Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Blarghagh]

Continued from here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73293-journalism-and-bias-in-the-gaming-industry/page-37

 

For the uninitiated: The 'Gamergate' controversy was sparked in early 2013, as the release of Zoe Quinn's "Depression Quest" was criticized from gamers who believed that the game had received a suspicious amount of attention in relation to it's quality and scope. Eron Gjoni (Zoe's ex boyfriend) wrote a blogpost accusing Quinn of having had an affair with Kotaku journalist Grayson, prompting the critics to conclude that the attention and success of "Depression Quest" was due in part to unfair bias and nepotism in the industry.

 

Several articles from both sides of the issue has highlighted inconsistencies in the stories of both Grayson, Quinn and Eron as well as the many other examples that have followed.

 

Gamergate is wideley seen in the public, as a culture war over the diversification of gaming, artistic recognition and social criticism of video games and the gamer social identity.

 

For the posters in this thread:

Many bloggers and populists have tried to steer the discussion into areas they feel are the underlying issue - ranging from simple bias, to widespread misogny or misandry. I would however prefer that we keep this discussion as objective and clean as possible and so I will be keeping an a extra close eye on this thread. This certainly does not mean that you may not discuss any issue you feel, but rather that you should be thoughtful of  how  you discuss it with those you disagree with.

 

Especially in regards to these three guidelines:

 

Discrimination: Obsidian has a zero-tolerance policy with regard to racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks.

Harassment: We ask that the users of this board treat one another with respect, even when opinions differ. Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated. In addition, Obsidian does not tolerate disrespectful and/or slanderous posts about its competitors, developers and publishers. Such posts will be subject to editing or deleting, with its posters censured or banned.

 

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Any posts in violation of the Forum Guidelines will either be removed or modified and authors of such posts will receive warnings and/or have their content placed under moderated review.

 

PLEASE CHECK YOUR IMAGES FOR PROFANITY. IF THE IMAGE CONTAINS UNCENSORED PROFANITY THAT THE BOARD WOULD NORMALLY CENSOR, WE WILL REMOVE YOUR ENTIRE POST.

[Meshugger]

Big letters trigger me, please remove as you otherwise deny the legitimacy of my horrible experiences.

 

Partly related: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167187101

 

 

 

So in order for me to enroll in the classes i already paid for this semester, my university is forcing me to take a 3.5 hour online course on feminism. The classes i need are almost filled up and the school locked/put a hold on my registration until i take this online class

 

On-topic: Pakman is looking for more GamerGate-material: https://archive.is/rJhwd

[Meshugger]

Zizek about political correctness:

 

 

Despite being a marxist, he's a total bro btw:

 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Meshugger

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Zizek about political correctness:

 

 

Despite being a marxist, he's a total bro btw:

 

As a transmarxist anarchistkin I find "despite being a marxist" offensive. Check your class, bourglord.

[Meshugger]

I shall reduce myself to self-criticism which would make Mao proud. Now, let the healing begin.....

 

 

 

Apparently Pakman has invited Leigh Alexander, Full McIntosh and Based mom for interviews. Only Based mom has shown interest.

[HoonDing]

Slavic Gérard Depardieu.

[Oerwinde]

Pakman is great because he doesn't let his biases get in the way of the hard questions. Doesn't go easy on the people he likely agrees with, which is good journalism.

[Namutree]

I just watched a video called, "Stormfront or Social Justice" which is pretty funny. 

 

Not linking it as it's too offensive.

[Volourn]

Let us be the judge of that.

[Namutree]

Let us be the judge of that.

I'm worried about moderators. I'm just tryin' to follow Obsidian's rules. It's easy enough to find on youtube if you really want to see it. 

[Longknife]

Zizek about political correctness:

 

 

 

I'm both familiar with this guy and his philosophies and I'm subscribed to that channel. Love both.

 

 

I also agree with what he's saying. I believe that simplified, he's merely trying to say jokes can be as offensive as possible so long as you're laughing with the target, not at them. This is something I've thought about myself because I'm very passionate about comedy and I came to the same conclusion.

 

Years ago I had to attend German courses when I first came to the country, and the thing was, everyone was rather reserved and quiet. Who wouldn't be? It's a new country with a new language, and classes with people from around the world and cultures you're unfamiliar with. I recognized that silence would "kill us," something my teacher later acknowledged; there was a time he pulled me aside and told me that often with language courses, the success of the students can live or die based on how outgoing and willing to converse the students are, and that I was a huge relief for the teachers to have because I was singlehandedly encouraging more socialization.

   Something I did was I just absolutely played the fool. I'd already learned from past experienced that....if you ever find yourself in another country where you don't speak the language? Three words are universal amongst the world: Sex, f***k, and chocolate. The accent on these words may vary, but everyone understands them, and I think this says a LOT about people on the whole. I'd had scenarios where I met russians and Ukrainians and the like and we communicated just by receiving assignments in class, and then when there was a picture to accompany the text? We'd modify it with as much obscene stuff as we could. None of this was a result of me having a particular passion for obscene humor or the like (typically I find it weak), it was simply something we could use to make a connection despite the language barrier.

   So in that class I had, I racially profiled everyone. I mocked EVERYONE. The japanese girl? I'd imitate her and do the overly polite bows she seemed to do as an impulse. I'd purposefully go through her **** knowing full well she comes from a culture that's too polite to tell me "yo that's my stuff wtf man?" I'd purposefully stop when we were walking together knowing that women often walk slightly behind men in Japan, and I'd do it just to mess with her. The Russian girl? I'd tell her I was a secret agent and a spy, and I knew damned well she was with the KGB. I'd mock how she would say "hippo" as though it were "hyippo" and marvel at the weird words with 20 constanants rammed together that she was capable of saying. I purposefully swore as much as I could around her because she said in Russia swearing was very bad, and I was intent on getting her to adopt my swearing habit over time. I totally won and succeeded. My Colombian friend? Always asked him for cocaine, and I mocked my Nepalese and Indian friends inabilities to talk to girls.

 

  Despite all of this, I was the most popular guy in those classes, because I did ALL of that with a friendly smirk on my face. I meant no offense, I merely wanted to share a laugh while mocking the little quirks we all had because of our cultures. I was just as ready to claim that as an American, I had no blood in my veins but rather Coca Cola, and that due to my German side, I must have a stick so far up my ass that all fun is forbidden in my presence.

 

 

My point with all of this is this:

 

You cannot and will not change that, stereotyping for example, while capable of being hurtful, will not go away. The Goth and emo kids in high school who proclaimed "LABELS R FOR SOUP CANS!!!" Guess what Goth Kids, every sociology teacher ever will claim without a moment's hesitation that you're trying to fit into a group and a label too, and they're right. Take a look at little kids. The hottest girl I knew in my high school life had a wonderful and humorous personality she developed from....being made fun of when she was younger. Why? Because her mother has black hair and her father was blonde. She had natural blonde highlights, and little kids in elementary school called her a skunk for it. It was attractive, and yet it got mocked. And why? Because humans learn by recognizing patterns. We stereotype by nature, and little kids are a great example of this, as they'll mock anything that's unordinary, even if it's actually a good thing.

 

    You cannot change that hurtful things will be said and that people will be hurt. Trying to do so just results in the kind of authoritarian attitudes we've seen. Tell me, is it ok to condemn a racist person who has always had the sense to respect the very people he's racist against to the degree he doesn't act on those impulses? Is it justice to treat him poorly for this? My friend from Nepal was actually blatantly racist, to the point where he would point out EVERY black person we encountered and ask "what's that black guy doing there?" He's buying food Suren. At the grocery store. Like us? Despite how obvious it was, we all considered him a good friend, including the girl with the black boyfriend, because he was absolutely harmless. Racist, absolutely, but harmless.

 

  So what can you do? You can acknowledge the world's faults and ugly side and you can face it head on together, and you can manipulate a depressing stereotype or truth and turn it into a funny and entertaining truth. You laugh at it together, and you make your brash comments with a warm, welcoming smile on your face.

 

 

  I offended multiple people during my time in German schooling, and in the end? I charmed the pants off every single one of them. They found it unbelievably bold and brash, but also irresistably charming. I like to think that what they recognized over time was my intent, and that my intentions were actually very good and I wanted to make a mockery out of all potential problems that we might face.

 

 

Do I think things would've been better if we instead pretended things weren't awkward between the Israeli girl and the Lebanon guy, if I hadn't brashly said "HEY DUN UR COUNTRIES LIKE HATE EACH OTHER LOL?" when they first met? **** no, it would've gotten worse.

 

Do I think things would've been better if we expressed to the Nepalese guy that he needs to shutup about black people and tried to encourage the Kenyan girl not to interact with him instead of just telling her "btw he's racist against you but dun worry it's hilarious?" No, it just would've been awkward.

 

Do I think things would've been better if we never acknowledged to the Brazilians that they weren't the most intelligent people on earth and just silently kept that info to ourselves and passively discriminated with it? No wtf we told them one day and they agreed and explained why that was the case, and everyone left the room having learned something and understanding each other better.

 

 

 

 

 

To sum it up/tl;dr:

 

 

I've long had a simple philosophy that ideas are immortal, and that for example, even if tomorrow we were to erase all traces of communism and kill everyone who held a good opinion of communism, it is an inevitability that it would be found again or that someone new would re-discover it on their own. The moment an idea is had, it's with this world forever. Hitler's most racist views for example will never truly die, and we can't change that. That's sad of course, but should we solve it by trying to pretend they don't exist? No. Should we just avoid difficult subjects? Avoiding difficult topics and subjects will not stop their immortality, and at worst it'll leave us so ignorant of their mechanisms that we could fall prey to them ourselves.

  So what do we do? We confront those ideas in the most fun way possible: we laugh them off, together.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm just going to say that Zizek and Chomsky are two of my favorite writers and speakers. I'd also recommend Michael Parenti to some of you. He's left like those two and he had a really good speech about identity politics being a bad idea from sometime in the 90's(all you had to do was listen).

 

Anyways the slate for Pakman is Based Mom, Mercedes Carrera, Vox Day, and Liana K.

[Meshugger]

I'm just going to say that Zizek and Chomsky are two of my favorite writers and speakers. I'd also recommend Michael Parenti to some of you. He's left like those two and he had a really good speech about identity politics being a bad idea from sometime in the 90's(all you had to do was listen).

 

Anyways the slate for Pakman is Based Mom, Mercedes Carrera, Vox Day, and Liana K.

 

This guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale

 

What's he got to do with GG?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I'm just going to say that Zizek and Chomsky are two of my favorite writers and speakers. I'd also recommend Michael Parenti to some of you. He's left like those two and he had a really good speech about identity politics being a bad idea from sometime in the 90's(all you had to do was listen).

 

Anyways the slate for Pakman is Based Mom, Mercedes Carrera, Vox Day, and Liana K.

 

This guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale

 

What's he got to do with GG?

 

Rabid puppies and he supports gg. Never heard of him before.

[ravenshrike]

 

I'm just going to say that Zizek and Chomsky are two of my favorite writers and speakers. I'd also recommend Michael Parenti to some of you. He's left like those two and he had a really good speech about identity politics being a bad idea from sometime in the 90's(all you had to do was listen).

 

Anyways the slate for Pakman is Based Mom, Mercedes Carrera, Vox Day, and Liana K.

 

This guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale

 

What's he got to do with GG?

 

SJWs hate him. The man holds opinions that are anathema to them and he is VERY good at prodding as well as saying things that he knows his opponents will misconstrue. Basically an ****, but a very honest ****.

[Meshugger]

Oh, i then have a feeling that the interview with Vox will be the most entertaining one.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Meshugger

[Blarghagh]

Ugh, the one thing I hate more than GG opponents pretending it's all about conservatives vs progressives is when the conservatives buy into it and co-opt it for free publicity. Vox Day? Really? In this case it's a case of SJW hate being justified because he is a reprehensible bastard. Even they get it right some of the time. That guy being pro-GG sounds like "giving SJWs free ammo" to me.

[ravenshrike]

Ugh, the one thing I hate more than GG opponents pretending it's all about conservatives vs progressives is when the conservatives buy into it and co-opt it for free publicity. Vox Day? Really? In this case it's a case of SJW hate being justified because he is a reprehensible bastard. Even they get it right some of the time. That guy being pro-GG sounds like "giving SJWs free ammo" to me.

Sorry, but you're going to need to fully source both quotes and context before calling him a reprehensible bastard. Mainly because the vast majority of stuff floating around about him is quite different within context.

[Blarghagh]

What, like his view that Europe is already dead because women have more rights here and his assertions that women have it worse now because they are no longer required to be stay-at-home moms? His defense against being called racist being referring to a black author as " we recognize she is human, but not fully civilized" and a referring to people like her being "savages attacking white people"? I've read his 'writing' and taking him out of context often makes him look better.

 

I'm not going to source them for you, especially because you tell me that I have to to. He is a reprehensible bastard and I do not nor will I ever owe you anything. He is allowed his opinions, and in return I am allowed to think he is one of the world's most massive ****.

[Meshugger]

What, like his view that Europe is already dead because women have more rights here and his assertions that women have it worse now because they are no longer required to be stay-at-home moms? His defense against being called racist being referring to a black author as " we recognize she is human, but not fully civilized" and a referring to people like her being "savages attacking white people"? I've read his 'writing' and taking him out of context often makes him look better.

 

I'm not going to source them for you, especially because you tell me that I have to to. He is a reprehensible bastard and I do not nor will I ever owe you anything. He is allowed his opinions, and in return I am allowed to think he is one of the world's most massive ****.

 

...and how this cannot be translated into an hilariously entertaining interview is beyond me. Get your popcorn already!

 

Who cares about PR anyway, GG is KKK, ISIS and every other hate group combined in the eyes of mainstream media.

[BruceVC]

 

What, like his view that Europe is already dead because women have more rights here and his assertions that women have it worse now because they are no longer required to be stay-at-home moms? His defense against being called racist being referring to a black author as " we recognize she is human, but not fully civilized" and a referring to people like her being "savages attacking white people"? I've read his 'writing' and taking him out of context often makes him look better.

 

I'm not going to source them for you, especially because you tell me that I have to to. He is a reprehensible bastard and I do not nor will I ever owe you anything. He is allowed his opinions, and in return I am allowed to think he is one of the world's most massive ****.

 

...and how this cannot be translated into an hilariously entertaining interview is beyond me. Get your popcorn already!

 

Who cares about PR anyway, GG is KKK, ISIS and every other hate group combined in the eyes of mainstream media.

 

Nonetheless it would be great to see you distance yourself from Vox Day, its never to soon to start changing that perception that some in the media has about GG and its supporters ?

[Blarghagh]

As if distancing would help. People would just throw "no true scotsman" at it.

[Meshugger]

Exactly.

[Blarghagh]

There's a lot of humor to be found in the comparison. Both sides insist that the death threats to Quinn or the #KillAllMen feminists do not represent their side while insisting they represent the other side - the entire debate has become an excercise in hypocrisy.

[BruceVC]

As if distancing would help. People would just throw "no true scotsman" at it.

 

I'm not sure if that's valid

 

One of the issues with this discussion around GG is that there are extremists on both sides who effectively prevent meaningful dialogue on both sides

 

For example the views of radical feminists I reject but yet people use the views of radical feminists as a reason to dismiss various SJ movements

 

So when you have a member on these forums saying things like " Vox Day isn't really a bad person and his comments need context " you just would think this would be unequivocally rejected, yet the response seems to be " he is actually quite funny..you should watch him " 

 

So I am suggesting more a mindset change around certain people and discussions. Its not letting the side down to criticize something unacceptable. People shouldn't hide behind a label and think they can say what they want, like that women who claims to be a feminist and said  " men play games to suppress rape urges " 

 

I don't care what she says she is those comments are not acceptable