The one thing I want for christmas expansion ...

[Zwiebelchen]

... is enemies not having infinite spells.

 

It destroys the opportunity for the devs to give enemies one-shot weapons of mass destruction, thus, limiting the choices in encounter design.

Plus, it limits the flexibility in player strategy at the same time. Outlast tactics simply do not work in PoE, as enemies never run out of spells.

 

I know that the idea was to avoid "mage chess", but unfortunately this came at the cost of unique encounter designs, as all encounters have to be designed around moderate spell choices that don't punish the player too hard in longer battles.

 

Also this would be an indirect buff for interrupt builds and spell stealing abilities. Both of which are completely unneccesary atm

 

 

I hope this will get fixed in the future. I get that we probably won't get this in a patch, but this could be part of an expansion, imho. It's imho just inconsistent design that enemy spellcasters ignore game rules completely.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Marky]

The combat would get more interesting if this was addressed. It would also help with solo playthroughs.

[Valorian]

Enemy spellcasters (not talking about monsters with innate spellcasting capabilities) have infinite spells? And I was praising PoE for having a symmetrical ruleset. 

Perhaps it's not working as intended.

[Matt516]

Tbh this has never bothered me because I don't notice it. What are they gonna do, cast the same buff over and over? Running out of spells in a single battle is quite difficult to do.

 

I wouldn't be against them standardizing the ruleset, of course. This just doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Much rather just see more difficult encounters and better enemy AI.

[Tigranes]

You often don't notice it, but it is indeed a stupid design decision. Enemies shoudl always work by the same rules unless there's a clear reason that it benefits gameplay.

[Hebruixe]

They wanted to avoid mage chess? As in, magic duels? I thought everybody loved that part of IE combat.

 

I could have sworn that Maerwald ran out of AoE spells when I battled him. But the stupid xaurips never quit paralyzing my party. I would be extremely happy if they placed a limit on enemy spells/special abilties, even if the limit was a bit high.

[Tigranes]

They wanted to avoid mage chess? As in, magic duels? I thought everybody loved that part of IE combat.

 

I could have sworn that Maerwald ran out of AoE spells when I battled him. But the stupid xaurips never quit paralyzing my party. I would be extremely happy if they placed a limit on enemy spells/special abilties, even if the limit was a bit high.

 

Xaurip Skirmishers' paralysis ability is for each successful hit with their spear - it is not a castable ability. This is easiest to see when you leave Xaurip Shamans alive, and they'll keep casting their priest spells endlessly.

[Nakia]

I play on Normal and not on  Hard or PotD which may explain why I haven't even noticed that wizards have unlimited spells.  I have Kana with his Aqueous target a mage.  Aoth also is set to hit them with spells and if I have a free melee fighter I may send them after a mage..

 

I was one of those who didn't care for IE mage chess so not every one loved it.  My tactic is take the wizards out as fast as possible.

[Zwiebelchen]

The infinite spells of enemies might not be a noticable problem in lower difficulty settings, but on PotD or any playthrough in which you try something exotic, like rushing the critical path or artifically gimping yourself, this is a real issue, as it basicly renders stalemate situations an automatic loss.

 

And I can see this adding lots of limitations in encounter design for epic level content. Again; I'm not talking about innate abilities. I'm talking about actual spellcasters like mages, druids and priests.

Especially Priests are extremely annoying in PoE because of this. On PotD, you will often face giant groups of monsters, often with 2 or more clerics (Xaurips).

 

While you, as in the player, run out of spells very fast, enemy priests can just continue healing their group endlessly. If you don't have a way to stop them from doing so (well... too bad; interrupt sucks, so you're pretty much ****ed if you main ranged DDs are occupied), good luck killing them.

Ogre druids are also extremely annoying because of this with their OP 5th level insect swarm and the 4th level boulder spell they just never stop casting.

 

Notice that all these encounters are frequently mentioned when talking about difficult encounters in PotD?

That's because the increase of stats really showcases and underlying mechanics issue here:

Enemies have high deflection and high DR in PotD. Which means most of your spells and attacks will graze or miss at appropriate character level and deal low damage. So unless you have a severe positioning advantage (doorway cheesing), there is no way to take out spellcasters early, especially if they come in groups. And you can not outlast them either.

 

 

@Matt516:

Running out of spells in a single fight is actually pretty easy, as you only have 4 spell uses per level. Especially on bounties, I've seen priests spam level 5 and level 6 spells endlessly.

The cool thing about Vancian spellcasting rules in the IE games was, that while spells were often devestating, enemies couldn't cast them endlessly. Which offered many tactical opportunities in which damage prevention was a legit way to beat encounters. The enemy mage just used his Horrid Withing? Great, now that that is gone, prepare to die! If you couldn't dispel their defenses, you always had the possibility to just buff up on your own protection spells and just outlast the enemy, poking them with sticks.

If you try that in PoE, you are pretty much just wasting your spell uses, especially due to the low duration of buffs. What is the point in using a "Prayer Against" spells if they can just keep casting these spells endlessly?

 

 

And this is not the only case of asymmetrical rules in PoE.

What about health? Granted, most classes have 4-5 times the health that they have endurance and in standard cases you will mostly never notice this. But, again, especially on stalemate situations this is a critical factor: even with constant healing, enemies never run out of health.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Valorian]

Also, are you sure this applies only to spells? After all, spells are just a subset of abilities. Maybe enemy kith can dish out an endless stream of active abilities and talents too.

 

 

 

And this is not the only case of asymmetrical rules in PoE.

What about health? Granted, most classes have 4-5 times the health that they have endurance and in standard cases you will mostly never notice this. But, again, especially on stalemate situations this is a critical factor: even with constant healing, enemies never run out of health.

 

Yes, that's regrettable as well. It also penalizes them as they can't be resurrected by allies.

[Zwiebelchen]

Also, are you sure this applies only to spells?

 

It applies to all abilities, not just spells.

However, spores having an endless supply of charm spells can be justified as an innate ability. I can also live with non-humanoid melees having unlimited knockdowns.

 

It's just that for spellcasters, the innate ability excuse doesn't apply. Spellcasters should be limited in their spells exactly as much as players. Enemy ciphers or chanters should play by the rules, not being able to use their spells without focus/stacks.

 

The more symmetrical the design, the more strategical and tactical gameplay can be.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Valorian]

 

Also, are you sure this applies only to spells?

 

 I can also live with non-humanoid melees having unlimited knockdowns.

 

 

 

I was thinking about the kith (humanoids) having, for example, unlimited knockdowns; the same knockdown that a PC fighter uses. That's as problematic as unlimited spells.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

I was thinking about the kith (humanoids) having, for example, unlimited knockdowns; the same knockdown that a PC fighter uses. That's as problematic as unlimited spells.

 

 

Sure thing, the more symmetrical the ruleset, the better.

 

But let's not overdo it here, innate abilities should clearly be an exception to the rule. Also, story trumphs mechanics. So whenever a story boss or event implies bypassing of game rules, that is fine to me.

For example, Thaos summoning those giant statues.

[Luckmann]

It's not the one thing I want, but I entirely agree with the wish itself. Enemies should absolutely not "cheat" - they should be held by the same systemic limitations as the player, or at the very least roughly so. For example, you can't be a bear, but if you were a bear, you should have the same general abilities available to you as an NPC bear would have at the same level.

 

So while it'd be OK for, say, a puma to have a cooldownable infinite use of a rake attack, enemy priests should absolutely not have an infinite amount of spells, unless there's very good reason for it.

[Valorian]

 

 

I was thinking about the kith (humanoids) having, for example, unlimited knockdowns; the same knockdown that a PC fighter uses. That's as problematic as unlimited spells.

 

 

Sure thing, the more symmetrical the ruleset, the better.

 

But let's not overdo it here, innate abilities should clearly be an exception to the rule. Also, story trumphs mechanics. So whenever a story boss or event implies bypassing of game rules, that is fine to me.

For example, Thaos summoning those giant statues.

 

 

But of course, monsters' innate abilities are an exception, as is Thaos and his amazing minions.