Unnecessary features

[Aotrs Commander]

 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

I would just like to point out that many people (including me) requested this feature since this was an opinion in BG1, BG2, and Icewind Dale. 

 

 

And the implementation here is better than it's ever been. I think it's pretty much a critical game feature actually.

 

The bonus you get for having to make do with the default companion's... Inevitably poor mechanical builds (especially if like me you're on your first playthrough and started before they got tweaked) is benefits of the companion's dialogue and quests (more than good enough, in my opinion). Conversely, the price you pay for custom companions is... not getting that.

 

Now, there are not very many companions (actually one the smaller amountsd I can think of, bar perhaps PS:T), so the chances of someone coming across one or two they really don't like are higher. At least with this, you can ditch one you really hate (if for instance, I decided I was absolutely fed-up with Durance, I could go make a new priest).

 

And you really don't want to end up in the BG 2 situation where if you played Evil, there was only about three or four characters to choose from, since good and evil characters wouldn't stick around in the opposite alignments.

 

 

 

(It's also worth noting that I played through BG 1 about three times... And never once used anything other than a party of six of my own characters.)

[Nakia]

I love everything the OP feels should be removed.  I don't think the stronghold is crap but it could use some improvement.  As already posted the stash unlimited is optional.  Since I like crafting and enchanting I like having a place I stick any and all reuired ingredients.    I  think of it as a storage area.  The stash is only available to access when resting.  To me it is a kind of invisible donkey where I can stick things for later use or sale.

 

I love being able to make custom companions although I mainly travel with the scripted ones.  They are also handy to keep at the stronghold for those odd adventurers so I don't tie up a companion.

 

Camping supplies I think should be limited.  The devs have scattered camping supplies rather liberally.  I don't play on hard and the limit of two is probably a problem there.

 

Crafting and enchanting I love and just wish it was a wee bit easier to get ingredients and I would like to be able to enchant capes and helmets at least.  I know for balance there should be restriction but maybe just a little more chance to enchant would be possible.

[Ink Blot]

 

Camping supplies I think should be limited.  The devs have scattered camping supplies rather liberally.  I don't play on hard and the limit of two is probably a problem there.

Thing is, from my experience, it isn't. I think the restriction is pointless, actually, as it seemed to make no difference at all. From my experience, at least.

 

And yeah, if we're given the ability to enchant items, then I'd like to be able to enchant all wearable items.

[scrotiemcb]

Ironically, every single one of those except for the limited camping supplies was a Kickstarter stretch goal. Some people clearly wanted each of them and I don't think they are necessarily a bad thing, but the way they were implemented and their interaction with the rest of the game would certainly benefit from changes.

Okay, so let's imagine I'm a developer and I've thought of a mechanic which seems to be a "maybe" in terms of whether it's worthy of adding to the game. Should I

1. develop a mockup of the mechanic and put it through testing, always reserving the right to pull it if it doesn't fit, at any time up to the game's release, or

2. instead of making a decision myself, leave it to a swarm of overenthused laymen using a paid version of StrawPoll?

 

Putting non-essential mechanics on sale as Kickstarter stretch goals is completely unethical. Now if you want to offer stuff like upgrading voice acting by hiring well-known professionals (who cost more) or improve music by hiring a well-known composer (again, costs more), or a writer, or even something like the expected length of the game in hours (with an "at least" qualifier), those all seem fair game to me. Heck, if a developer can't afford to add a mechanic they KNOW would make the game better, that's fair game too. But if a developer can imagine their game without crafting in it, it almost certainly shouldn't have crafting in it.

 

I mean, I personally don't know if I agree with OP's list or not, but Kickstarter is a poor justification.

Edited April 28, 2015 by scrotiemcb

[Nakia]

 

 

Snip

I mean, I personally don't know if I agree with OP's list or not, but Kickstarter is a poor justification.

 

Not when you are trying to raise money and people have requested specific items.   Originally we requested a player's house but being perfectly normal game players we got greedy and wanted a stronghold.  Remember the majority of backers were gradates of the IE games.  IWD games are still popular.  My avatar and PDN come from a character I created in IWD II.  When the devs agreed to those two features I increased my pledge.    Moral of that - want more money give your backers what they want if at all possible.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Nakia

[Jasta11]

-Disagree on limited campaing supplies. I feel that it makes rest a meaningful mechanic, rather than something you need to stop yourself from doing after every single fight to keep the challenge up. 

 

-Disagree on custom companions. I use them sparingly, and they're a nice feature. Even nicer for people who want to Icewind Dale it and don,t care much for custom made companions.

 

-Agree on the Stronghold. It didn,t have its place in the game and felt like a tacked on stretch goal.

 

-Disagree on enchanting/crafting. The system just needs refining. Obsidian already did a good crafting system back in KOTOR 2, and they could also look to Dragon Age: Inquisition for a decent crafting system.

[Monte Carlo]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

 

Ah, game fascism. You-must-play-it-the-way-I-like-it.

 

Apart from camping supplies (which could easily be on an on / off toggle) I disagree with every single point. You don't *have* to take custom NPCs. The crafting mechanic is very easy to use and it isn't as if there isn't a surfeit of decent magic items.

 

Don't like the stronghold? Ignore it.

 

And so on, and so forth.

 

Edit - has it occurred to the OP that the story-tyme elements are secondary for many of us? I see it as the glue that leads me from adventure 'a' to 'b.' I know, heretical, eh?

 

The loredump aspect of PoE is something I could live without, but I don't for a moment think it 'should be removed.'

Edited April 28, 2015 by Monte Carlo

[Crucis]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

 

Limited camping supplies is absolutely the opposite of "Stupid beyond comprehension".  What was "Stupid beyond comprehension" was allowing people to rest after every frickin' battle in the old IE games.

 

Custom NPCs represent IMO, an attempt to merge the natures of BG1/2 and IWD1/2, where the former had pre-made NPCs, while the latter was 100% custom made parties.  As for devaluing the pre-made companions, perhaps to a degree.  But IMO, not including a Rogue for the party is just about as bad as not including a priest would have been.  Some may disagree, but my view is that a party without a rogue is an incomplete party in a dungeon crawl. 

 

Strongholds?  I'd have also been happy with something far simpler.  Perhaps your "stronghold" was really just a room in the HQ of the fact you eventually "chose", though frankly that might have come a bit late in the plot like.  A townhouse in Defiance Bay or a cottage in Dyrford Village would have sufficed as well.

 

As for Enchanting your own weapons, I happen to like this feature.  But a smith who did this instead would have been a reasonable alternative.  And actually, it'd make more sense insofar as the idea of being able to enchant weapons (and armor) while you're out in the field seems a bit far fetched.

[Crucis]

 

 

Strongholds are cool but POE's is crap and you can tell it's a consequence of ambitious KS stretch goals making them unable to scrap it. It should either be expanded / improved greatly, or removed.

In an interview Feargus Urquhart has said the stronghold is a "core thing of the game". It sounds like Obsidian plans on expanding it.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/pillars-of-eternity-tabletop-rpg-and-card-game-in-the-works/ <- source

 

"Now, in the future, we look at it as also a great place where we can, when we add content to the game, where we can sort of have these quests, new people can show up. If we have new features, new items and things like that, we can add aspects to the buildings, in which those buildings can do new things with items, so it's definitely a core thing of the game that we plan to grow as we continue to grow the game." <- relevant quote

 

Stronghold will hopefully get the love it deserves. It is still cool though even as it is, owning that place.

 

And in a sequel it could become a true base of operations, around which a whole village/community has sprouted.

 

 

Honestly, if there was a sequel, I'd rather that the PC (assuming that it's carried over) went somewhere else on the planet for the adventure.  I wouldn't fine having the sequel take play in the Dyrwood region nearly as interesting as if you had to travel elsewhere.

[Crucis]

 

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

 

Ah, game fascism. You-must-play-it-the-way-I-like-it.

 

Apart from camping supplies (which could easily be on an on / off toggle) I disagree with every single point. You don't *have* to take custom NPCs. The crafting mechanic is very easy to use and it isn't as if there isn't a surfeit of decent magic items.

 

Don't like the stronghold? Ignore it.

 

And so on, and so forth.

 

Edit - has it occurred to the OP that the story-tyme elements are secondary for many of us? I see it as the glue that leads me from adventure 'a' to 'b.' I know, heretical, eh?

 

The loredump aspect of PoE is something I could live without, but I don't for a moment think it 'should be removed.'

 

 

I'm not sure that you can completely ignore the stronghold.  I'm not sure, but if you choose not to accept lordship over caed nua, access to the Endless Paths may be blocked.  You also won't have access to the bounty missions.

 

I personally like the limited camping supplies, though only 2 for hard seems a tiny bit low.  3 might have been better, but whatever.

 

 

[Crucis]

 

 

Camping supplies I think should be limited.  The devs have scattered camping supplies rather liberally.  I don't play on hard and the limit of two is probably a problem there.

Thing is, from my experience, it isn't. I think the restriction is pointless, actually, as it seemed to make no difference at all. From my experience, at least.

 

And yeah, if we're given the ability to enchant items, then I'd like to be able to enchant all wearable items.

 

 

IMO, limited camping supplies makes a big difference, since it prevents constantly resting after each and every battle.  With limited supplies, you have to make careful decisions about how and when to stop, i.e. how much further can you go and stretch your party's health before you really need to stop and rest.  Frankly, if there's one gripe that I have with the entire resting thing, it's that it seems like you can rest almost anywhere, at any time, without the slightest risk of being attacked.  Personally, I wish that there was a risk of being attacked, though I suppose that if this was done, they might want to increase camping supplies by a little (assuming that if one's rest is interrupted, you lose the supplies expended).

 

As for enchanting stuff beyond armor and weapons, sounds good to me.

 

 

[Nakia]

You do not need to upgrade the stronghold other than to repair the Eastern Bastion which is free and immediate.  I am also fairly sure I could enter the Endless Paths before I upgraded the Main Keep.  I put off doing any upgrades for quite a while.  

[Awathorn]

It seems that "Just ignore it." is a magical answer for everything on this forum.

 

 

Never really had tough time with camping supplies, I did play with and without custom made companions, and I played with stronghold fully developed and totally ignored after taking it. 

 

 

And hence the tittle "Unnecessary features", not "OMG this sucks, I can't play, Obs I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!!!...!". Secondary stuff, ya know?

 

 

1) Resting. Very artificial solution. Why not implement danger level that would make resting impossible/costly in a room next to 20 bandits, but possible in the courtyard of your fancy stronghold or cleared level/part of dungeon?

 

 

2) Taking everything. This is hilarious in a game that brags about difficulty, tactics and strategy? Also, effect on world economy and prices? They are designed with that 200 suits of armor and 700 xaurip spears in mind. I understand, people are lazy, people want everything, but it is dumbing down to please the crowd. Same with ranged weapon ammo. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass, but it's a resource and a choice. Infinite whatever is bad. It leads to stupid games like DA2, for people who can't bother to press more than four buttons.  

 

3) Stronghold. Whatever you do with that damned thing it will still be an empty husk, unless the game is based around it. Also, from roleplaying point of view it makes 0 sense that you rule the most powerful fortress in the land. And as such, you and your band of merry misfits run around saving piglets, killing babies, doing little errands or all out massacres of people both important or not. 

 

Let's put it like this: In BG1 you are stranded with no money, nowhere to return and with a few friends. OK, you do different stuff gaining friends, money, equipment. Sounds fine? In PoE you have a stronghold, you carry 300 swords in your inventory, you have companions, hired guns, guards in your stronghold, talking chair, you've practically conquered another stronghold (so, that's two in one country), and still, you go saving kittens from the trees and nobody gives a single f...k about who or what you are. In reality you should almost be able to wage war with every in game settlement except DB.

 

4) Custom made companions. It's a nice idea. In IWD it was highly logical. But, PoE is supposed to have a strong story. And because devs need to give similar kind of experience even to those player who go with custom made companions, real companions seem detached from the story and just like an afterthought. That's it. Also, it's funny how you can hire a dude to go through hell with you for a price of a renting a room in a decent inn. 

 

5) Enchanting, crafting, whatever. Are you a smith? Nope. Do you have materials, tools, 20 years of training, ancient formulas or plans? Erm, nope. Powerful wizard, tower, books and all? Nope. So, why can average Joe, a trader from Aedyr, with some herbs and things, in the middle of nowhere, between killing wolves and xaurips, make a magical sword comparable to 9/10 "legendary" items found in the game? I have no idea. Well, people love their sandbox games, there's that. 

 

Also, if crafting and enchanting is so easy. Why doesn't every fool in the world do it? Bandits in the woods, sure, slaying kith. Firemen, clubs with freeze damage. Housewives, staffs with fire damage. 

 

Making potions, or oils witcher-style is OK. You gather herbs, you find recipes, or buy both, and you have a potion that makes you more lively for a short duration of time, or poisonous blade in one or two fights.

 

Things you find in deepest dungeon should matter. Sword pieces you collect from 15 levels of fighting should be epic! Same goes for stuff you buy for XXXXX gold from merchants. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Awathorn

[Luckmann]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

I disagree with the note on camping supplies, because they serve a very important function. I'd even go so far as to suggest that resting should be further restricted to safe areas, or otherwise carry a considerable chance of being attacked during sleep (guaranteed in dungeons, possible in the wilderness, and woken up by guards in cities).

 

The rest I can actually agree with, but mostly because they're very meh in PoE. I liked Amaranthine Keep in Dragon Age: Origins and I liked Crossroad Keep in NWN2. But Caed Nua is.. eh.

 

And the Enchanting system is lackluster and meh, and I only feel like it devalues itemization and makes everything just feel like different kinds of enchantments. You didn't find the Holy Avenger, you found a Greatsword with enchantments X, Y and Superb. The Crafting is completely useless, I haven't used it once, and I never saw the use. I may grow to use it a bit, but there's really not that much point, unless you're using scrolls like mad - but you don't have to, so why would you?

 

This is of course exacerbated by the fact that the ones to most likely invest in Lore, already have their own spells anyway, and even get to cast them Per-Encounter in mid-game.

 

Custom-made companions is something Igenerally agree with you on, but mostly because it serves as a cop-out to not add more CNPC:s ("hurr, you can make your own if it's not enough durrr"). At the end of the day, I see why it's there and I'm fine with it. Not really using it myself, but some people really like that aspect and it really doesn't hurt the gameplay in a meaningful capacity.

 

The most important point that you make is really the "Take everything"-issue. It really is an issue with some fairly big consequences, and the Unlimited Stash, the Infinigold merchants and the endless encumbrance all by themselves may seem like a good idea, but in practice it's worked out less than stellar. The Stash should've just been a limited-size shared party inventory, and everyone contributed to an encumbrance limit. Or something along those lines.

[Doug]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

 

Forums!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Things you find in deepest dungeon should matter. Sword pieces you collect from 15 levels of fighting should be epic! Same goes for stuff you buy for XXXXX gold from merchants. 

 

Not only that but you can craft one of the first weapons (Estoc) you get in the game and make it better than the epic item you get forged from the 15 level mega-dungeon. 

 

Here's two screen shots I just did with the weapon you pick up near the start of the game and after it's crafted. The game even says it's worth more than the forged weapon from the mega-dungeon. (credit goes to fellipepe from the Codex for picking up on this).

 

So the game allows you to craft an epic item that you can get at the beginning of the game that's better than having to fight your way through the mega-dungeon.

 

 

 

Estoc not enchanted

 

 

Estoc enchanted and the game is saying it's worth more than the Blade of the Endless Paths

 

 

 

 

[Raz415]

I'd like to see none of those removed. Instead, I want some of them expanded upon so they can be better. Also, whining about Take Everything simply makes you a pretentious douche, lol.

[LuccA]

Ironically, every single one of those except for the limited camping supplies was a Kickstarter stretch goal. Some people clearly wanted each of them and I don't think they are necessarily a bad thing, but the way they were implemented and their interaction with the rest of the game would certainly benefit from changes.

 

 

 

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

Almost everything you are complaining about was a stretch goal in the Kickstarter that people paid for, or a feature that was tweaked during the closed beta due to player feedback.

 

But judging by your language, you seem to have a problem with how others play games anyway.

 

You guys really think that because some stretch goal was reached, it was because people were craving for the specific feature? 

 

"New stretch goal: Stronghold??? Ow, finally! Now I can back the game! That's what I want in an cRPG, to take care of my fantasy mansion!"

 

When I backed the game, they had funded more than 2M and it doesn't mean I wanted crafting or hired adventurers really bad. For me, that was the down side of the project. Even the devs admitted that they had to rush to come up with new stretch goals sometimes. You shouldn't rush to come up with a feature that will permanently be in the game. Specially when it seems it is more due to building hype for the funding campaign than improving the game per se.

 

IMHO, we would be better of if there was just "Improving the game" as a stretch goal. So the devs could discuss the improvements after the funding was finished, maybe even doing some polls. I would easily trade a bland stronghold for more companions and more reactivity in the world (things I think are lacking). The stronghold could be added after with an add-on if too demanded.

 

 

Lots of people are complaining about how the game feels big in options and content, but overall bland and shallow. For me, this came from the kickstarter. They had too many stretch goals to worry about (besides the promess of a IE feel game), instead of focusing on more worthy things for an RPG.

Edited April 28, 2015 by LuccA

[b0rsuk]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

 

Running out of camping supplies is the game's way of telling you:  "You are too weak for this area. Come back later.". Most areas have camping supplies here and there, so I rarely buy them.  They also add a strategic factor to per-rest abilities. It's resource management. If all abilities were per encounter, every encounter would look very similar. But the way it works now, you can be out of level2 spells or level3 spells. Eder might be wounded so you send him back with a pistol, Kana holds the line. Durance is almost dead after an encounter with shades, you need to protect him at all costs. It would be a shame to rest right now if all your other characters have green health. So you develop a new tactic to deal with that.

 

Or you declare the game is stupid and you must rest after every encounter. The limit of camping supplies is higher on easier difficulties.

 

Custom companions are for people who strongly dislike some particular companions, or like to play around with an unusual party composition. If you are determined to play without spellcasters, you only have 2 companions in the first act. If you side with Durance, you may not want Eder in your party. Some people like to play with a full party of dwarves. They make their own stories.

Also, 3 of the game's classes are unavailable on companions. You'd have to play the game 3 times just to try them all out.

 

Pointless stronghold is the only thing I agree about.

 

Enchanting and the item system has many benefits. You can choose what type of weapon you'd like to fight with, there are no arguments that X or Y weapon skills are the best because you find such and such weapons. Imagine that you chose to train Spears in Baldur's Gate. Enjoy your +1 spear ! And even if developers DID place some good spears (some were placed in EE), you may only wander there in late game if there's open world. With enchanting system, you are no longer completely at mercy of developers. You can also modify magic weapons you find to better suit you.

Weapons broke all the time in medieval ages, and that was iron and steel, can you imagine wood ? In PoE weapons feel more disposable and I like it. Conan the Barbarian, in fantasy books, kept losing or breaking weapons all the time. They were just tools to him. Weapons in the game Rune are very disposable. You find many copies of them. You can throw them at enemies. Shields break after being hit a dozen times. Better that than to lose an arm.

 

When you enter Expedition Hall, Sagani says: "Mercenaries. All fancy weapons and no skill."

[ShadowStorm]

I'd like to see an optional inventory, with space, weight, encumbrance etc. While I can turn off the infinite stash thingy or ignore it, the standard inventory is too basic. 

 

I like the idea that I can't just vacuum up everything I find in a dungeon and also I've found that I have way, way too much money now and nothing to spend it on. 

 

I'm filthy rich already and I think a big part of it is the infinite stash. 

[Xosmi]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

 

None of these things you mentiones, besides the camping supplies actually take away from the game at all in my opinion. 

They're there - you can use them, or leave them.

 

Being able to carry all that gear and yet limiting the amount of times you can rest in the wild was done for completely diffrent reasons.

the stash is there because the gross majority of players really don't enjoy micromanaging their inventory and/or having to make multiple trips into a dungeon just to be able to haul the items out of there so they can be sold.

The camping supplies is to counter the well known resting abuse from the old IE games. you can trivialize even a triple crown solo challenge if the game would allow you to rest wherever, whenever - just rest after each encounter and boom, suddenly there's no challenge in the game at all.

If you really don't like the system, just use the Rest command in the console to rest as much as you'd like. the fact you can't get achievements once you do use console is something you'll have to live with. i personally feel unlimited resting is, if not cheating - very cheesy indeed.

 

Same thing for custom companions, you don't have to use them at all, just run with the game supplied ones if you want - at no point during the game are custom companions pushed onto you. The option to make custom companions is there however, for those people that like more variety in their parties, and is something that should increase replay value down the road - after the first few times you've taken the default 8 companions along on your journey, i can imagine most players wanting something different.

 

As for the stronghold ? Go there, find Maerwald so you at least own it and can open the way up to defiance bay, then just ignore it for the rest of the game if you hate it that much.

you don't have to explore the endless paths, same as you don't have to spend copper on upgrading it.

As for it not belonging in this kind of game - BG2 had strongholds, hell - it's one of the first games i know of that had player strongholds. Sure, it's basically become an RPG staple these days but there's no reason why pillars shouldn't have one. Some people like the gameplay element of having a place your PC can call their own that they can upgrade as they grow in level and prestige.

 

Same with enchanting, i feel they left it pretty bare-bones for this game. you can use it to marginally improve weapons you find, be they normal or already enchanted ones, but again- at no point is the option forced upon you. there's plenty of weapons available from enemies/loot/shops that already are enchanted, many of which come with mods on them you couldn't have enchanted on them in the first place. Enchanting in this game is more a tool to make your gear suit your needs, then an option to completely create your own awesome and overpowered weapons. I feel that the scope of the system is just right for PoE.

 

So yeah, i understand that these are things you don't enjoy, and that you may have wanted to see the effort put into creating them had gone into aspects that you do enjoy.

But simply because you don't enjoy them or didn't want to have them, doesn't mean no-one else does either. The consumer base of this game is bigger then you alone, and there's plenty of players among it that requested and wanted these additions to the game to warrant putting them in.

My advice would be to just take the game at face value for what it is, and not for what it's not. Skip the parts of the game that you don't enjoy if you have to, but have fun with the parts of the gameplay that you do enjoy.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Xosmi

[Vi.king]

What would you like to see removed in future PoE games?

 

For me it's:

 

- Limited camping supplies. Stupid beyond comprehension. Especially when you can carry like 80 suits of armor. Oh, another thing that needs to be removed. "Take everything" is just dumbing down to please modern gamers. 

 

- Custom made companions. Devalues real companions and makes them detached from the story. 

 

- Stronghold. Just forget about it. It belongs in different kind of games. Give us a room in the inn, a house in the city or something like that. Why does every game has to have a stronghold?

 

- Enchanting/crafting. Again, why does this has to be in every f...ing game? Stop being lazy devs and make interesting items. Creating high level merchant or smith who will do this kind of work if he is provided with unique material and lots of gold would make sooo much more sense. 

 

Instead of all this superficial stuff I would like to see more attention given to combat, items, dungeon design, encounter design, lore, story, npc depth, dialogue etc.

 

- Limiting camp supplies is a game mechanic so you can not rest spam after every fight.

- custom companions... just dont use custom companions?

- stronghold.. again nobody forces you to use the stronghold. actually the bonuses of the stronghold are so bad every inn buff is way better than any stronghold buff. the gold income from the stronghold is tiny

- Enchanting/crafting. Agree, the crafting system seems a bit odd. Either give it more depth (collectable recipes etc) or just drop it.

[Awathorn]

There it is again... "Skip it, ignore it". 

 

I'm enjoying the game, well, some parts of it, but that's not the point.

 

Point is - either do stuff well, or don't do it at all. Also, if you go for "the consumer base" - why not make another Bioware/whatever RPG with watered down RPG elements, open world, and tons of features from marrying elves and horses to redecorating you house an leading an army etc?

 

Unfair criticism from my side would be something like - "Oh, I don't like to use guns/swords/magic/dwarves/quests - remove it from the game." Now, that would be stupid.

 

If they give me a stronghold (btw, what a stupid way to gain stronghold...), it should work, it should have a huuuuuge impact on the game and on your position in that fantasy world. And I would be OK with that. You're building and "empire", you talk with the duc, you lead 50 armored soldiers into the Skaen temple. Fine.

 

They enable crafting/enchanting. Again, fine. But then it would be nice to have some tools, some locations, some material, some sketches, logical background. And that should be available to the rest of the world.  So, enchanted weapons are not rare, they are common. Right?

 

But that's not the case. And it drags this game down. Just like those cheap story moments like end of Act 2, PC infiltrating the secret organization the way he does, and few other I won't mention because of SPOILERS.

 

I really don't understand how are you guys OK with all that? We should be striving for a game that is excellent and different from other mainstream games today. Not the game that is mediocre and same like mentioned games (minus fancy graphics, cinematics and VO).

[Aotrs Commander]

I disagree with the note on camping supplies, because they serve a very important function. I'd even go so far as to suggest that resting should be further restricted to safe areas, or otherwise carry a considerable chance of being attacked during sleep (guaranteed in dungeons, possible in the wilderness, and woken up by guards in cities).

 

1) Resting. Very artificial solution. Why not implement danger level that would make resting impossible/costly in a room next to 20 bandits, but possible in the courtyard of your fancy stronghold or cleared level/part of dungeon?

 

 

 

The thing is, neither of those solutions ultimately change anything. All THAT does is force people to backtrack through three or four screens to find a safe place to rest (EXACTLY like people complaining they have to do when they don't have enough camping supplies) or save/load until they get a safe full rest. (Last time I played BG2 I used the fan ease of use mod, one option of which was to allow you rest anywhere just to avoid having to do this backtracking. Though in PoE, I'm playing on normal and it's a rare day when I even have to touch my camping supplies, and usually only have to rest when the party starts getting fatigued.)

 

Fiddling around with the rest system really only changes the goalposts - people who want to rest after every combat so they can spam the wizard spells (because it's not really the classes who don't have pre rest abilities as their priamry feature people complain about resting over, let's face it) WILL do so whatever you do, and the harder you make it, the more they will complain as they do that it's tedious busywork.

 

(Heck, people are complaining about resting existing at ALL because they can't spam their spells every fight.)

 

If you take out camping supplies, you are back to "rest as much as you like anywhere" or "essentially enforce people to backtrack several screens or save/load to rest."

 

And, of course, if you let everyone rest everywhere and spam their spells all the time... People will then complain the game is too easy (if you balance it for the people that don't) or too hard (if you balance it with the expectation every fight uses the resources of a full wizard party or something).

 

(Maybe in a world with unlimited resources that is how one should go about setting the difficulty level, in practise: you don't have levels, the game just adds monsters or whatnot depending on yor party composition...)

 

The short answer is, you can't win, whatever you do. If you give people unlimited resources, they will complain they have unlimited resources (because it is too easy or not realistic) and if you give them a limitation on their resources, they will complain you gave them a limitation on their resources (because it is too hard or they have to ration their resources).

Edited April 28, 2015 by Aotrs Commander

[Althernai]

You guys really think that because some stretch goal was reached, it was because people were craving for the specific feature?

Yes. You can look at the kickstarter funding progress and some of the stretch goals are correlated with a noticeable bump. I suspect it is more from people increasing their pledges than new backers, but the effect is still more money. Also, if you look at the Kickstarter comments, people were definitely asking for these things.

 

IMHO, we would be better of if there was just "Improving the game" as a stretch goal. So the devs could discuss the improvements after the funding was finished, maybe even doing some polls. I would easily trade a bland stronghold for more companions and more reactivity in the world (things I think are lacking). The stronghold could be added after with an add-on if too demanded.

 

Lots of people are complaining about how the game feels big in options and content, but overall bland and shallow. For me, this came from the kickstarter. They had too many stretch goals to worry about (besides the promess of a IE feel game), instead of focusing on more worthy things for an RPG.

This is obvious in retrospect, but Kickstarter was still new back then (I don't think any of the major projects had delivered a completed game) so people were still experimenting with stretch goals and the like. If you look at the most recent Kickstarters, they either have no stretch goals or have goals that are a lot more vague because people have realized that having features you simply can't cut is not a good idea no matter how great the feature sounds.