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Here's another video showing how a paladin is able to tank the adra dragon in potd and without heals - no traps, no cheap tactics. Base stats - wild orlan 17mig/15con/4dex/20per/3int/18res. Adragans had to be killed first to prevent summons/healing for the dragon... I used jolting touch scrolls because they're common/easy to craft and don't require high lore.

 

https://youtu.be/0nNLwfGrpKQ

 

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don't think +2 DR made that much difference in that video.. But those jolting touch scrolls might eat a nerf at some point ..

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don't think +2 DR made that much difference in that video.. But those jolting touch scrolls might eat a nerf at some point ..

If we assume everything else in this console created character is legit, yes, but why stop there? ;)

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Yeah as I said before game which is possible to modify locally talking about cheese, balance, achievements or legit is .. lol

 

I do not remember any IE game being re-balanced continually. Where is that legacy? In dust. Now we have experts on balance and how to play properly. Also .. lol

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You are a riot consoling yourself superb armor before you even drop the enchant ingredients.

 

Look who's talking...  :rolleyes: Go troll your own thread...  8)

 

PS.

 

 

Oh I didn't realise the guy didn't even work for his achievement.  :o

Well in that case I will definitely respec since I already put 40 hours into that save clearing everything in the game except Od Nua levels 11-15 and the bounties.  :)

 

 

 

So I just killed the dragon with dex reduced to 9 and might raised to 18 using no potions and figurines. Vid follows later.

 
Edited by Kaylon

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You are a riot consoling yourself superb armor before you even drop the enchant ingredients.

 

Look who's talking...  :rolleyes: Go troll your own thread...  8)

 

Well I don't cheat so I don't know what you're talking about, but don't worry, I will leave "your" thread alone, have fun with your theoretical chars created only for one encounter via console, while the rest of us play the game as intended. :)

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don't think +2 DR made that much difference in that video.. But those jolting touch scrolls might eat a nerf at some point ..

+2DR did not, but +4 deflection and reflex from superb shield surely did. Jolting touch scrolls are probably bugged in a way OSA was - they are carrying stats from some early beta version. The spell deals way less damage and spells seem to be consistent with scrolls for the most part. I suppose these will be equalized at some point. But it's possible to use malestrom scrolls instead anyway (although that would require way more lore).

 

Serel's boon is also a one time bonus. I suppose you can "save" it for this fight specifically but looks a bit stretched.

 

A question to the OP: why do you have all the food bonuses applied twice? It shows effects of the 2nd bonus suppressed in the charsheet. Is there any bug that makes them stack nevertheless?

Edited by MadDemiurg
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don't think +2 DR made that much difference in that video.. But those jolting touch scrolls might eat a nerf at some point ..

+2DR did not, but +4 deflection and reflex from superb shield surely did.

 

Serel's boon is also a one time bonus. I suppose you can "save" it for this fight specifically but looks a bit stretched.

 

A question to the OP: why do you have all the food bonuses applied twice? It shows effects of the 2nd bonus suppressed in the charsheet. Is there any bug that makes them stack nevertheless?

 

 

They don't stack (you can see one of them is suppressed when I scroll through character sheet). I lost some time preparing the fight and I wanted to make sure the buffs won't expire before the end of the fight. I thought they will replace the other buffs while reseting timers, but the game keeps them all and disable the effects until the first expires. Serel buff is unique indeed, but there's another one who gives +2mig/+2con which can be used instead with a little bit of stat rebalancing - you'll lose 1-2deflection in the process. 

 

PS. The point of the video isn't to show what I can do, but what can be done with a well build paladin. Of course it's an end game build and discussions about anything else outside the build itself are pointless.

Edited by Kaylon

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Looks more like a video about scrolls being really good than about an actual class's ability to take on an encounter.

Edited by eubatham

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Looks more like a video about scrolls being really good than about an actual class's ability to take on an encounter.

 

Well, maybe you should try to tank the dragon with the other classes too and see how it works... (and of course you're free to use whatever spells/scrolls you want)

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With this level of min/max a fighter would only be below paladin by 17 fort & ref (and 2 above in deflection) with passives only and 22 defl/3 fort/ref above with vigorous defence although it won't last too long with dumped int. But since you can sacrifice 22 defl in stats you don't have to dump int (you can also use scrolls of defense if more time is needed). After he resurrects via unbroken if killed he also has a big bonus to saves.

 

Wiz can best that deflection and reflex, but not fort unless he uses martial prowess. With martial prowess he can beat that fort as well. Fort is mostly needed for melee in that fight though, which you don't have to do (and if you do might as well use prowess).

 

Priest can pull off some crazy saves given enough buff time too.

Edited by MadDemiurg

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Well, no matter how high your int is you can't make a 15s buff last 4-5min and once you die you lose food/resting bonuses which are much more than what unbroken gives. Also, the fighter, without access to righteous soul will be constantly terrified meaning he has to compensate for that too - if he uses a prayer against fear scroll he loses a slot and defiant resolve, if he doesn't he loses 4dex/4res and 20 accuracy which is equally bad.

 

Talking about wizards, I think it's better to let them do what they're meant to - CC and damage. They can tank probably for 1min but will suffer from the same problems as the fighter and on top will spend nearly half of the time trying to keep their buffs up. Priests I wouldn't even bother to argue...

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Well, no matter how high your int is you can't make a 15s buff last 4-5min and once you die you lose food/resting bonuses which are much more than what unbroken gives. Also, the fighter, without access to righteous soul will be constantly terrified meaning he has to compensate for that too - if he uses a prayer against fear scroll he loses a slot and defiant resolve, if he doesn't he loses 4dex/4res and 20 accuracy which is equally bad.

 

Talking about wizards, I think it's better to let them do what they're meant to - CC and damage. They can tank probably for 1min but will suffer from the same problems as the fighter and on top will spend nearly half of the time trying to keep their buffs up. Priests I wouldn't even bother to argue...

I haven't actually tested if unbroken makes you lose the buffs, but second chance does not, so I don't see why it should be any different. For fear aura you can use recovery potions. Yes, you'll lose an item slot, but I think you can get away with it.

 

For wiz it's more like 3 min, but it won't take too much time to take out the dragon for them. In a party - yes, they're better off as DPS/CC. But even a glasscannon wiz can have good defences on demand. +40 ref is quite easy and wiz is likely to have high dex. And this is theorycrafting anyway, not building for a real party/solo playthrough. Half time to keep the buffs up is a huge exaggeration - wiz buffs are almost instant.

 

As for priest:

 

Champion's boon: +20 Fort, +20 Ref, + 10 deflect

Crowns for the faithful: (Per bonus is suppressed) +25 deflect, +62 will

Both long duration

+15 to all defenses of top with circle of protection/scroll of defense

All this stuff stacks

Edited by MadDemiurg

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Well, no matter how high your int is you can't make a 15s buff last 4-5min and once you die you lose food/resting bonuses which are much more than what unbroken gives. Also, the fighter, without access to righteous soul will be constantly terrified meaning he has to compensate for that too - if he uses a prayer against fear scroll he loses a slot and defiant resolve, if he doesn't he loses 4dex/4res and 20 accuracy which is equally bad.

 

Talking about wizards, I think it's better to let them do what they're meant to - CC and damage. They can tank probably for 1min but will suffer from the same problems as the fighter and on top will spend nearly half of the time trying to keep their buffs up. Priests I wouldn't even bother to argue...

I haven't actually tested if unbroken makes you lose the buffs, but second chance does not, so I don't see why it should be any different.

 

For wiz it's more like 3 min, but it won't take too much time to take out the dragon for them. In a party - yes, they're better off as DPS/CC. But even a glasscannon wiz can have good defences on demand. +40 ref is quite easy and wiz is likely to have high dex. And this is theorycrafting anyway, not building for a real party/solo playthrough.

 

As for priest:

 

Champion's boon: +20 Fort, +20 Ref, + 10 deflect

Crowns for the faithful: (Per bonus is suppressed) +25 deflect, +62 will

Both long duration

+15 to all defences of top with circle of protection/scroll of defence

And another +25 deflect/20 ref with potion of displaced image

All this stuff stacks

 

 

A wizard can't keep all his defenses up for more than 1m realistically (considering he needs also some overlaping to avoid surprises). I also doubt he can kill much more faster because he has to pick only defensive talents too. 

 

Priest depending on buffs that last 10s isn't worth mentioning, sorry. Even if you push for 30int yo will have to gimp your other stats.

 

Anyway, if you're able to show all that working in a video - with any of these classes (even fighter) - I would be more than happy to watch it.

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Looks more like a video about scrolls being really good than about an actual class's ability to take on an encounter.

 

You're hated for this class seems unhealthy.  Perhaps you should show your video with other classes fighting this class to prove your point better.

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The vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEKduc3IUM&feature=youtu.be

 

Disclaimer:

The vid is using console generated char, all items/talents are obtainable in the game. However some of the items (little savior to be exact) are not obtainable before defeating the dragon (although it might be possible to sneak into the treasury, has anyone tried that?). They are by no means necessary though, and only present since OP has taken the liberty to use superb armor/shield as well (which are definitely not obtainable without defeating the dragon). Stats/talents are not really optimized, cautious attack is a complete waste for instance since it does not stack with better wiz buffs (forgot about that). Stats are M 18 D 19 C 3 P 4 I 19 R 15 (standard glass cannon wizard). Talents are W&S, Superior deflection, Deep pockets, Bear's fortitude, Snake's reflexes and Cautious Attack. As I said CA is a waste and the only really indispensable talent is W&S, others you can skip with a bit of stat tweaking and go for stuff like veil/fast runner/caster talents.

 

In the vid the dragon got stuck between xaurips for a few sec,  but I freed him with maelstrom. I did the fight several times to ensure I can repeat it. It is actually possible to die if you attack the dragon upfront before you get your buffs up, so it's actually better to attack the minions first and buff, but I wanted to demonstrate a facetank approach. however, with second chance item you're guaranteed to survive and get all your buffs up and running (I had it, but didn't need it), and then it's very difficult for the dragon to touch you. It is possible to raise deflection further with stuff like mirror image.

 

As seen in the video, I had 30+ seconds on most buffs after the dragon died (I actually wanted to use smth else than scrolls but martial prowess was still active and I didn't have a backup dps weapon) and I had enough casts to rebuff it 1-2 times more.

 

The fight is much easier if you use hard CC though and doable without any scrolls in this case.

 

Probably i could've recorded a better vid, and optimize the char better but I don't want to spend more time on it.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure I can do priest and fighter as well (and priest buffs last waaay more than 10 sec, but I'm not sure I want to spend time on it)

Edited by MadDemiurg

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You're hated for this class seems unhealthy.  Perhaps you should show your video with other classes fighting this class to prove your point better.

 

 

I didn't comment on the Paladin class, I commented on the video and that it's basically just about the scrolls than the class (ANY class). Feel free to share your point of view in the approriate thread, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/77839-are-paladins-really-not-that-bad/, instead of going off topic. And please, try to refrain from making things up, just to out your frustrations. 

 

As for other classes, I'm quite sure I saw a fighter post a similar kill some time ago. I'll look for it later.

Edited by eubatham

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One of the main things those vids show and also the solo triple crowns is that the consumables in this game are incredibly powerful.

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The vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEKduc3IUM&feature=youtu.be

 

Disclaimer:

The vid is using console generated char, all items/talents are obtainable in the game. However some of the items (little savior to be exact) are not obtainable before defeating the dragon (although it might be possible to sneak into the treasury, has anyone tried that?). They are by no means necessary though, and only present since OP has taken the liberty to use superb armor/shield as well (which are definitely not obtainable without defeating the dragon). Stats/talents are not really optimized, cautious attack is a complete waste for instance since it does not stack with better wiz buffs (forgot about that). Stats are M 18 D 19 C 3 P 4 I 19 R 15 (standard glass cannon wizard). Talents are W&S, Superior deflection, Deep pockets, Bear's fortitude, Snake's reflexes and Cautious Attack. As I said CA is a waste and the only really indispensable talent is W&S, others you can skip with a bit of stat tweaking and go for stuff like veil/fast runner/caster talents.

 

In the vid the dragon got stuck between xaurips for a few sec,  but I freed him with maelstrom. I did the fight several times to ensure I can repeat it. It is actually possible to die if you attack the dragon upfront before you get your buffs up, so it's actually better to attack the minions first and buff, but I wanted to demonstrate a facetank approach. however, with second chance item you're guaranteed to survive and get all your buffs up and running (I had it, but didn't need it), and then it's very difficult for the dragon to touch you. It is possible to raise deflection further with stuff like mirror image.

 

As seen in the video, I had 30+ seconds on most buffs after the dragon died (I actually wanted to use smth else than scrolls but martial prowess was still active and I didn't have a backup dps weapon) and I had enough casts to rebuff it 1-2 times more.

 

The fight is much easier if you use hard CC though and doable without any scrolls in this case.

 

Probably i could've recorded a better vid, and optimize the char better but I don't want to spend more time on it.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure I can do priest and fighter as well (and priest buffs last waaay more than 10 sec, but I'm not sure I want to spend time on it)

 

Hah nice! See OP- Paladin not only one. Wizard not only tanked as good, but killed Adra faster. I bet someone will do it with Fighter.

 

Good work both of you! :) Shame that heavy scroll usage is required.

Edited by Voltron

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The vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEKduc3IUM&feature=youtu.be

 

Disclaimer:

The vid is using console generated char, all items/talents are obtainable in the game. However some of the items (little savior to be exact) are not obtainable before defeating the dragon (although it might be possible to sneak into the treasury, has anyone tried that?). They are by no means necessary though, and only present since OP has taken the liberty to use superb armor/shield as well (which are definitely not obtainable without defeating the dragon). Stats/talents are not really optimized, cautious attack is a complete waste for instance since it does not stack with better wiz buffs (forgot about that). Stats are M 18 D 19 C 3 P 4 I 19 R 15 (standard glass cannon wizard). Talents are W&S, Superior deflection, Deep pockets, Bear's fortitude, Snake's reflexes and Cautious Attack. As I said CA is a waste and the only really indispensable talent is W&S, others you can skip with a bit of stat tweaking and go for stuff like veil/fast runner/caster talents.

 

In the vid the dragon got stuck between xaurips for a few sec,  but I freed him with maelstrom. I did the fight several times to ensure I can repeat it. It is actually possible to die if you attack the dragon upfront before you get your buffs up, so it's actually better to attack the minions first and buff, but I wanted to demonstrate a facetank approach. however, with second chance item you're guaranteed to survive and get all your buffs up and running (I had it, but didn't need it), and then it's very difficult for the dragon to touch you. It is possible to raise deflection further with stuff like mirror image.

 

As seen in the video, I had 30+ seconds on most buffs after the dragon died (I actually wanted to use smth else than scrolls but martial prowess was still active and I didn't have a backup dps weapon) and I had enough casts to rebuff it 1-2 times more.

 

The fight is much easier if you use hard CC though and doable without any scrolls in this case.

 

Probably i could've recorded a better vid, and optimize the char better but I don't want to spend more time on it.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure I can do priest and fighter as well (and priest buffs last waaay more than 10 sec, but I'm not sure I want to spend time on it)

 

Very good job on killing the dragon fast, but after the first hit you were all the time out of his range, you just killed him from range (the dragon didn't even attack you another time) - I wouldn't call that tanking (even though after blinding him you had the stats to do it).  ;) Seeing maelstrom damage and the actual accuracy/defenses of the dragon would have been nice too. Also you were lucky the adragans didn't slip a petrify on you (during one of my tries, before I decided to kill them first, they were managing to roll over 90 and petrify me...) 

PS. If you played with the latest patch can you verify if the protection from petrification from berath's boon is working? Becase in my game it doesn't...

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