Kana verses Greiving Mother

[Aotrs Commander]

Fight!

 

Oh, wait, no, that's not what I meant at all...!

 

I have just reached Dyrwood and am about to recruit Grieving mother. I have left it rather late - since I did bascially the entire of Defiance Bay before moving afield. When I picked up Pallegina recently I realised that I ought to grab the last companiosn before I got much higher, so as to be able to not lose my choice of talents/skills so much. (My party is heavily invested in Stealth, for one thing.)

 

Problem is, I'm having a real job in trying to decide whether I should keep Kana (who has been with me since I picked him up) or replace him with GM.

 

I'm playing a cipher (and one rather better built), so I'd be replacing a chanter with a second one (albiet with a different build and powers aside from the important one (i.e. Mind Blades)

 

So, on the one hand, Kana is a fairly cheerful fellow (it's nice to see a smailing face) and I've had him now for most of the game to this point and I have a tendancy to get... attached to character once I've been playing with them a while (I find it harder to replace characters when later or "better" ones come along in RPGs generally - one of the reasons I liked the "party XP" thing from KotR onwards was I felt I could chop and change my party more.

On the other hand, chanters are... of moderate use. I've noticed he's slightly better when stripped down to robes instead of armour, but usually (probably because I'm on normal), usually the combat is over before he gets chance to do crack out his Class abilities. He shines rather more in boss fights (like against the first dragon I fought), where the longer battle means he has time to get at least one off... Ciphers are stupid-good, and I'm very tempted to add a second one (since she had a slightly different build to me... though yikes, those stats...) She actually has a better Stealth than Kana when recurited, so it means she's sort of viable. General opinion seems to be she's one of the better companions RP-wise and Kana is less so 9though I kinda like the guy.)

 

The other deal-breaker is I've heard you need to have her in your party for her quest like Durance. So the biggy here is whether this is time-based (as Durance sort of appeared to be, since he talked after rests quite a lot, though we seem to have stalled out on his quest for the moment - I presume it'll progress maybe in Act 3?) Or whether its quest-based, like the Stronghold turns. The former means I could leave her keep-bound and just grab her out to do her quests (as I will doubtless for the others) with some judicious rest-spam, the latter means I basically have to keep her permenantly.

 

Does anyone know what the mechanics for this is (as this will go a long way in convincing me which one to go for.)

 

 

 

Related, though more mechanics: why did they not have the personal stats for the characters save when they are removed? I like having those stats and if I hadn't only just realised that it didn't, I probably would have been more circumspect about not removing characters from the party once first recruited. It just seems a daft thing to not do - I never liked that it didn't in BG and onwards, and it's certainly not a technical limitation nowadays... (Esepcially if it's "time in party" that is the factor of Durance and/or GM's quests, as opposed to just after umpteen rests or something.) It's rather silly, I know, but it feels like I'm being mildly punished for not sticking with the same characters or for swapping them around.

[gkathellar]

Having a second cipher in the party is by no means a wasted slot, and I personally like GM, so I vote for her. Moar Avellone for the win.

 

 

Kana verses Grieving Mother

 

I see what you did there.

[Aotrs Commander]

 

Kana verses Grieving Mother

 

I see what you did there.

 

Now, you mention it, so do I.

 

And now I'm stick with the image of this being resolved via a rap-battle, in which Kana turns his turban on backwards and gestures with his arquebus held sideways. (Which he can do because he's a a freaking Aumaua.)

 

(Eder likely cheers them on, Sagani watches with polite bemusement (them Forieigners, eh?), Aloth just facepalms and Durance probably has some form of apoplexy. Win, win, then, really...)

 

 

 

That... image may be a strong point in Kana's favour, wanting to double-spam Mind Blades notwithstanding...

[Karkarov]

Kana is a joke of a party member compared to GM.  Ciphers are OP as holy hell and trust me when I say mind blades is a chump skill compared to abilities you get at higher level as a Cipher.  If you want to keep Kana for lore/story/I like him reasons that's cool do it.  If you are simply asking from a metagame who is the most useful stance?  Grieving Mother by a long shot.

[petrivanzyl]

How would GM win a rap battle if she remains silent?

[gkathellar]

How would GM win a rap battle if she remains silent?

 

Also nobody knowing she exists might pose a problem.

[dododad]

Kana all the way. Why even on potd you hardly need six party members, and having chanter already you must bring him for diversity's sake alone. Besides that he's perfect for sixth spot. He requires very little management, just let him stand at the side in some heavy armour and let him sing his songs while you micro the rest of the party.

[Aotrs Commander]

Hmm. After a bit more research and some thought... I am still no clearer.

 

Though I perhaps am better informed - I haven't been optimising Kana's chants very well, and apparently putting him in heavy armour DOESN'T increase his chanting speed. (Better optimisation of his chants might, though...)

 

I think I will take GM for a bit - at least make inroads into her quest (Kana's very near the top end of the party for XP anyway) and see how I go. Though if I run into any more dragons and the like, I suspect Kana's worth fetching!

[Svirfneblin]

I think the Durance and Grieving Mother quest progression are triggered by rests after completing segments of the main plot- not sure on this though.

[rheingold]

One thing that makes a massive difference with chanters is actively controlling/switching chants. Ideally you want only one quick chant up, when it rolls along to 2-3 switch to a slower more powerful chant. I'd definitely take kana though, I'm one of the few people who find ciphers really underwhelming, particularly in tough fights. Also chanters get insane high level chants, like the dragon wailed. Just make him a tank, put him in good armor, and he will work better than gm

[Karkarov]

One thing that makes a massive difference with chanters is actively controlling/switching chants. Ideally you want only one quick chant up, when it rolls along to 2-3 switch to a slower more powerful chant. I'd definitely take kana though, I'm one of the few people who find ciphers really underwhelming, particularly in tough fights. Also chanters get insane high level chants, like the dragon wailed. Just make him a tank, put him in good armor, and he will work better than gm

You say that yet someone on this forum has cleared the game with just a cipher on path of the damned.  Trust me, cipher is vastly more powerful than a chanter and starts at full power not 0 power gimme a minute to sing some songs.

[rheingold]

I really don't want to get into an argument. By all accounts people are soloing with chanters, ciphers and apparently even Paladins. Also my point is that Cipher is very powerful for most of the game, but compared to wizards/Druids they seem somewhat lightweight in the boss fights. Like a good ole warlock in fact. And chanters are pretty darn good.

[bonarbill]

I really don't want to get into an argument. By all accounts people are soloing with chanters, ciphers and apparently even Paladins. Also my point is that Cipher is very powerful for most of the game, but compared to wizards/Druids they seem somewhat lightweight in the boss fights. Like a good ole warlock in fact. And chanters are pretty darn good.

 

I don't find the chanter directly comparable to other casters anyway.  They feel more like fighter/marksman that uses their magic as support, like the Paladin.

[LadyCrimson]

If you are simply asking from a metagame who is the most useful stance?  Grieving Mother by a long shot.

Pretty much this.

 

I personally like the chanters as a 6th member in a full party (haste, buff, summons), but their actual "metagame" utility in a full party is somewhat sparse.

[rheingold]

I'm not arguing... They are support but very good support and if you already have a cipher in the party you are going to benefit from adding a chanter, heck or even a rogue. Also chanters are good, darn good in the tough fights.

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, outside of maybe having two fighters, I don't personally like to double-up on same classes most of the time, unless doing something quirky like "6 wizards!" I had Kana in the back using a gun and he almost never had to defend - enemies paid him no mind unless the rest of the party wiped first.

 

The benefits of the chants can be subtle but they can be better than I think some give credit for, especially in later game.

[rheingold]

Try "the dragon wailed" it's an insane chant. But you need a tank chanter to really benefit, it works better if you are right in the action. And the drakes and ogres are really cool.

[dododad]

Don't forget his spread damage spell. It deals massive damage to everyone around him in a start shaped aoe. It's fairly easy to kill your own party, but it's curious area effect shape offers use even in cramped situations if positioned right. There's also a nice little trick involving it and Withdraw spell since chanter continues to fill his spellpool while removed.

 

I really quite like chanter class. It offers a unique mechanic, but there is a problem with his spells. Spells at later levels are so much better that there is virtually no need to use weaker spell when you get better tier.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, in the short term, having a second cipher is horrendously effective! Being able to spam six or seven Mind Blades per encounter is rather nice!

 

I will definitely revist Kana later though - I intend at the very least to take him down into the Endless Paths (I even bought him the chanter amulet...!) Given XP is in plentiful supply, I think I am quite happy to let him sit for a bit until then.

[Thrasher91604]

Keeping mobs paralyzed while casters rain down destruction is quite a bit of fun.

[mystang89]

I'd personally keep GM. I liked her story better than kana and I believe she even gives a few dialogue options. That said I'm playing a chanter ATM so having 2 chanters was just.... Non sense Imo lol