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[Class Build] Ranged Rogue PC Discussion (min/max)

Rogue Marksman Ranged Character Build Min/Max Player Character 1.05 POTD Buffs Discussion

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#1
Atchod

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Hello there forum , so with upcoming Patch 1.05 bringing ton of changes to our game , i decided to start my 3rd Playtrough for the new patch , with Min/Maxed Ranged Rogue PC meanwhile using "story companions" to support this character as hard as they can . I am going to play simple Path of the Damned , without any strings attached ( no Trial no Expert ).Here i make this topic so you could help me find best choices for this build , also to discuss anything that is related to Ranged Rogue and Player Character specific buffs and Min/Max'ing .Try to keep the discussion about Ranged Rogue only ( No Ranger , no Cipher discussion and no melee Rogue either) , also keep in mind that Max damage is the key and the point of this build not dialogue choices or anything else like that , so dont mix it into this thread . Thank You ! 

Spoiler Heavy !

Let's begin.

 

Race Choice : 

Hearth Orlan Living Lands(Might 18 Con 3 Dex 18 Per ? Int 18 Res ?) 

OR

Wood Elf Living Lands (Might 19 Con 3 Dex 19 Per ? Int 18 Res ?)

 

We got two Race choice's . At the moment i am leaning towards Hearth Orlan(Full Crit focused Build) but Wood Elf and its +Accuracy is always an option(This is POTD and Accuracy=Crit),also Wood Elfs tend to get better attributes and you can start 19 Might 19 Dex or 18 Might 20 Dex , meanwhile Orlan can get as good as 18 Might and 18 Dex only, but their racial is BEAST . Any1 choosing Wood Elf over Hearth Orlan ? Why ? Why Not ? 

 

Attributes :

Max Might , Max Dex , Max Int - These are the obvious choice's not much to discuss here tho ATM i am prioritizing Might over Dex all the way (Speed is nice but the damage just gets real with more Might and it doesnt scale that good with more Dex imo) Anyone maxing Dex over Might ? Going something like 18 Might 20 Dex Wood elf builds ? Why ? Why not ? 
 
Min Con - No use for constitution at all , this character is supposed to never get hit and use Shadowing Beyong if he does get targeted . 
 
Attributes choice : Perception or Resolve ? So After Maxing MIGHT,DEX,INT , Minimazing Con , we still got arround 12 Points left to almost max either Perception or Resolve . If interrupts were any good ( Maybe they will be after 1.05? ) Perception would be obvious choice ( also fits the class in general rpg sense ) , How Valuable is Some concentration(Resolve) if we never getting hit , also having high resolve would help WIll defense ( paired with max INT = much will , no charms ? ) . I am lost here , what would be your prefered choice ? Both seem to have little impact . That is why it is always hardest choice for me here when making a ranged rogue .
 
Skill Points DistributionStealth X , Athletics 3 , Lore 0 , Mechanics 2(Class) , Survival 10 .
So the idea here is to get 3 Athletics for basic needs , and Max Survival ( Using potion or two every fight on this character is gona be a thing , even on trash fights etc , more into that later ) , after survival i put rest points into Stealth, 2 Points in Mechanics from Class will be enough to cover early game needs , after that just gona dedicate one of the companions to have 10 , not planing to use even single scroll with my ranged marksman so Lore = 0 .
 
Talent Build :
Marksman  > Shadowing Beyond (OH Sheet button, not gona run full glasscanon without this, getting it as early as i can either) > Vicious FightingPenetrating Shot > Bloody Slaughter - Self Explanatory Here Max Red Numbers .
 
Last Talent Choice: Weapon Focus Adventurer / Devastating Blows / Envenomed Strike / Interrupting Blows(If Maxed Per over Res) . Last talent choice is unclear , what would be your choice out of these ? Devastating Blows +2% seems pathetic kinda... Interrupting Blows might be a thing after 1.05 ? anyone tested it ? WF: A is always a decent choice so is Envenomed Strike's ( Not that good with a bow tho ) . What is your opinion here ? what would you choose ? why this and not that ? 
 
Skills Choice :
 
Level 1 : Blinding Strike / Crippling Strike ? - Which one is better for ranged rogue ? why do you think so ? Blidning clearly better debuff but Crippling is 2 per encounter .
Level 3 : Dirty Fighting - Obvious Choice 
Level 5 : Finishing Blow / Deep Wounds / Level 1 Skill ? - Confused Here Level 5 and 7 you can take 2 out of these 3 skills which ones you go for ? Why ?
Level 7 : Finishing Blow / Deep Wounds / Level 1 Skill ? - Same as above 
Level 9 : Withering Strike / Fearsome Strike ? - Same choice like lvl 1 , which 1 is better ? 1 Per rest ( sets up deathblows ) or 2 per encounter ( 1 debuff only )
Level 11 : DeathBlows - R.I.P Enemy 
 
Weapon Choice : War Bow - Borresaine / Cloudpiercer - Which one is better ? Stunning seems to be way to go for me is Jolting Touch striking worth it ? 
 and The Rain of Godagh Field for endgame.
2nd Set : Arbalest for Alpha Strike - Is it worth to open with arbalest and switch to war bow? Too time Consuming maybe(Without quick switch it takes long to recover) ? What is your Opinion ?
 
Other Items : Best i can get (+3Might , +3 Dex ,+2/3 Int , +2/3 Perc/Resolve , +Crit) 
Armor : Clothing + Gwisk Glas /Jack of Wide Waters - When i need more armor/survival/2nd chance ill swap clothing for those 2 . Any other good armors to consider ?
 
Buffs Choice,Faction Choice, PC Talents Choice :  In general i am leaning towards stacking might with every buff possible ( Inns,Courtesans) , any1 consider to stack Dex instead ? A little bit of Both ? Why and why not ? 
 
Here are the Buffs and Talents available trough the game :
 
Mob Justice ( Dozens +5 Acc ) or Merciless Hand ( Doemenel +0.3 Crit Dmg ) - This is important choice , what would be better stacking even more accuracy or going for crit damage ? does this one stack with Dungeon Delver ? I am leaning towards Merciless Hand , but going Merciless Hand + Hearth Orlan over Dozens+Wood Elf is huge accuracy loss in the end , that is why there is a decision here . 
Galawain ( +1Might+1Athletics ) or Skaen ( +1Dex+1Survival)
Wild Running (+Defenses ) or Dungeon Delver ( +0.1 Crit ) - Does this stack with Merciless Hand ?
Salty Mast Boon Choice(Much faction them courtesans) +2Might+2Const (Alternative +2Dex+2Const)
Sacrifice Companion Choice (SO CRUEL :D) Sagani(+1Per+2Accuracy) or Hiravias (+1Dex+1DT)
Food Choice :  +2/3Might Egg/Beef or Dragon (Alternative +2Dex)
Inn Choice before Important Fights : Dragon's Lair +2Might+2Int+2Cons (Alternative+2Dex or +4 Int) 
 
Gift From the Machine(+1Might) ,Blooded Hunter(+1Stealth),Song of the Heavens(+1Per), Scale-Breaker
 
Potions Choice : 
1 Healing + 3 DPS / 2 DPS + Figurine - Most Likely 3 DPS Potions and 1 Healing that restores alot of endurance instantly
Eldricht Aim(Stacks with what? What does this potion replace which buffs ? ) , Potion of Power , Potion of Merciless Gaze(Stacking? Does this Stack with Paladins Crit Aura ? if it replaces paladins crit aura there is no point to take pallegina as companion then ) , Potion of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion ( This is beast but only available from mid game in big quantities )
 
Companions : 
 
Eder Main Tank , Aloth 2ndOT+Debuffer+CC ,Durance Buffer/Healer+Gunner Arquebus(+Marking for PC from that endgame Arquaebus), Kana 1st OT+Buffs+Summons+Reload&Fire Chants ( Does Fire weapon chant enhance ranged ones ? )
Last Companion Choice : Pallegina (Crit Aura ) / Grieving Mother (Cipherlol) - If Merciless Gaze Potion replaces Palladin's crit aura there is no choice here then , just taking GM .( Question here is if Palladins Crit aura is Exclusive is 5% of crit worth whole cipher maybe it is if thats 5% i cant get anywhere else ! )
Planing to use Wizard to setup Sneak Attacks for Rogue and Control the fight , priest to buff the rogue and heal the others , Eder for maintanking , Kana for Reload and Fire weapon chants . Going to do first part as a party of 5 until i can get trough Caed Nua then picking either Pallegina or GM , leaning towards GM at the moment .
 
Post your insights , advice and criticism , and help me make those choices , i know most of them seems pretty small but all of them together forms that one max damage build . I Will try to update the thread with your ideas and keep it documented , for people who want to min/max a true marksman . 

Edited by Atchod, 01 May 2015 - 08:55 AM.


#2
MoxyWoo

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Weapon focus i usually prioritze over everything else due to the 6 accuracy vs 5.

 

wood elf.. same reasons.

 

bows have crappy interrupt on their own, plus paranoid of own interrupts so resolve > per.

 

lvl 1 crippling.  2x hobble = 2 more sneak attacks for range too.

 

Stunning bow is prolly better.

 

20 dex.. multiplicative > dmg.

 

Ranged rogue to me is no maintenance = no weapon switch.  YMMV but i found them boring as a main PC and maxing mechanics is best on a npc


Edited by MoxyWoo, 01 May 2015 - 08:51 AM.


#3
Atchod

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You cant just imply that Wood Elf is auto choice over Hearth Orlan when you get +10% crit from hearth orlan and only 4 accuracy from wood elf  , 

You Are right about Weapon Focus , maybe i should swap it with Marksman as i am sure about the weapons i am gona go with and their War Bows. 

How important is concentration(and resolve as whole) tho if we never getting hit is another question , i rly would like some1 to tell from 1.05 beta testers how does Max Perception + Interrupting Blows looks like in game does it work ? is it worth it ? 

 

I lean towards Crippling over Blinding too , a wizard can aoe Blind from lvl 2 skills like a boss and there is not much good lvl 2 skills for a wizard so he can spam blinds pretty much . 

 

 

 

20 dex.. multiplicative > dmg.

what do you mean 

 

I will micromanage this char as much as i can so weapon switch is still in question also boring or not is not the case here , has nothing to do with this thread.


Edited by Atchod, 01 May 2015 - 09:02 AM.


#4
MoxyWoo

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Dex speeds up animation and recovery.. does double duty basically.

 

plenty of sources for damage for rogue but no attack speed.

 

rogues are always vs deflection hence they wanna double accuracy via marksman and focus.  not either or.  

 

other option for accuracy is to play with reckless and a pike or staff etc.  more accuracy and semi safe and shadowing beyond is still good for escapes and perception will help deflect.

 

YMMV but i like melee rogues more nowadays and they require more micro so they're intersting.



#5
dudex

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Biggest choice rogue gotta make is weapon . Unfortunately at first I thought Borresaine was the easy winner until i found that the stun status that it gives on critical hit just freezes people in place with no additional effects. Its not the stun status that causes massive deflection penalties and trigger sneak attacks.

 

So damage wise it isnt good. It is good for locking people down for a long time if you are being overwhelmed.

 

also increased weapon speed mods doesnt work on weapons making the rain not so useful.. so u are basically left with lenas or cloudpiercer for good bow choices for damage.

 

if you are going heavier there might be better choices.. I havent really played rogue archer after the Borresaine disappointment. Hopefully the speed mod is fixed next patch.


Edited by dudex, 01 May 2015 - 10:09 AM.


#6
gkathellar

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Island aumaua should also be strongly considered. Its Might bonus is valuable for a rogue, and with 3-4 weapon slots and quick switch, you can use 2-3 guns or arbalests for sneak attacks at maximum power while keeping a bow on hand for regular attacks.


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#7
Priestess

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Might = Max

 

Dex = Max

 

Con = Min

 

Intellect = 18

 

Resolve = 16

 

Perception = Min

 

 

 

Does this sound good? I don't know if I really need Resolve, Perception or even Intelligence. I don't care to RP. Help.


Edited by Priestess, 01 May 2015 - 12:06 PM.


#8
gkathellar

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Might = Max

 

Dex = Max

 

Con = Min

 

Intellect = 18

 

Resolve = 16

 

Perception = Min

 

Does this sound good? I don't know if I really need Resolve, Perception or even Intelligence. I don't care to RP. Help.

 

Intelligence can be useful, depending on your build. Perception is skippable unless you're desperate to try an interrupt build. Resolve is a bit less skippable, since you don't want to get interrupted.



#9
Priestess

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Might = Max

 

Dex = Max

 

Con = Min

 

Intellect = 18

 

Resolve = 16

 

Perception = Min

 

Does this sound good? I don't know if I really need Resolve, Perception or even Intelligence. I don't care to RP. Help.

 

Intelligence can be useful, depending on your build. Perception is skippable unless you're desperate to try an interrupt build. Resolve is a bit less skippable, since you don't want to get interrupted.

 

 

I know, mate. That's what I'm asking. I'm making a DPS Range Rogue just like OP, but I'm not sure which to dump first. Rogue doesn't have many duration abilities, and little to none AoE abilities. So doesn't that mean I should just drop Intelligence all-together? For example - 

 

Might = 18

Con = 3

Dexterity = 18

Perception = ?

Intelligence = 3

Resolve = ?

 

I'm not sure if you even need Resolve or Perception at all, considering Rogues shouldn't be getting hit at all so deflection is kind of pointless, right? 


Edited by Priestess, 01 May 2015 - 12:17 PM.


#10
Looms

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Wood Elf

 

18 Mig

3  Con

20 Dex

16 Per (iirc)

3  Int

18 Res


Edited by Looms, 01 May 2015 - 01:20 PM.


#11
Sanctuary

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Wood Elf

 

18 Mig

3  Con

20 Dex

16 Per (iirc)

3  Int

18 Res

I don't really see the point of raising Resolve so much. Not for a ranged Rogue.

None of the stats really matter other than Might and Dexterity, so I just max those and leave everything else at base.

 

 

Weapon Choice : War Bow - Borresaine / Cloudpiercer - Which one is better ? Stunning seems to be way to go for me is Jolting Touch striking worth it ? 
 and The Rain of Godagh Field for endgame.
 
I just use a fine War Bow until Cloudpiercer (which you can get relatively early).  Even though Jolting is only once per encounter, it still adds up to quite a bit over time, since it jumps targets.  I have never used Borresaine, and think the mods on it are pretty terrible.  Random stuns don't appeal to me either, especially if it messes up positioning for other classes.  I typically have at least one Wizard and one Cipher anyway, so CC isn't an issue.
 
I also take Penetrating Shot when using the War Bow, although I'm honestly not sure at what point it becomes relevant, if at all below PotD.  When 1.05 arrives, it might just be smarter to take 2x Arquebus, especially since you can weapon switch and it will automatically reload after the fight ends along with your current weapon.
 
I also don't like the Hearth Orlan racial.  It's overrated compared to Distant Advantage, and I'm not even sure if it works at all if you aren't at least 5m close to the same teammate you're trying to gain the buff from.  That's how the Marking weapons work (which makes the mod mostly useless).  If you want to get the most out of the racial, you're stuck always standing close to another member and always forcing them to be hitting the same target. Otherwise, you're losing damage.  Plus, depending on the enemy, both of you hitting it might actually be too much damage and a waste there too.  Hearth Orlan seems much better for a melee Rogue.

Edited by Sanctuary, 01 May 2015 - 01:47 PM.


#12
rheingold

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Regarding companions you definitely want a cipher in there for sneak attacks via phantom foes. By far the easiest set up for a ranged rogue.

#13
Sanctuary

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Regarding companions you definitely want a cipher in there for sneak attacks via phantom foes. By far the easiest set up for a ranged rogue.

I know this is a thread for a PotD Rogue, but on anything lower than that, I'm not sure the longer lasting/range debuffs are ever really worth it just for the Rogue.  And then, when you are using them, it's better to use a weapon with at least War Bow speed.


Edited by Sanctuary, 01 May 2015 - 01:59 PM.


#14
mahe4

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Regarding companions you definitely want a cipher in there for sneak attacks via phantom foes. By far the easiest set up for a ranged rogue.

really? after one hit, the flanked status disappears for me... not really worth it i think...



#15
Sanctuary

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That doesn't sound right.

 

edit: Actually, just did a quick test against a group of Phantoms/Shades.  It seems like they can lose the debuff after a teleport or maybe there's even a chance that there's a check to have it reapplied after the initial attack landed.  I did however have the debuff last the entire 28s on one of them, with the Rogue hitting it multiple times.  Didn't really check on non teleporters yet, but I used to use that ability often, and it seemed to last forever on most enemies.

 

The debuff in general isn't just for Rogues though.  It removes 10 deflection.


Edited by Sanctuary, 01 May 2015 - 02:28 PM.


#16
mahe4

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That doesn't sound right.

 

edit: Actually, just did a quick test against a group of Phantoms/Shades.  It seems like they can lose the debuff after a teleport or maybe there's even a chance that there's a check to have it reapplied after the initial attack landed.  I did however have the debuff last the entire 28s on one of them, with the Rogue hitting it multiple times.  Didn't really check on non teleporters yet, but I used to use that ability often, and it seemed to last forever on most enemies.

 

The debuff in general isn't just for Rogues though.  It removes 10 deflection.

oh ok... i think i noticed that disappearing behaviour on phantoms/shades/shadows, and then never tried to use it again...

thanks for the heads up!



#17
Atchod

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There are some nice points you guys made and some of the statements means you didnt read the OP oh well lets continue :

 

 

 

Dex speeds up animation and recovery.. does double duty basically.

What do you mean by this ? I dont think the increase for animation of shooting bow is relevant here as its miliseconds pretty much , also Do you mean that going 29~ dex 21~ Might is better than going 29~might 21 dex ? I think when rogue gets 20-30% crit from talents+race and another 15% from potion ( is it 15 or 10 for the pot dont remember ) stacking might would normally increase DPS more than stacking attack speed also considering that most of fights you are interested to 2 shot squishy targets more than have a sustained fast dps from high dex. 

 

 

 

plenty of sources for damage for rogue but no attack speed.

thats why i chose to stack might as you get plenty of attack speed with 21 Dex and no armor , and those damage sources for rogue scales with might equaling extra damage when you crit .Imo ranged rogue should focus on crits and making them bigger as much as possible. Why do you think going full Dex over full might is better ? Or do you mean to balance might and dex ? you could have like 25 each or so .

 

 

 

ggest choice rogue gotta make is weapon . Unfortunately at first I thought Borresaine was the easy winner until i found that the stun status that it gives on critical hit just freezes people in place with no additional effects. Its not the stun status that causes massive deflection penalties and trigger sneak attacks.

this is shocking , must be a bug ( no valid reason's for this to not be a bug ) maybe we could report it so it gets fixed with 1.05 ? I mean why have 2 different stun effects ? doesnt make sense to me . 

 

 

Island aumaua should also be strongly considered. Its Might bonus is valuable for a rogue, and with 3-4 weapon slots and quick switch, you can use 2-3 guns or arbalests for sneak attacks at maximum power while keeping a bow on hand for regular attacks.

Been there done that , i believe both Ranger and Cipher are way better for quick switch Builds and i had 2 playtroughs where i quick switch atleast 4 guns with 1 character , not going this on rogue tho i believe it might work very well , if i could bother with quickswitch this playtrough i would put it on GM anyways , i really enjoyed quickswitch gunslinging builds ( maxdamages all the way ) but i want something different this time , Warbow Crit Based rogue it is no quickswitch . I remember first week of release reading this forum people bashed a guy or two for saying quick switch is good build and now look at this QUICKSWITCH all over the place :D . 

 

 

 

I just use a fine War Bow until Cloudpiercer (which you can get relatively early).  Even though Jolting is only once per encounter, it still adds up to quite a bit over time, since it jumps targets.  I have never used Borresaine, and think the mods on it are pretty terrible.  Random stuns don't appeal to me either, especially if it messes up positioning for other classes.  I typically have at least one Wizard and one Cipher anyway, so CC isn't an issue.

 

Boressaine i dont know anymore ... seemed best choice but now when i hear reports of it being bugged ... not sure anymore , Also i remember it being quite reliable(in terms of stunning the target) on my hireling ranged rogue last playtrough , it proc's on crit but the proc chance isnt low i think and rogue crit's all the time , i want this build to be 1 crit 1 hit 1 crit 1hit 1 crit , something like that so geting stun proc isnt a problem , also i believe Jolting Touch proc's on crit aswell so its as random as the stun . I am gona have wizard for sure , and cipher most likely tho so its not about debuffs here but more about hard crowd control than anything when we talk about borressaine stun , also when i consider debuffs  i dont think about 1 debuff that gives sneak attack this is always gona happen in this team my rogue will always have all targets debuffed , but at some point in the game Deathblows come in to play then you want to have 2 debuffs running on every enemy . 

 

 

 

I also don't like the Hearth Orlan racial.  It's overrated compared to Distant Advantage, and I'm not even sure if it works at all if you aren't at least 5m close to the same teammate you're trying to gain the buff from.  That's how the Marking weapons work (which makes the mod mostly useless).  If you want to get the most out of the racial, you're stuck always standing close to another member and always forcing them to be hitting the same target. Otherwise, you're losing damage.  Plus, depending on the enemy, both of you hitting it might actually be too much damage and a waste there too.  Hearth Orlan seems much better for a melee Rogue.

Some valid points here if my rogue needs to stand close to someone attacking same enemy it might complicate things alot , are you sure it is the way it works tho ? or just speculations ? Also i am going to take advantage of marking weapon in a simple way , use Durance with Magran Focus(+8 arquebus accuracy )and stick him to my rogue in back line also extremely slow reloading speed is great because meanwhile you are reloading there is no recovery time to cast spells for a priest so you can react very well to situation while reloading . 

Some clarity about hearth orlan racial would be nice .

 

Also some general answers to discussion :

 

Int must be maxed , if you think otherwise find another thread to discuss it :) , no debuff lasts long enough on POTD unless its some squishy target and you want to keep them up and running always  .

I Dont really think you should play with more than 1 character on lower difficulties so lets not mention them here . 

Now i see that i want Weapon Focus and Marksman for Talents so that completes my talent build ( gona pass on interrupting blows , envenomed strike etc)

Resolve vs Perception Discussion :

 

( Would be nice if some1 tested Warbow+Max Perception + Interrupting Blows on 1.05 beta if its any good )

 

Only reason so far i see for resolve is maxing Will when you already maxed INT to decrease chance you get mind controled and slaughter your backline . Concentration is null for me , i am running glasscanon and spending a talent point for Shadowing Beyond means that every time rogue gets targeted by ranged spell you Shadowing Beyond , every time frontline breaks and enemy get trough i shadowing beyond , so why concentration ? i dont think i could use it at all .

 

Edit : Clearly Flanked dissapears after shades teleport that should happen ... please... ;D


Edited by Atchod, 01 May 2015 - 03:01 PM.


#18
Manty5

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And what, pray tell, are these debuffs that you're so keen on keeping up for a maxed int duration?

Rogue plays better when others are debuffing for him, because every class can debuff better than a rogue can.



#19
Atchod

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Get the **** away i am not feeding obvious troll



#20
Looms

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I would really like to know, why the hell you need so much Int on a ranged rogue... 2x cripling and deep wounds ?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Rogue, Marksman, Ranged, Character Build, Min/Max, Player Character, 1.05, POTD, Buffs, Discussion

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