So, traps?

[Silent Winter]

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

I mean the latter - but I'd expect the basic idea of a trap to be the same (it should either trigger and then roll for a hit/miss or roll for a hit/miss and then trigger).

We can't set odd-shaped trap areas but why would the basic mechanics of a trap be different for party v. enemy traps?

[Nakia]

 

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

I mean the latter - but I'd expect the basic idea of a trap to be the same (it should either trigger and then roll for a hit/miss or roll for a hit/miss and then trigger).

We can't set odd-shaped trap areas but why would the basic mechanics of a trap be different for party v. enemy traps?

 

I agree especially as we get the traps by disarming a trap.  The two are related and should be consistent.

[Zwiebelchen]

Traps were great in 1.04. But I really wonder why accuracy was nerfed in 1.05. It's not like traps were totally overpowered or a game-changer. They were a free spell in PotD at the beginning of combat and a great way to apply a debuff fast, but that's about it. I have 3 characters with high mechanics skill to place more than one... now I feel like I threw all those points away. 

 

I don't get it... did anyone ever complain about traps being too good?

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

So mechanics effects the accuracy of set traps? Do we have any numbers for that?

 

I always assumed mechanics would only effect whether or not the trap could be set - not how likely it was to hit/go off.??

Yes, look at the Mechanics entry on the character sheet. It's not like the information is hidden.

 

+3 trap accuracy per point in Mechanics. Mechanics 0 = +0 trap accuracy. Mechanics 10 = +30 trap accuracy. Higher end traps have -25 Accuracy, so don't even bother trying to set one unless you're sporting at least Mechanics 8 (-1 accuracy)

 

So even if you put a trap in a choke point, it won't trigger unless the person setting it has enough Mechanics to make the trap accurate enough to "hit" when stepped on.

 

So if the trap 'misses' , then it just stays there until it hits?

That seems like a weird solution to me - I've had Eder trigger traps that missed him, but never walk over a trap that didn't trigger.

Enemies walk over my traps like they're not there (Set by Durance with 9 in mechanics), but his seals trigger ok (larger area maybe).

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

 

Saying "that's my experience" is a bit disingenuous, considering that there's no factual basis for the claim. What you've seen is likely what the rest of us describes - traps not triggering - and you've attributed it to the Accuracy/miss mechanics.. why? There's no basis for that at all. In fact, I've never, ever, ever seen a trap Miss, nor seen a trap not trigger provided that an opponent moves through the middle of the trap.

 

Unless the trap triggers, there is no roll at all, and if it triggers, you're notified. If a trap doesn't trigger, it's not a miss - it just hasn't triggered. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Accuracy of the trap or the Mechanics of the user.

[Guest]

 

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

I mean the latter - but I'd expect the basic idea of a trap to be the same (it should either trigger and then roll for a hit/miss or roll for a hit/miss and then trigger).

We can't set odd-shaped trap areas but why would the basic mechanics of a trap be different for party v. enemy traps?

 

Because they are. There isn't some NPC setting those ahead of our party, whose Mechanics skill is going to determine whether or not Eder triggers it. 

 

Enemy traps are not the same as party traps.

 

Traps were great in 1.04. But I really wonder why accuracy was nerfed in 1.05. It's not like traps were totally overpowered or a game-changer. They were a free spell in PotD at the beginning of combat and a great way to apply a debuff fast, but that's about it. I have 3 characters with high mechanics skill to place more than one... now I feel like I threw all those points away. 

 

I don't get it... did anyone ever complain about traps being too good?

No one complained.  A bunch of people posted Solo runs where they cheesed the hell out of traps and the devs realized that they needed to be nerfed.

 

I think saying that you threw those points away is hyperbole. The traps themselves didn't change that much. You just can't expect a party member with 3 points in Mechanics to set top tier traps anymore. Makes sense to me.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

No one complained.  A bunch of people posted Solo runs where they cheesed the hell out of traps and the devs realized that they needed to be nerfed.

 

I think saying that you threw those points away is hyperbole. The traps themselves didn't change that much. You just can't expect a party member with 3 points in Mechanics to set top tier traps anymore. Makes sense to me.

 

 

How much cheesing can you actually do with traps solo? You can only place one per character after all.

 

I'm just saying that the majority of traps in 1.04 (that mostly deal 15-20 damage, with some rare exceptions) was only worth placing because traps critted the **** out of enemies and so also applied long-lasting debuffs. That was cool. Now with the reduced accuracy, not only the damage but also the debuffs suffer a lot. This change was uncalled for.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Silent Winter]

 

 

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

I mean the latter - but I'd expect the basic idea of a trap to be the same (it should either trigger and then roll for a hit/miss or roll for a hit/miss and then trigger).

We can't set odd-shaped trap areas but why would the basic mechanics of a trap be different for party v. enemy traps?

 

Because they are. There isn't some NPC setting those ahead of our party, whose Mechanics skill is going to determine whether or not Eder triggers it. 

 

Enemy traps are not the same as party traps.

irrelevant - the traps could easily have an accuracy rating - determined by the devs rather than by the mechanics rating  (and I think they do, as they miss Eder sometimes).

There's no reason to have 2 different systems.  Having the enemies trigger a player trap but having it also 'miss' wouldn't be a problem.  Having it not go off at all, leaves the rest of us scratching our heads.

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

I mean the latter - but I'd expect the basic idea of a trap to be the same (it should either trigger and then roll for a hit/miss or roll for a hit/miss and then trigger).

We can't set odd-shaped trap areas but why would the basic mechanics of a trap be different for party v. enemy traps?

 

Because they are. There isn't some NPC setting those ahead of our party, whose Mechanics skill is going to determine whether or not Eder triggers it. 

 

Enemy traps are not the same as party traps.

irrelevant - the traps could easily have an accuracy rating - determined by the devs rather than by the mechanics rating  (and I think they do, as they miss Eder sometimes).

There's no reason to have 2 different systems.  Having the enemies trigger a player trap but having it also 'miss' wouldn't be a problem.  Having it not go off at all, leaves the rest of us scratching our heads.

 

That's because Eder makes the save. There's a difference between a trap not firing because the person setting it didn't have sufficient skill to make the trap dangerous and a trap firing but doing no damage because your party member has sufficient Reflex (Fortitude, Will, whatever) to avoid taking damage.

 

Wish for whatever you want. I'm just trying to explain how it works. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Achilles

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

 

 

That's been my experience. Especially early in the game when no one on my team has a ton of points in Mechanics yet.

 

I'm not sure what "Eder trigger traps that missed him" means. Are you talking about traps you set or traps that you encounter? Not the same animal.

 

I mean the latter - but I'd expect the basic idea of a trap to be the same (it should either trigger and then roll for a hit/miss or roll for a hit/miss and then trigger).

We can't set odd-shaped trap areas but why would the basic mechanics of a trap be different for party v. enemy traps?

 

Because they are. There isn't some NPC setting those ahead of our party, whose Mechanics skill is going to determine whether or not Eder triggers it. 

 

Enemy traps are not the same as party traps.

irrelevant - the traps could easily have an accuracy rating - determined by the devs rather than by the mechanics rating  (and I think they do, as they miss Eder sometimes).

There's no reason to have 2 different systems.  Having the enemies trigger a player trap but having it also 'miss' wouldn't be a problem.  Having it not go off at all, leaves the rest of us scratching our heads.

 

That's because Eder makes the save. There's a difference between a trap not firing because the person setting it didn't have sufficient skill to make the trap dangerous and a trap firing but doing no damage because your party member has sufficient Reflex (Fortitude, Will, whatever) to avoid taking damage.

 

Wish for whatever you want. I'm just trying to explain how it works. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

 

 

Again, this is not a thing.

 

And I still have no idea why you'd think that it is.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Luckmann

[Gorbag]

Lemme try to help.
Once you set a trap, there are two possible conditions of it - triggered and untriggered. 
It starts out as untriggered and it remains untriggered until someone triggers it.
In order to get triggered, an enemy needs to stand squarely on top of the trap. That's all it takes for a trap to trigger. There's no Mechanics check or attack roll or anything. Enemy standing right on the trap = trap triggered. Even if the character setting it has 0 mechanics or its accuracy is -25.

 

Once the trap is triggered, we get to check if it does anything.

You get an "attack roll" for the trap, targeting one of the enemy's defences. It features a) how high the accuracy of the trap is and b) how high the respective target enemy defence is. Based on the result you get traps missing, grazing, hitting or critting, just as any attack would. 
The accuracy of the trap is a result of a) its base accuracy; b) modified by the amount of points the character setting it has in Mechanics.
So when you have more Mechanics, your traps should hit more often when triggered, not trigger more often.
In any case, once the trap is triggered, it disappears regardless of whether it hit anything or not.

Traps in the environment work basically the same way, but their accuracy is pre-defined, not based on someone's Mechanics.

[Luckmann]

Lemme try to help.

Once you set a trap, there are two possible conditions of it - triggered and untriggered. 

It starts out as untriggered and it remains untriggered until someone triggers it.

In order to get triggered, an enemy needs to stand squarely on top of the trap. That's all it takes for a trap to trigger. There's no Mechanics check or attack roll or anything. Enemy standing right on the trap = trap triggered. Even if the character setting it has 0 mechanics or its accuracy is -25.

 

Once the trap is triggered, we get to check if it does anything.

You get an "attack roll" for the trap, targeting one of the enemy's defences. It features a) how high the accuracy of the trap is and b) how high the respective target enemy defence is. Based on the result you get traps missing, grazing, hitting or critting, just as any attack would. 

The accuracy of the trap is a result of a) its base accuracy; b) modified by the amount of points the character setting it has in Mechanics.

So when you have more Mechanics, your traps should hit more often when triggered, not trigger more often.

In any case, once the trap is triggered, it disappears regardless of whether it hit anything or not.

 

Traps in the environment work basically the same way, but their accuracy is pre-defined, not based on someone's Mechanics.

 

This.

 

And I cannot stress the bolded part enough. They need to be right on top of the trap and it is my experience that in order for a trap to trigger, a part of the opponent - and not just the selection circle - must pass through the verymost middle of the trap.

 

Essentially, the entirety of the trap's area is meaningless, it is just a graphic representation of where the trap is placed. They need to pass through the trap itself at it's centre.

 

Which imo is a huge problem sometimes and I've seen huge opponents, including drakes (which I'd actually be fine with, considering that they're flying.. but that's an assumption the game isn't making at the moment) and lurkers deftly avoiding traps that they are clearly walking on. It has nothing to do with accuracy, nor does a trap not trigger due to poor accuracy. It either triggers, attacks, and is consumed, or it doesn't.

[Silent Winter]

That's because Eder makes the save. There's a difference between a trap not firing because the person setting it didn't have sufficient skill to make the trap dangerous and a trap firing but doing no damage because your party member has sufficient Reflex (Fortitude, Will, whatever) to avoid taking damage.

 

Wish for whatever you want. I'm just trying to explain how it works. If you don't like it, that's not my problem.

 

My point was that the trap triggers 100% of the time for enemy traps and ~0-2% of the time for mine (even with high mechanics scores (8-10))

Seems like a bizarre direction for Obs to take.  (The assumption that under this logic, all (theoretical but still) enemy trap-layers had a mechanics score of 5000 to lay a perfect unmissable trap, whereas you with a mere 8 mechanics can't lay a trap that hits anything at all).

 

It's less about my wishing and more about trying to understand it.  (Hope I'm not coming across as argumentative with you - I'm just trying to discuss it - hard to convey tone on a forum)

As others have asked - what are you basing it on?  What's the readout in your combat log for a 'miss' roll leaving an untriggered trap? (I can't see one)

Edited May 8, 2015 by Silent Winter

[Zwiebelchen]

My traps trigger almost every time an enemy walks through them (and if not, there's usually a second enemy that will walk through). It's just that the activation radius is smaller than is suggested by the marker. Once you know that, traps trigger in almost 100% of cases.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[teknoman2]

im using traps often and they work fine

if you use arrow or dart traps its normal that you see nothing but the effect is there. however the best traps are those that have effects like fireballs, poison clouds etc. these traps can really hurt the enemy if you can keep him in the aoe

[Gorbag]

My point was that the trap triggers 100% of the time for enemy traps and ~0-2% of the time for mine (even with high mechanics scores (8-10))

Seems like a bizarre direction for Obs to take. 

The reason for this is that traps in the environment (i.e. enemy traps) trigger when your character touches any part of the trap area, whereas the traps you place only trigger when the enemy steps right on top of them. It's not about Mechanics scores, it's about player-placed traps having a much smaller area than indicated by the marker. I don't know if this is a technical problem or not (I think it should be), but for the time being, try to place your traps so that the enemy is likely to walk through the center of the marker.

As for their effect, traps in the environment are almost always going to be more accurate than the ones you place (even if the ones you place are the exact same deadly traps you disarmed previously). Even more so after 1.05. This is intentional. Traps in the environment are meant to be deadly, while those you place are meant to be moderately useful. You are not meant to roll a BG2 Bounty Hunter, even if your Mechanics is over 11.

[abaris]

My traps trigger almost every time an enemy walks through them (and if not, there's usually a second enemy that will walk through). It's just that the activation radius is smaller than is suggested by the marker. Once you know that, traps trigger in almost 100% of cases.

 

That's not the major problem here. Have you tried traps running patch 1.05? Previously some of them were virtually able to one shot even Eder. I accidentally ran over one of them the other night and they didn't even leave a scratch on my party.

 

Well, yes, they may have been too strong in the past, but now they're definitely too weak to do any damage. I wouldn't go as far as one user saying the mechanics skill is useless right now, since there are about ten times as many locks to pick than traps to disarm, but I liked my traps for some tactical gameplay. It takes a lot of fun out of that approach, if you know that they won't give you any noticeable advantage.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

My traps trigger almost every time an enemy walks through them (and if not, there's usually a second enemy that will walk through). It's just that the activation radius is smaller than is suggested by the marker. Once you know that, traps trigger in almost 100% of cases.

 

That's not the major problem here. Have you tried traps running patch 1.05? Previously some of them were virtually able to one shot even Eder. I accidentally ran over one of them the other night and they didn't even leave a scratch on my party.

 

Well, yes, they may have been too strong in the past, but now they're definitely too weak to do any damage. I wouldn't go as far as one user saying the mechanics skill is useless right now, since there are about ten times as many locks to pick than traps to disarm, but I liked my traps for some tactical gameplay. It takes a lot of fun out of that approach, if you know that they won't give you any noticeable advantage.

 

 

It's still a better investment then all other skills.

Stealth? You pretty much only need one with a high stealth skill for stealing in houses. And some points on your melees to get in position. Athletics? 4 points for everyone to keep fatigue away on 20-hour travels. Lore? Only makes a difference for non-casters. Survival? Wtf is survival?

Edited May 8, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[abaris]

 

 Lore? Only makes a difference for non-casters. Survival? Wtf is survival?

 

 

It makes a lot of sense for casters too, since I don't need to resort to their per rest arsenal, if I have scrolls doing the same.

[Silent Winter]

 

My point was that the trap triggers 100% of the time for enemy traps and ~0-2% of the time for mine (even with high mechanics scores (8-10))

Seems like a bizarre direction for Obs to take. 

The reason for this is that traps in the environment (i.e. enemy traps) trigger when your character touches any part of the trap area, whereas the traps you place only trigger when the enemy steps right on top of them. It's not about Mechanics scores, it's about player-placed traps having a much smaller area than indicated by the marker. I don't know if this is a technical problem or not (I think it should be), but for the time being, try to place your traps so that the enemy is likely to walk through the center of the marker.

As for their effect, traps in the environment are almost always going to be more accurate than the ones you place (even if the ones you place are the exact same deadly traps you disarmed previously). Even more so after 1.05. This is intentional. Traps in the environment are meant to be deadly, while those you place are meant to be moderately useful. You are not meant to roll a BG2 Bounty Hunter, even if your Mechanics is over 11.

I don't mind them being less than deadly or even less accurate - I just want them to go off  

The trap marker needs to be changed to accurately show the trap trigger zone (or vice-versa) IMO

[Gorbag]

 

Lore? Only makes a difference for non-casters. Survival? Wtf is survival?

 

Those two mostly shine on higher difficulties/solo/Trial of Iron

Lore? Free spells!

Survival? Pre-buff!

Athletics and Stealth are unfortunately not that great, although Stealth is awesome for Triple Crown Solos.

[Luckmann]

On the note of skills, I wouldn't mind at all if trap effectiveness was moved to Survival, and Seals were affected by Lore.

[Gorbag]

On the note of skills, I wouldn't mind at all if trap effectiveness was moved to Survival, and Seals were affected by Lore.

Seals shouldn't be affected by anything else aside from the attributes affecting all Priest spells. If they are spells, they should behave as such, and if they are traps, they shouldn't be in the spell list. It makes no sense to me on a conceptual level.

[Luckmann]

 

On the note of skills, I wouldn't mind at all if trap effectiveness was moved to Survival, and Seals were affected by Lore.

Seals shouldn't be affected by anything else aside from the attributes affecting all Priest spells. If they are spells, they should behave as such, and if they are traps, they shouldn't be in the spell list. It makes no sense to me on a conceptual level.

 

 

Well Seals are affected by Skills. I would prefer them not to be, but since it has to be, I'd prefer them to be affected by Lore rather than Mechanics.

[abaris]

So I laid out a chainlightning trap with my 10 mechanics character. I looked what heppened. The trap did 7 damage to a guy wearing padded armor.

 

But, at least in my game, there's that continued nuisance of characters rushing to disarm my laid out trap whenever an AOE spell circle overlaps that thing. I had that with Aloth, whom I commanded to cast call to slumber. Instead he beelined for that trap, already triggered but not yet dissapeared.

[Nakia]

This has been a very beneficial thread for me.  I now have a much better understanding of traps.    I want to thank everyone who has so patiently explained the traps.  Even with the 1.05 patch I am finding traps some what more useful than before.