refugees.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

 

 

Meanwhile another proof that US ignorance is one of the factors that created these problems:

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/one-isis-top-commanders-star-165700972.html

Well, as long as it's not a problem for the US it's cool, the thinking is going I assume, heh.

 

Guys come on, you can't possibly blame the USA for training people who later become there enemies. As far as Islamic extremism is concerned it  is this fractured and nebulous movement that often fights within itself. Its not like Islamic extremism is this monolithic group of people who  all have the same motives

 

So in other words you cannot predict if some people who are trained by the USA later turn against them, thats just a reality of this type of conflict

 

Look at the training of the Mujaheddin  by the CIA in Afghanistan ....look how that turned out 

 

Its got nothing to do with ignorance 

 

 

It actually has a lot to do with ignorance.... Ignorance to the cultural development in that region in the last 4 thousands of years. If they would know and understand that, they would never used non-ruling parties as tools in their proxy wars... even when using the ruling parties, they should first know what is holding them at their power... because as we see  Sauds officially being friends to US while at the same time there are a lot of people in that family supporting islamic extremists... And looking that Sauds are basically a modern theocracy, it is not a surprise to anyone who has a basic grasp at the reality there.

 

Again, meddling in none of your affairs just makes things worse... and why? to secure natural resources and poke at Russia/Soviet Union.

 

No thats just not true, the USA has trained groups of people in the ME that have definitely aided them in various ways and conflicts ..its not meddling and is in fact prudent

 

The Kurds have been  a success story of Western training 

 

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/240120152

 

The reality is its easier in many ways  to train people who will do the hand to hand fighting in a conflict like Syria  than to send your own troops.

 

Of course the Syrian conflict and the various training programs have  been wracked with issues and logistical problems...I am not in denial about that. But that doesn't mean that any suggestions  to train various groups in the ME to fight Islamic extremism is a bad idea. But I am well aware of the issues around training in Syria and so are the USA 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/08/06/rebels-vanish-syria-starr-dnt-tsr.cnn

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/18/politics/syrian-rebels-pentagon-training-isis/

[Darkpriest]

The Kurds are NOT a success story... just wait till this conflict is over and it will bite US in the ass when their NATO ally, Turkey, will have big problems with trained and armed Kurds...

 

Apparently South African colonists are as ignorant to the history of the region as the US ones.

[Meshugger]

Meanwhile, Coratia closed 7 out of 8 border passes between them and Serbia to limit the influx of refugees.

 

Croatia NO!

 

Please Croatia, stop being racist! Now mutti Merkel is sad again

[BruceVC]

The Kurds are NOT a success story... just wait till this conflict is over and it will bite US in the ass when their NATO ally, Turkey, will have big problems with trained and armed Kurds...

 

Apparently South African colonists are as ignorant to the history of the region as the US ones.

And let me guess...you are well informed and know exactly what will ensure peace in the ME and address the issue of ISIS?

 

Since you are criticizing my views I am interested in what you suggest is the solution to deal with ISIS and the various conflicts, like Syrian civil war,  that have been created since the Arab Spring swept through the ME?

[Darkpriest]

Again, leave them to themselves... their societies need to evolve on their own and they first need to have majority of population backing the same idea.

 

As it is, there are too many diversified groups that have different agendas, even opposing each other.

 

There is no Arab spring... that's a term created by the wishful media in our countries, who wanted to label the events over there to the EU spring of nations from 18-19th century that moved many nations into the republican type of government, with elections etc.

 

In none of the middle-east countries you have governments that follow that suit... Egypt - military heads having the actual power, Turkey, also military guys making sure that the governments remain secular, etc.

 

None of the societies there actually desires such a form of a government in terms of majority of people... You have some groups that want that, but they are not majorities. The culture there still cultivates strong leaders and religion, with shariah being the fundament of law.

 

Igniting the region by arming it, and creating more militarized societies is exactly the opposite of what could lead to the changes in favor of more democratic societies with more emphasis on human rights and equality of genders.

 

Let them fail a few times on their own, and let them evolve on their own... Europe done that on its own, so they can do it to, they might need more time as the idea of democracy is completely alien to them (they are not a greek-roman region of culture) and they were fighting it for the last 3000 years, starting with Greek-Persian wars.

 

I have no idea, why people think that such a change can be done within few years, let alone even 1 generation. This change needs to be procedural evolution, and needs to span through probably 3-4 generations, but our current "leaders" do not want such slow processes, as they want control over natural resources of that region "NOW". Our societies are also to consumer heavy and with too much mentality of "I want it now" to understand the cultural need in that region.

 

Again, the "Arab spring" had nothing similar (aside of revolt) to the "spring of nations" that shaped most if not all Western societies. In majority, the people behind the uprising forces were various islamic movements (some of them very radical)... even the Egypt "voted" for islamic party initially, and eventually it forced Egyptian military to step in and remove the "elected" authorities from power.

 

To sum up... to not meddle in the internal affairs of ME countries, and surely not via making more and more civilian populace more militarized to fight your proxy wars for control over resources.