PC problems, need advice

[sorophx]

whaaaa... it could be short-circuiting somewhere inside the case. you need to assemble the PC out of the case on some insulator

[Sarex]

Switched out both PSU and mobo and same issue. It starts to whirl up for a couple seconds then shuts off. I'm out of ideas.

 

The CPU? That is the only thing left and it can cause the symptoms you've been having.

[ManifestedISO]

CPU or I wonder if the hard drives ... did you put new ones in this build, or ... I remember something went wrong last time, too ... overheating? No judgment for reusing personal drives ... 

[ShadySands]

Working now with new CPU. I didn't want it to be that since it would be the most expensive component but everything else checked out. I need to see if I can return the other parts this week. I also wonder how my CPU got messed up in the first place.

 

Thanks for the help everyone

[Sarex]

CPU or I wonder if the hard drives ... did you put new ones in this build, or ... I remember something went wrong last time, too ... overheating? No judgment for reusing personal drives ... 

 

It would still post even with a bad hard drive.

 

Working now with new CPU. I didn't want it to be that since it would be the most expensive component but everything else checked out. I need to see if I can return the other parts this week. I also wonder how my CPU got messed up in the first place.

 

Thanks for the help everyone

 

The CPU is the most sensitive component in there, so it could be anything from a small power surge (if your PSU lacks surge protection) to just the CPU wearing out (one of the many paths in it snapped). If you didn't overclock it, I would say that you just won the lottery but in a bad way.

[sorophx]

bumping this thread because I have new issues and some new info

 

anyway, since we last met I got a new RAM module and a new GFX card (GTX 680). all this time I was using my old CPU (i3 2120) because it has proven itself. today I was cleaning my case and decided to try and run my new CPU (that i5 3570K), figuring that with new RAM it shouldn't have any issues now. 

 

replacing the CPU caused Windows to hang on boot-up (Welcome screen), with a bunch of files becoming corrupted. removed the CPU and installed the old one again, fixed the Windows installation. replaced the CPU again for the new one. Windows hanged again on start-up, I tried waiting for Windows to recover, which would always result in a crash accompanied by screen flashing with colors changing rapidly. never had I seen anything like that.

 

remembered that my version of BIOS didn't actually support Ivy bridge processors. replcaed the CPU for the old one, updated BIOS to the latest stable version. booted the whole thing up, everything worked fine.

 

replaced the CPU again. loaded optimized defaults in BIOS. tried to boot Windows - doesn't even get to the Welcome screen. after 1 minute of showing a black screen after the loading screen the PC either turns itself off or just keeps chugging until I turn it off.

 

my first thought - PSU failure. judging by the PSU calculator, my system needs a total of 378 W with 30A on the +12V rail.

judging by Intel's own site, under max load the i5 requires 77W. 

 

I have more than enough power to cover that, PSU has 575W and 48A on the +12V rail at max load. so it shouldn't be an issue.

 

another possible point of failure - RAM. it's the same type of RAM I had before, but from a different manufacturer (not officially supported by my MOBO, but worked fine with the older CPU). again, the i5 does support it (1600 MHz), but I guess it could have issues.

 

then, I suppose, my HDD could be causing trouble. I'm not sure why it would work fine with a different CPU but not this one. maybe it's actually my OS version that is the culprit? I don't know, I'm running out of ideas.

 

anyway, for a clean experiment I should try a different HDD with a clean Windows installation, unfortunately, I don't have extra HDDs just lying around. I would retunr this CPU, but it was shipped from Canada, and shipping it back is such a PITA, I'm only considering it as a last resort.

 

any ideas?

[Bartimaeus]

Yes...but you've already eliminated the possibility of troubleshooting by swapping out parts (which is pretty much the only conclusive way to test hardware), so no.

 

I would go back to a single stick configuration of RAM to make sure that's not the problem. I doubt it is, based on the symptoms, but it doesn't hurt to try...beyond that, I don't really have any ideas. If you have a 32GB or more flash drive stick, set up a Windows installation on it to test with that. Failing that, you could try creating like a 32GB partition at the end of your current hard drive, setting your active system partition to be the new partition, and installing Windows on that new partition (which would allow you to set the original partition back to the active system partition later).

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[sorophx]

it's kind of funny, that with the old RAM module I was able to work fine for a few hours with the new CPU, but then, as we all now know, RAM failed (or many components failed), and things got really bad. now, the same CPU and new RAM are again having issues working together, and I;m beginning to wonder if the CPU was faulty all along, first busting my old RAM and now causing issues with the new one. 

 

it seems really odd that a CPU would be so picky about what RAM it worked with, even though it's the same kind of RAM basically, presumably supported by the CPU.

 

by the way, I should mention that the screen flashing happened when I had a GPU installed, I figured it probably was a driver problem so I removed the GPU and updated the drivers. before plugging it back in again I tried booting without the GPU, and that resulted in Windows not booting at all and having a black screen. so I'm beginning to wonder if it's the Intel HD graphics chip inside the new CPU that's causing trouble

Edited May 15, 2016 by sorophx

[Humanoid]

Having a bootable Linux stick always on hand is useful for situations like this. Also just run the integrated graphics while testing to minimise points of failure. (EDIT: Or if you suspect something's up, then explicitly disable it because it likely defaults to "auto")

 

Power draw isn't an issue, since all Intel CPUs have similar draw these days and your problems are not occurring under load so the system power consumption at point of failure would only be about 50W. Not to say it's impossible for it to be a PSU problem, but it can't be a wattage problem and since the other CPU works fine, it's unlikely to be a general PSU fault.

 

Optimised defaults for memory might also be incorrect, or maybe the memory isn't stable at the XMP settings. Manually set the RAM to the DDR3 standard of 1333MHz, timings at 9-9-9, 1.5V.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Humanoid

[sorophx]

Optimised defaults for memory might also be incorrect, or maybe the memory isn't stable at the XMP settings. Manually set the RAM to the DDR3 standard of 1333MHz, timings at 9-9-9, 1.5V.

actually, I tried setting my mem frequency to 1333, and BIOS refused to boot after that, forced switching back to optimized defaults. this memory doesn't have XMP at all, by the way.

 

I'll try adjusting the timings as well. one other thing of note: every time windows tries to boot with the new CPU it gets corrupted. every single attempt busts some files and I have to recover the installation on the old CPU. this seems like a memory problem at first glance

 

as for a bootable Linux stick... once upon a time a friend suggested I did that, he even provided a link to a version of Linux that he himself had been using forever. not having access to a flash drive I made a bootable CD, and it destroyed my CD-ROM. I'm very wary of using Linux anything from that day onward :D

Edited May 15, 2016 by sorophx

[Bartimaeus]

as for a bootable Linux stick... once upon a time a friend suggested I did that, he even provided a link to a version of Linux that he himself had been using forever. not having access to a flash drive I made a bootable CD, and it destroyed my CD-ROM. I'm very wary of using Linux anything from that day onward :D

 

Heh, that makes you sound like an old person. Something goes wrong once, the cause somehow ends up being totally misattributed, and then it's something that you invariably mention when certain parts and/or software are being discussed... For some reason, older people who aren't very computer-savvy seem to love to do this...

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[sorophx]

that makes you sound like an old person.

true I just don't have any spare flash drives to do it, actually, otherwise I'd try. I'll get a drive from my office on Monday, though.

[Bartimaeus]

Personally, I prefer to just use a bootable Windows flash drive, because I don't actually use Linux, but installing Windows on a flash drive can be a bit of a hassle since Microsoft doesn't want you to do that for some reason and normally prevents the installer from doing so. Windows is also much more cumbersome than Linux, and it runs very slowly off of a generic USB drive. Now if you can get a nice one that has good read speeds...

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[sorophx]

Optimised defaults for memory might also be incorrect, or maybe the memory isn't stable at the XMP settings. Manually set the RAM to the DDR3 standard of 1333MHz, timings at 9-9-9, 1.5V.

hmm, this memory stick  has weird settings. it has two memory channels listed in BIOS. channel A  has blanks for almost every value, but with the ability to set them to something manually. channel B has CAS Latency at 11 (along with tRCD 11, tRP 11, tRAS 28). I guess these should be all set to 9 'cept for the last one. but still, kinda mystified by this two-channels thing.

Edited May 15, 2016 by sorophx

[sorophx]

status report:

 

found a small Ubuntu "distro" online called Lubuntu. rolled a bootable USB with it. loaded from it. almost immediately after loading into the desktop screen the OS hanged. at this point I think it's safe to assume *something* is wrong with this CPU (same issue over and over), so I'll be shipping it to the original seller or Intel, hopefully I'll be able to get a refund (this thing cost 300$, too expensive for a paper weight).

[Bartimaeus]

You confirmed with swapping out RAM/Memtesting the RAM? Given that it's actually getting to desktop, my inclination would be RAM, not CPU. CPUs are extremely reliable* - I would make sure by memtest86-ing your RAM before shipping it back.

 

*And when they fail, they usually fail spectacularly...

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[sorophx]

well, this RAM is brand new, this is the first time these two part were ran together, and these are the same symptoms I had with another RAM plaque. even if it's this RAM too, no way of replacing it. since it works perfectly with the other CPU, I'd rather try my luck with Intel

[Bartimaeus]

Hardware is weird. I've had RAM work perfectly fine for a few weeks, then suddenly start causing the computer to crash every time after boot up for a few days, and then suddenly be fine again (and the cause being that it was actually defective after testing it with memtest86). I've also had a video card that was defective that was only having problems with a specific motherboard, but seemed to be fine in others. So, again, before you go through all that trouble of shipping it back (and especially considering how extraordinarily rarely CPUs actually break down or are defective), I would personally opt for memtest86-ing at least one stick and trying that (free program, in case you're wondering). But your mileage may vary.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[sorophx]

to be honest, I am reluctant to buy a third set of RAM just to get it working with this particular CPU, who knows how many RAM kits I will have to go through before I find one that'll be perfectly compatible with this CPU.

 

that's presuming RAM is to blame. I am willing to allow the possibility that this CPU has a defect, maybe QA at the assembly plant just didn't catch it, or maybe it got fried when I first installed it, I don't know. I'd much rather get my 300$ back at this point, to be honest. and spend it on a newer CPU + motherboard combo

[Bartimaeus]

memtest86

[sorophx]

status report: my brand new GFX card (which is not on warranty) stopped working after this whole new CPU business. the cooler is spinning, but Windows can't see it. it can see my other older card, though. I'm about to throw this PC out the window...

[Bartimaeus]

Ship it to me instead, :D

Edited May 16, 2016 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

status report: my brand new GFX card (which is not on warranty) stopped working after this whole new CPU business. the cooler is spinning, but Windows can't see it. it can see my other older card, though. I'm about to throw this PC out the window...

 

Try reinstalling the GPU driver using DDU.

[sorophx]

actually, it doesn't get detected by the motherboard, I should've said. if I disable the integrated Intel HD GFX chip, the mobo beeps once and restarts, enabling the Intel HD forcefully. the old card gets to the Windows, but crashes when watching videos or playing games. 

 

there's definitely something funky going on with the drivers, but the fact that the newer card stopped being detected after a bunch of CPU malfunctions is really weirding me out

Edited May 16, 2016 by sorophx

[Sarex]

actually, it doesn't get detected by the motherboard, I should've said. if I disable the integrated Intel HD GFX chip, the mobo beeps once and restarts, enabling the Intel HD forcefully. the old card gets to the Windows, but crashes when watching videos or playing games. 

 

there's definitely something funky going on with the drivers, but the fact that the newer card stopped being detected after a bunch of CPU malfunctions is really weirding me out

 

Hmm, I would think that the MB is faulty then, sounds to me like it's slowly dying. Could be that the north bridge on the mobo is faulty.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Sarex