Pistol or Blunderbuss for a ranged Rogue?

[Fessels]

As the topic title already show, I am not certain what would be better for a Ranged rogue. Both the Pistol and Blunderbuss have the same range ( according to what I was able to find out that is. ) But their damage is different.

 

The pistol has the higher damage, but that is only one bullet, and the blunderbuss seems to fire 6 bullets. Is the damage for the Blunderbuss per bullet or is it the total damage with all bullets together? ( Most likely a noob question, but I can live with that ... for now.  )

 

Another reason why I ask is because I reached Defiance Bay and on the way there I picked Weapon Focus: Ruffian. The second weapon set are two stilleto's ( One I bought in Gilded Vale. ) just for those moments that a melee fight can not be avoided. Since both a simple Pistol and Blunderbuss cost 1500 on the market in Defiance Bay I would like to know which of the two is more effective in the hands of a Rogue.

 

In case some one wants to know, my Rogue is a male Hearth Orlan with these attributes.

 

Mig: 17

Con: 10

Dex: 19

Per: 13

Int: 10

Res: 9

Edited April 25, 2015 by Fessels

[KDubya]

It depends on what you are shooting.

 

Low DR is better with the blunderbuss, High DR is better with the pistol.

[Luckmann]

 

As the topic title already show, I am not certain what would be better for a Ranged rogue. Both the Pistol and Blunderbuss have the same range ( according to what I was able to find out that is. ) But their damage is different.

 

The pistol has the higher damage, but that is only one bullet, and the blunderbuss seems to fire 6 bullets. Is the damage for the Blunderbuss per bullet or is it the total damage with all bullets together? ( Most likely a noob question, but I can live with that ... for now.  )

 

Another reason why I ask is because I reached Defiance Bay and on the way there I picked Weapon Focus: Ruffian. The second weapon set are two stilleto's ( One I bought in Gilded Vale. ) just for those moments that a melee fight can not be avoided. Since both a simple Pistol and Blunderbuss cost 1500 on the market in Defiance Bay I would like to know which of the two is more effective in the hands of a Rogue.

 

In case some one wants to know, my Rogue is a male Hearh Orlan with these attributes.

 

Mig: 17

Con: 10

Dex: 19

Per: 13

Int: 10

Res: 9

 

 

First, KDubya is correct. It will depend a bit on what you're facing, and other aspects to your character as you grow. Generally, I would personally favour the Pistol, but if you get Penetrating Shot, Blunderbuss will probably win out. There's a Blunderbuss called Lead Spitter in the game that, with Penetrating Shot, will absolutely shred through the enemy Damage Thresholds.

 

But second, more importantly, for that note on your Stiletto backups, Pillars of Eternity does not have any penalty for shooting in melee, for some daft and utterly bizarre reason. So you will likely never be in a situation where you'll need to switch over to another weapon set.

 

So my suggestion would be to carry both a Pistol and a Blunderbuss. Either to initiate with the Pistol for Backstabs and then switch to the Blunderbuss, or to initiate with the Blunderbuss (when not backstabbing) and then quickly switching to the Pistol.

 

Or just taking two Blunderbusses (Blunderbi?) or two Pistols, and switch between them to get quick shots off at the start of combat. Switching rapidly between firearms works great in PoE, and without penalty to shooting while engaged in melee, there's no reason not to.

[Eos]

Depends on the Damage Reduction of your targets. Blunderbuss has to punch through your target's Damage Reduction six times, Pistol only once. If you play on Hard or Path of the Damned, go with the pistol because every mob has a lot of Damage Reduction. If you play on Normal or Easy, you'll want the Pistol for the tougher enemies, the Blunderbuss for the softer targets.

 

And if you go Blunderbuss, you want the Penetrating Shot talent, as its effect is basically applied six times for the Blunderbuss while still only getting the attack speed malus once.

[Eos]

But second, more importantly, for that note on your Stiletto backups, Pillars of Eternity does not have any penalty for shooting in melee, for some daft and utterly bizarre reason. So you will likely never be in a situation where you'll need to switch over to another weapon set.

 

 

It does in a way. The Wood Elf racial and the talent Marksman don't work in melee and seeing how most melee weapons are good at interrupting while most ranged weapons are vulnerable to interrupts, there is a sort of built-in drawback to having a gun in your hand when someones flails at you violently in close range

[Luckmann]

 

But second, more importantly, for that note on your Stiletto backups, Pillars of Eternity does not have any penalty for shooting in melee, for some daft and utterly bizarre reason. So you will likely never be in a situation where you'll need to switch over to another weapon set.

 

 

It does in a way. The Wood Elf racial and the talent Marksman don't work in melee and seeing how most melee weapons are good at interrupting while most ranged weapons are vulnerable to interrupts, there is a sort of built-in drawback to having a gun in your hand when someones flails at you violently in close range

 

 

Removing a conditional bonus is not the same thing as imposing a penalty. The conditionals imposed to Woodie racials and the Marksman Talent are balancing factors, not circumstantial penalties. Also, this still means that there is no difference between shooting someone at point-blank range and to get out your melee weapons. Once engaged, you have lost those bonuses, anyway (and, indeed, did so as soon as the opponent was within 4 metres) and you gain nothing by switching to melee weapons - which was the point I was making.

 

If you are specialized for ranged combat, the idea that you will switch to melee weapons for added Interrupt appears positively pathetic, judging by trade-offs. Interrupts are rare and ****ty, either way, and it won't make a difference to you in the end. Then you might as well switch to an Arbalest instead and it's 0,75 sec Interrupt, if that's what you're after.

 

[...]

 

And if you go Blunderbuss, you want the Penetrating Shot talent, as its effect is basically applied six times for the Blunderbuss while still only getting the attack speed malus once.

He'll want Penetrating Shot either way, but I agree that it's more important for Blunderbi than for Pistols.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Khalid the bear]

when something gets in theface of ranged rogue there is shadowing behind talent that turns you invisible and enables you to move avay

a for The Wood Elf racial and the talent Marksman trade of is accuracy ws double damage from backstab which only works from 2 m

[Luckmann]

when something gets in theface of ranged rogue there is shadowing behind talent that turns you invisible and enables you to move avay

a for The Wood Elf racial and the talent Marksman trade of is accuracy ws double damage from backstab which only works from 2 m

Good point, actually. A ranged rogue probably shouldn't even be a wood elf or take Marksman.

 

Well, depending on what one wants to do, anyway.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Khalid the bear]

i went with acc, higher chance to crit, and 2 m is a bit to close for my taste

[Eos]

 

 

[...]

 

And if you go Blunderbuss, you want the Penetrating Shot talent, as its effect is basically applied six times for the Blunderbuss while still only getting the attack speed malus once.

He'll want Penetrating Shot either way, but I agree that it's more important for Blunderbi than for Pistols.

 

 

For a Pistol? Not sure if you're right about that one.. 5 more damage vs. 20% less attack speed. Your rogue would need to hit like a limp noodle (i.e. for 25 damage or less on average) for it to be worth the trade off. Ar least in that range (haven't bothered to read into the whole attack speed, reload speed, recovery speed discussion). My Rogues on PotD on level 9 hit for 40-50 damage per attack making Penetrating Shot is very much not worth it

 

 

when something gets in theface of ranged rogue there is shadowing behind talent that turns you invisible and enables you to move avay

a for The Wood Elf racial and the talent Marksman trade of is accuracy ws double damage from backstab which only works from 2 m

Good point, actually. A ranged rogue probably shouldn't even be a wood elf or take Marksman.

 

Well, depending on what one wants to do, anyway.

 

 

Again.. what? :D

 

Your ranged Rogue shouldn't be a Wood Elf or have Marksman? Should he also not wield a ranged weapon and engage enemies in.. you know.. melee? What in the world would you give your ranged physical DPS class if not (ranged) accuracy bonuses?

[Zenicetus]

But second, more importantly, for that note on your Stiletto backups, Pillars of Eternity does not have any penalty for shooting in melee, for some daft and utterly bizarre reason. So you will likely never be in a situation where you'll need to switch over to another weapon set.

 

I agree with the other post -- a ranged Rogue needs a second set of weapons if it unintentionally gets into melee, for a chance of interrupts during the fight. You'll take a lot of damage while standing there reloading a firearm, and some of that damage might be interrupted with a different weapon hitting more often. It's always painful seeing any of my party members trying to reload a firearm while getting whacked in melee, and doubly so for a Rogue since they should be in very light armor.

 

On the pistol vs. blunderbuss choice, by the time I got into the last third of the game, I was finding so many unique pistols and blunderbusses that I was mainly choosing based on the enchantment effects. Still, pistols probably do better in the latter part of the game due to the starting DR advantage.

[Luckmann]

For a Pistol? Not sure if you're right about that one.. 5 more damage vs. 20% less attack speed. Your rogue would need to hit like a limp noodle (i.e. for 25 damage or less on average) for it to be worth the trade off. Ar least in that range (haven't bothered to read into the whole attack speed, reload speed, recovery speed discussion). My Rogues on PotD on level 9 hit for 40-50 damage per attack making Penetrating Shot is very much not worth it

Penetrating Shot is worth it for practically anything. It is more important for Blunderbi because of the 5 Pen per shrapnel, but it is by no means a lightweight for any other weapon.

 

Again.. what? :D

 

Your ranged Rogue shouldn't be a Wood Elf or have Marksman? Should he also not wield a ranged weapon and engage enemies in.. you know.. melee? What in the world would you give your ranged physical DPS class if not (ranged) accuracy bonuses?

Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be, it could've been changed) you only get Backstabs/Sneak Attacks at close range. The WElf Racial and Marksman only applies to 4m and beyond. What would I take? Hearth Orlan's Minor Threat comes to mind as a good alternative to the WElf's Distant Advantage, and not taking Marksman gives you the chance to pick up Bloody Slaughter or Arms Bearer; maybe even Quick Switch.

 

 

 

But second, more importantly, for that note on your Stiletto backups, Pillars of Eternity does not have any penalty for shooting in melee, for some daft and utterly bizarre reason. So you will likely never be in a situation where you'll need to switch over to another weapon set.

 

I agree with the other post -- a ranged Rogue needs a second set of weapons if it unintentionally gets into melee, for a chance of interrupts during the fight. You'll take a lot of damage while standing there reloading a firearm, and some of that damage might be interrupted with a different weapon hitting more often. It's always painful seeing any of my party members trying to reload a firearm while getting whacked in melee, and doubly so for a Rogue since they should be in very light armor.

 

On the pistol vs. blunderbuss choice, by the time I got into the last third of the game, I was finding so many unique pistols and blunderbusses that I was mainly choosing based on the enchantment effects. Still, pistols probably do better in the latter part of the game due to the starting DR advantage.

 

 

It makes extremely little difference. You won't be able to really do any meaningful Interrupt. You are far, far, far better off just switching to your secondary firearm and shooting them in the face. Yes, it's painful, but "muh intrupts" is simply not a meaningful advantage. Remember, we're not talking about a melee-specialized rogue vs. a ranged-specialized rogue, here, we're talking about a ranged-specialized rogue vs. not-a-single-supporting-talent-for-melee rogue.

 

There's simply no contest. Unload those firearms in their faces. If you feel you don't need it, don't unload your extra weapon slots until the enemy is in melee; save them for when someone does, and shoot them three times between the eyes.

 

And again, if it's the Interrupt you're after, Arbalests. And before you say it, yes, they're slow, but find me a fast high-interrupt weapon.

 

...actually, Clubs should've had extra Interrupt chance and time as their special, not Accuracy 1...

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Khalid the bear]

 

Still, pistols probably do better in the latter part of the game due to the starting DR advantage.

 

and pistols have only-5 acc, while blunderbuss has -10

[Khalid the bear]

Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be, it could've been changed) you only get Backstabs/Sneak Attacks at close range. The WElf Racial and Marksman only applies to 4m and beyond. What would I take? Hearth Orlan's Minor Threat comes to mind as a good alternative to the WElf's Distant Advantage, and not taking Marksman gives you the chance to pick up Bloody Slaughter or Arms Bearer; maybe even Quick Switch.

sneakattack has no range limit. onlybackstab does (and i think its 2m or so)

[Fessels]

But second, more importantly, for that note on your Stiletto backups, Pillars of Eternity does not have any penalty for shooting in melee, for some daft and utterly bizarre reason. So you will likely never be in a situation where you'll need to switch over to another weapon set.

 

So my suggestion would be to carry both a Pistol and a Blunderbuss. Either to initiate with the Pistol for Backstabs and then switch to the Blunderbuss, or to initiate with the Blunderbuss (when not backstabbing) and then quickly switching to the Pistol.

 

Or just taking two Blunderbusses (Blunderbi?) or two Pistols, and switch between them to get quick shots off at the start of combat. Switching rapidly between firearms works great in PoE, and without penalty to shooting while engaged in melee, there's no reason not to.

 

 

Yeah I could eventually pick both, but because of the reload time ( Even after I pick Gunner. ) I am some what concerned with the damage my Rogue will get till the shot is ready. Still I will keep it in mind for later levels, or when I find a really good Blunderbuss.

 

 

 

This is the reason why I have two stilleto's in the second weapon set at the moment.

 

 

when something gets in theface of ranged rogue there is shadowing behind talent that turns you invisible and enables you to move avay

a for The Wood Elf racial and the talent Marksman trade of is accuracy ws double damage from backstab which only works from 2 m

 

Thank you I will make a note on that.

 

 

 

On the pistol vs. blunderbuss choice, by the time I got into the last third of the game, I was finding so many unique pistols and blunderbusses that I was mainly choosing based on the enchantment effects. Still, pistols probably do better in the latter part of the game due to the starting DR advantage.

 

That is exactly why I have two stileto's in the second set. As for the last part, I will just have to wait and see.

 

But I will go with a Pistol for now then.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Fessels

[Luckmann]

 

Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be, it could've been changed) you only get Backstabs/Sneak Attacks at close range. The WElf Racial and Marksman only applies to 4m and beyond. What would I take? Hearth Orlan's Minor Threat comes to mind as a good alternative to the WElf's Distant Advantage, and not taking Marksman gives you the chance to pick up Bloody Slaughter or Arms Bearer; maybe even Quick Switch.

sneakattack has no range limit. onlybackstab does (and i think its 2m or so)

 

 

That's an odd inconsistency.. but fair enough, a good point.

 

This is the reason why I have two stilleto's in the second weapon set at the moment.

What is? Only reason I've seen to have a second melee weapon so far is interrupt, and that's a really terrible reason, because there's no drawback to shooting in melee (mind you, I think there should be; from a thematic point of view, I would prefer it if you "had" to switch to melee when engaged).

 

Stilettos have a Interrupt time of 0.35, so.. yeah.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Luckmann]

Edit: Double-post.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[Kaigen42]

The drawback to shooting in melee is that you could be doing so much more damage with melee weapons. A ranged focus rogue, even with the Gunner talent and not having Two Weapon Style, can still get in four or five sabre attacks dual-wielding in the time it takes them to recover, reload, and shoot their pistol again. Even without any melee boosting talents or abilities, you're still going to out damage the rogue who stands there shooting in point blank range. The fact that you might be able to slow down your enemy's attacks through interrupts is just a side benefit (incidentally, the lower interrupt rating of fast weapons is almost perfectly compensated for by their increased attack speed).

Edited April 24, 2015 by Kaigen42

[Fessels]

 

 

Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be, it could've been changed) you only get Backstabs/Sneak Attacks at close range. The WElf Racial and Marksman only applies to 4m and beyond. What would I take? Hearth Orlan's Minor Threat comes to mind as a good alternative to the WElf's Distant Advantage, and not taking Marksman gives you the chance to pick up Bloody Slaughter or Arms Bearer; maybe even Quick Switch.

sneakattack has no range limit. onlybackstab does (and i think its 2m or so)

 

 

That's an odd inconsistency.. but fair enough, a good point.

 

This is the reason why I have two stilleto's in the second weapon set at the moment.

What is? Only reason I've seen to have a second melee weapon so far is interrupt, and that's a really terrible reason, because there's no drawback to shooting in melee (mind you, I think there should be; from a thematic point of view, I would prefer it if you "had" to switch to melee when engaged).

 

Stilettos have a Interrupt time of 0.35, so.. yeah.

 

 

Because of the reloading time, if two or more enemies are two close to my rogue then he would take to much damage during reloading? At the next level I will pick Gunner if I can so I have no idea yet how that changes things. As for the choice of stilleto's ... I realize those are weak compared to Sabre's. The choice of using Stilleto's ( One of them being that one with that spell-strike ability from Gilded vale. ) so far has more to do with the fact that I like the Jolting spell-strike from one of the stilleto's. And it is not set that I will stick with stilleto's, so if I find a nice sabre or two then I will more then likely switch to those. ( If I can get myself to let go of that particular spell-strike ability stilleto. )

[Crucis]

Pistol vs Blunderbuss?  Neither.  Arquabus or Arbalest.  Why?  Greater range means that if you manage things correctly, you can take the first shot of a battle (which should automatically be a sneak attack) from BEHIND your primary tank, thus causing the enemy to attack him and not your rogue.  Also, I'd go for high single shot damage so that your sneak attacks (and regular attacks) only have to pen the target's DR once, rather than multiple times as the blunderbuss does (I think).

 

Of course, after you've fired your opening shot, you're facing a long reload.  But if you're carefully micromanaging your spellcasters to create the afflictions which all for easy sneak attack opportunities, you should have such a shot fairly often.  OTOH, if you're willing to carry a couple of ranged weapons, one thing to consider is maybe having your second ranged weapons fire faster than a "very slow" one, whether that's a warbow or plain ol' crossbow or whatever, just to keep up a higher rate of fire.  Of course, rate of fire is a trade off between high damage and ability to punch thru DR, vs a faster rate of fire and ability to pour in damage more quickly, and change targets more quickly.  OTOOH, you could carry a second arquabus and get a second shot fairly quickly, but then you're starting with that long reload cycle.

 

There are a lot of permutations here, and a lot to think about.

[Crucis]

The drawback to shooting in melee is that you could be doing so much more damage with melee weapons. A ranged focus rogue, even with the Gunner talent and not having Two Weapon Style, can still get in four or five sabre attacks dual-wielding in the time it takes them to recover, reload, and shoot their pistol again. Even without any melee boosting talents or abilities, you're still going to out damage the rogue who stands there shooting in point blank range. The fact that you might be able to slow down your enemy's attacks through interrupts is just a side benefit (incidentally, the lower interrupt rating of fast weapons is almost perfectly compensated for by their increased attack speed).

 

Or you could use a second, faster firing ranged weapon for after you've fired your slow loader.  That way you could keep up a high rate of fire.

[Luckmann]

Already suggested that. I'd even go so far as to say that if you fear enemies getting into melee, just save those extra weapon slots for unloading three shots in a row into someone. I have no idea who'd survive that.

[Fessels]

Pistol vs Blunderbuss?  Neither.  Arquabus or Arbalest.  Why?  Greater range means that if you manage things correctly, you can take the first shot of a battle (which should automatically be a sneak attack) from BEHIND your primary tank, thus causing the enemy to attack him and not your rogue.  Also, I'd go for high single shot damage so that your sneak attacks (and regular attacks) only have to pen the target's DR once, rather than multiple times as the blunderbuss does (I think).

 

Yeah but as I mentioned I picked Weapon Focus: Ruffian not Soldier. Even if I try and see if I can change that through IE Mod then I would only have two plus points from that weapon focus. Ruffian is completely useful for a Rogue, ( In my opinion that is. ) while Soldier would only make Arbalest and Arquebus useful for my Hearth Orlan Rogue. Again this is just my personal opinion, so it may not be yours or others.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Fessels

[Kaigen42]

Or you could use a second, faster firing ranged weapon for after you've fired your slow loader.  That way you could keep up a high rate of fire.

 

Even a Hunting Bow fires slower than you can swing a pair of sabers. Ranged weapons aren't designed to deal as much damage as melee weapons; that's the price you pay for attacking with relative safety. And the thing about the ranged rogue is that, with the exception of Penetrating Shot, anything you get that makes your ranged weapons more damaging also makes your melee attacks more damaging, and anything else that exclusively applies to your ranged attacks either doesn't work in melee range (Marksman) or only tries to make them less slow (Gunner)

 

Already suggested that. I'd even go so far as to say that if you fear enemies getting into melee, just save those extra weapon slots for unloading three shots in a row into someone. I have no idea who'd survive that.

 

If you're willing to make the investment to get three or four weapon slots, maybe, but on PotD difficulty I don't see two shots, even from a Rogue, being a reliable way to put down someone who gets into melee with you.

[Crucis]

 

Pistol vs Blunderbuss?  Neither.  Arquabus or Arbalest.  Why?  Greater range means that if you manage things correctly, you can take the first shot of a battle (which should automatically be a sneak attack) from BEHIND your primary tank, thus causing the enemy to attack him and not your rogue.  Also, I'd go for high single shot damage so that your sneak attacks (and regular attacks) only have to pen the target's DR once, rather than multiple times as the blunderbuss does (I think).

 

Yeah but as I mentioned I picked Weapon Focus: Ruffian not Soldier. Even if I try and see if I can change that through IE Mod then I would only have two plus points from that weapon focus. Ruffian is completely useful for a Rogue, ( In my opinion that is. ) while Soldier would only make Arbalest and Arquebus useful for my Hearth Orlan Rogue. Again this is just my personal opinion, so it may not be yours or others.

 

 

Sorry, I only read the first paragraph of your post.

 

I don't want to be buttonholed into any single WF set with a rogue.  It's not too big a deal for melee characters as their choices aren't usually too constricting.  But with ranged specialists like ranged rogues and rangers, getting stuck with single WF set forces you to either stick with that WF set's choices or you ignore that oh-so-nice +6 accuracy bonus to use weapons outside of the WF set.

 

Honestly, I haven't picked a WF for my rogue for this reason.  It's let me switch from having her use a crossbow to an arquabus, to considering using a warbow as a secondary ranged weapon without having to feel the pain of losing a +6 WF set bonus for doing so.

 

This is a reason why I said in another thread that I'm growing to dislike the existing WF groups as currently constituted.