Abilities & various other (damage related) mechanics revealed

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So, I've been doing some more testing.

What happens if you take the Wildstrike talent and wear the Wildstrike belt (which, per its description, grants Wildstrike Burn)?

The talent adds 30% elemental damage to your attacks. The belt tops that with an additional 10% of the same elemental kind (if you have Wildstrike Burn, the belt will make you deal 10% more burn damage; if you have Wildstrike Corrode, the belt will make you deal 10% more corrode damage; and so forth.)

The way it is calculated is 30% of your non elemental damage (Wildstrike) + 10% of your non-elemental damage (Wildstrike Belt.) For example:

17.1 Slash

30% corrode = 5.13

10% corrode = 1.71

Total corrode (before DR) = 6.84

DR = 14 * 0.25 = 3.5

6.84 - 3.5 = 3.34 corrode damage dealt

(Unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot of this.)

In theory, the same should happen with Greater Wildstrike (which gives you 45% elemental damage) except if I apply the same logic, I don't get the actual number I see in-game.

This was done with Greater Wildstrike Corrode + Wildstrike Belt.

My math based on the example with Wildstrike:

20.7 * 45% = 9.315

20.7 * 10% = 2.07

Total corrode (before DR) = 11.385

11.385 - 14 * 0.25 = 7.885

which is clearly too much.

If I take the Wildstrike Belt's 10% out of the equation, however:

20.7 * 45% = 9.315 - 14 * 0.25 = 5.815

which is too little.

Any insights?

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

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[20.7 * (0.3 + 0.1) - 14 * 0.25 ] + [20.7 * (0.15 + 0.1) -14*0.25] = 6.455

greater wildstrike adds a separate 15% lash (Same as with intense flames)  .. So is 30% lash vs 25%  DR + 15% lash vs 25% DR .. The belt ups both lashes by 10%  so  30% to 45% and 15% to 25% and you end up with 45% lash vs 25% DR + second lash 25% vs 25% DR ..

Edited by peddroelm
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• 1 year later...

... current game version 3.04 much of the above tests results thus obsolete....

did a quick test to clarify primary elemental type of damage weapons and elemental perks for the damage formula.

Scion of Flame will add 20% additive damage bonus to Firebrand burning sword and multiplicative 1.2 to burn lashes. (was expecting/hoping to be multiplicative for weapon damage. Very likely the bonus to spell damage is also additive .. )

Presumably spirit of decay will add 20% additive damage bonus to Bittercup sabre (slightly weakened by the sabre nerf ) ..

test numbers:

30-30 firebrand test  listed 63-63   30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 +0.3) = 63
30% might
15% 2handed
20% savage attack modal
45% damage 3
50% annih on crit
20% sworn enemy situational
scion of flame 20% for burn weapon and for burn lash
50% FOD burn lash

30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 +0.3) = 63

60 damage graze
30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.2 - 0.5) = 60 // bonus is additive

105 crit
30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 1) = 105

////

54 graze (no more sworn enemy)
30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 - 0.5) = 54

// savage attack turned off
30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2) = 63 //  63 BONUS IS ADDITIVE

//FOD crit
93.0 -DR:4.0 = 89.0 burn + 54.8 burn

30 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.2 + 1) = 93
93 * 0.5 * 1.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 54.8
Edited by peddroelm
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Not a proper test yet still it looks promising. (BTW I took a look at some DOT abilities .. WS, RWS, wounding propriety on weapon, deep wounds ..  they seem to work properly in 3.04 ..)

Combo Runner's Wounding Shot with stealth SneakAttack + Backstab on rogue.

(the 80% RAW damage of RWS is calculated of DamageafterDR multiplied again with might mod).  It might seem MightMod doesn't do much for rogue damage output in comparison with the rest of the damage bonuses they can get, but if you wanna mess with any kind of DOT effect ( RWS, deepwounds, envenomed strike, etc ..)  that get multiplied by the MightMod again you stand to lose tons of damage without high MightMod ..

Combat log example with "white" pistol. (but the potential is visible)

(RWS)   (Crit) 95.3 - (DR:7.0-6.0) = 94.3 pierce damage (crit/sneak/backstab).

target Hobbled (for further deathblows)

+ 84.5 RAW damage   //  94.3 * 0.8 * 1.12 = 84.4928

RWS won't get SA or backstab bonus from shadowing beyond invisibility, you can also use RWS without  invisibility/stealth/backstab and it works kind of decent with SA + deathblows but it takes time to do its work and the target might die before the DOT gets applied.

Second combat log example with lashed annihilating Dulcanale pistol and 20 Might:

(RWS)   (Crit) 120.6 - (DR:7.0-9.0) = 120.6 pierce damage (crit/sneak/backstab) + 29.3 corrode

target Hobbled (for further deathblows)

+ 125.5 RAW damage   //  120.6 * 0.8 * 1.3 = 125.424

total damage: 120.6 +  29.3 +  125.5 = 275.4

I do intend to re-test the rogue damage abilities with constant damage weapon so I'll update this at some point ..

Edited by peddroelm
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Actually with Runner's Wounding Shots and also wounding weapons it's best if you have low INT. The amount of this very special DoT will be the same, but it will get applied more quickly. Higher INT only takes the exact same damage and spreads it over a longer timespan. So if you fear that the DoT of RWS takes too long you just have to dump INT. But this will screw your overall damage of Envenomed Strikes and also your Deep Wounds damage - because those profit from high INT.

Edited by Boeroer

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I will (hopefully) get all those abilities (and others) under the microscope soon ( combat log for DOT abilities with timestamps )   (I have guests over this weekend ...) .

Edited by peddroelm

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• 2 weeks later...

game version up to 3.05 beta

Tested  Aegis of Loyalty  (minimum damage with negative damage mod vs charmed/dominated/confused friendlies ) .

Has -0.9 damage modifier AND uses MIN BDR (NO RNG roll) . Great ability for reverse engineering damage mechanics but only works for paladin. (perhaps can be added via console to all classes for testing purposes?)

Test numbers

11 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5 - 0.9) = 17.71 // 17.71 in log (crit with exceptional axe)

14 * (1 + 0.18 - 0.5 - 0.9) = - 3.08   // -3.1 in log ( white 2h graze)

11 * (1 + 0.18 + 0.15 - 0.9) = 4.73 // 4.7 in log (fine sword )

Edited by peddroelm

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10 DEX Rogue with heavy plate, two weapon fighting.

unforgiven speed small flail & sabre

queued blinding strike//crippling strike & autoattack.

time 0 Damage : 18.279  // blinding strike sabre hit (off hand first)

Timediff:     0.952 Damage : 30.216  // blinding strike flail hit

Timediff:     1.487 Damage : 17.188  // crippling strike sabre hit (off hand first)

Timediff:     1.002 Damage : 22.770  // crippling strike flail hit

Timediff:     1.416 Damage : 17.201  // autoattack flail hit (main hand first)

Timediff:     1.491 Damage : 7.988   // autoattack sabre hit

Timediff:     2.405 Damage : 25.275  // autoattack flail

Timediff:     1.512 Damage : 25.739  // autoattack flail

Timediff:     2.341 Damage : 14.501  //

Timediff:     1.503 Damage : 16.123  //

total time between first blinding hit and until the "landing" of both hits for first auto attack

0.952 + 1.487 + 1.002 + 1.416 + 1.491 = 6.348

sabre & unforgiven speed small flail

queued blinding strike//crippling strike & autoattack.

time 0 Damage : 20.599  // blinding strike flail hit (off hand first)

Timediff:     0.855 Damage : 21.367  // blinding strike sabre hit

Timediff:     2.270 Damage : 24.950  // crippling strike flail hit (off hand first)

Timediff:     0.871 Damage : 32.495  // crippling strike sabre hit

Timediff:     2.403 Damage : 28.057  // autoattack sabre hit (mainhand first)

Timediff:     2.339 Damage : 17.256  // autoattack flail hit

Timediff:     1.479 Damage : 16.017  // keep autoattacking

Timediff:     2.350 Damage : 17.351

Timediff:     1.494 Damage : 19.978

Timediff:     2.335 Damage : 11.872

Timediff:     1.474 Damage : 20.122

total time between first blinding hit and until the "landing" of both hits for first auto attack

0.855 + 2.27 + 0.871 + 2.403 + 2.339 = 8.738

A bit of the catch is time 0 is NOT at the beginning of the blinding strike attack animation, but at the point the damage was inflicted (few fractions of a second error).

At the end of the full attack ability the full recovery of the main hand is applied so it benefits to have the faster weapon in the main hand.

The real mistery happens in between the two hits.

(Sabre recovery + portions of sabre and flail attack) shorter than (Flail recovery + portions of flail and sabre attack.)

Calculated speed flail recovery on above rogue 0.6666 . Calculated sabre recovery duration on above rogue is 1.3333.

Either the recovery between the 2 hits of a full attack ability is completely removed or receives a hefty discount.

((1 * 0.55) + ((2 / 3) * 0.45)) + 0.11 = 0.96

((1 * 0.45) + ((2 / 3) * 0.55)) + 0.11 = 0.92666

((2 / 3) * (0.5 + 0.5 - 0.2 - 0.2)) / 0.6 = 0.6666

(0.5 + 0.5 - 0.2) / 0.6 = 1.3333

TLDR; Full Attack abilities used with different speed weapons will complete faster with the faster weapon in the main hand.

Second test. 10 Dex Noble fighter with armored grace plate with rapier and mace, dual weapons and vulnerable attack on.

Rapier + Mace knockdown + autoattack

time 0 Damage : 30.121  // mace knockdown

Timediff:     0.948 Damage : 5.511  // rapier knock down

Timediff:     1.579 Damage : 6.085   // autoattack rapier

Timediff:     1.662 Damage : 14.711  // autoattack mace

Timediff:     2.301 Damage : 3.434   // more autoattack

Timediff:     1.679 Damage : 18.019

total time between first knockdown hit and until the "landing" of both hits for first auto attack

0.948 + 1.579 + 1.662 = 4.189

mace + rapier knockdown + autoattack

time 0              Damage : 6.436  // rapier knock

Timediff:     0.841 Damage : 24.906 // mace knock

Timediff:     2.398 Damage : 24.913 // mace autoattack

Timediff:     2.297 Damage : 4.876  // rapier autoattack

Timediff:     1.749 Damage : 9.516

Timediff:     2.286 Damage : 3.137

total time between first knockdown hit and until the "landing" of both hits for first auto attack

0.841 + 2.398 + 2.297 = 5.536

calculated autoattack cycle duration (mace + rapier swing)

1+0.11+ (0.5 + 0.5 - 0.2 - 0.2 + 0.2)/0.6 + 19/30 + 0.11 + 19/30*(0.5+0.5-0.2-0.2 + 0.2)/0.6 = 4.031111 (~ the measured autoattack data)

Same fighter but with double mace.

Timediff:   time 0  Damage : 27.659

Timediff:     1.087 Damage : 20.233

Timediff:     2.433 Damage : 20.108

Timediff:     2.394 Damage : 11.557

Timediff:     2.436 Damage : 24.680

Timediff:     2.458 Damage : 17.268

Timediff:     2.372 Damage : 25.506

Timediff:     2.434 Damage : 26.900

Very Strong indicator that the recovery between the attacks is eliminated.

In the previous cases we (probably) have ~45 + ~55% of average and fast weapon attack animations. Total as expected under 1 second at 10 dex.

(1 * 0.55) + ((19 / 30) * 0.45) + 0.11 = 0.945

(1 * 0.45) + ((19 / 30) * 0.55) + 0.11 = 0.9083

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TLDR; Full Attack abilities used with different speed weapons will complete faster with the faster weapon in the main hand.

Confirming. If you perform a full-attack (such like Barbaric Blow) you will first attack with your offhand (this attack will have zero recovery). Then it will be followed by main-hand swing (and this attack already has recovery).
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Fist / Sabre TR unload 10 dex plate & vulnerable armor

time 0               Damage : 26.159  sabre
Timediff:     0.854  Damage : 19.496  fist
Timediff:     2.275  Damage : 15.176  sabre
Timediff:     0.835  Damage : 28.087  fist
Timediff:     2.263  Damage : 18.035  sabre
Timediff:     0.836  Damage : 16.342  fist
Timediff:     2.275  Damage : 33.406  sabre
Timediff:     0.830  Damage : 20.491  fist
Timediff:     2.273  Damage : 40.256  sabre
Timediff:     0.838  Damage : 30.824  fist

Switching weapons : sabre/dagger
time0                Damage : 7.180   dagger
Timediff:     0.833  Damage : 26.796  sabre
Timediff:     2.273  Damage : 11.622  dagger
Timediff:     0.844  Damage : 16.684  sabre
Timediff:     2.273  Damage : 23.378  dagger
Timediff:     0.826  Damage : 29.941  sabre
Timediff:     2.252  Damage : 18.367  dagger
Timediff:     0.846  Damage : 22.652  sabre
Timediff:     2.261  Damage : 21.139  dagger
Timediff:     0.845  Damage : 18.681  sabre

swich again this time with dagger/sabre
time 0               Damage : 30.655  sabre
Timediff:     0.837  Damage : 25.238  dagger
Timediff:     2.265  Damage : 42.863  sabre
Timediff:     0.837  Damage : 9.210  dagger
Timediff:     2.275  Damage : 27.838  sabre
Timediff:     0.830  Damage : 16.409  dagger
Timediff:     2.259  Damage : 44.802  sabre
Timediff:     0.834  Damage : 8.085  dagger

Torment Reach full attacks behave differently from the above. It still waives recovery between attacks but the final recovery is still fast even with the slower weapon in the main hand. This makes me curious to try 2 slow weapons.

double spears

time 0                    Damage : 32.617
Timediff:     0.846  Damage : 16.614
Timediff:     2.265  Damage : 27.540
Timediff:     0.835  Damage : 29.820
Timediff:     2.266  Damage : 15.735
Timediff:     0.837  Damage : 20.062
Timediff:     2.258  Damage : 32.565
Timediff:     0.839  Damage : 24.647
Timediff:     2.271  Damage : 15.248
Timediff:     0.838  Damage : 11.498

Double spear. Same torment's reach "unload speed".  Will try double fist next.

Dual fist
time 0                    Damage : 21.800
Timediff:     0.839  Damage : 38.249
Timediff:     2.288  Damage : 27.231
Timediff:     1.021  Damage : 36.639
Timediff:     2.271  Damage : 28.428
Timediff:     0.833  Damage : 19.421
Timediff:     2.269  Damage : 33.678
Timediff:     0.851  Damage : 29.064
Timediff:     2.255  Damage : 17.523
Timediff:     0.830  Damage : 20.342
Double fist - same torment's reach unload speed...

dropped the plate and turned off vulnerable attack.
time0                     Damage : 17.840
Timediff:     0.843  Damage : 20.738
Timediff:     1.099  Damage : 19.844
Timediff:     0.827  Damage : 12.360
Timediff:     1.110  Damage : 26.172
Timediff:     0.831  Damage : 17.858
Timediff:     1.114  Damage : 13.976
Timediff:     0.830  Damage : 22.789
Timediff:     1.099  Damage : 32.809
Timediff:     0.851  Damage : 20.158

dropped the plate and turned off vulnerable attack. Finally it speed up.

Throw in a potion of DoaM for good measure.. (no recovery)

time 0                    Damage : 29.952
Timediff:     0.843  Damage : 20.681
Timediff:     0.692  Damage : 21.747
Timediff:     0.840  Damage : 27.008
Timediff:     1.362  Damage : 14.770
Timediff:     0.853  Damage : 20.788
Timediff:     1.205  Damage : 21.615
Timediff:     0.839  Damage : 26.754
Timediff:     1.262  Damage : 19.562
Timediff:     0.843  Damage : 15.144

Here I probably couldn't click fast enough (can't queue multiple torment reaches in POE ..)

Edited by peddroelm
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Why? Does shift + click in order to create queues not work with Torment's Reach?

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Why? Does shift + click in order to create queues not work with Torment's Reach?

never worked when I attempted it. One use per ability in invisible queue (obsidian masterminds). Works

Edited by peddroelm

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Ranger companion stats progression .

Takedown ability helps since it shows damage range. (with 10 might and no bonus from abilities it will show "rounded" base damage range)

Wolf stats with 13-19 base damage. Others 11-17.  Pierce/slash damage type.

9 DR and 5 DR penetration. Bear starts with 11 DR.

at levels 4,7,10,13 & 16 the base damage gets successively multiplied by 1.2. At those levels they get 2 extra DR (3 with resilient companion perk), and +5 Accuracy that SADLY DOESN'T APPLY to special ability hit-checks (takedown vs fortitude).

Wolf base damage table.

13-19 lvl 1,2,3

13*1.2 - 19*1.2 lvl 4,5,6

13*1.2*1.2 - 19*1.2*1.2 lvl 7,8,9

13*1.2*1.2*1.2 - 19*1.2*1.2*1.2 lvl 10,11,12

13*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2 - 19*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2 lvl 13,14,15

13*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2-19*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2*1.2 lvl 16   32.348 - 47.278

Abilities damage mods will work of this ever increasing damage range. And at the end multiply with lashes such as Marked Prey and Chanter burn aura.

Wolf has damage output since his extra +2 to the initial damage range gets repeatedly multiplied and also has one of the fastest attack speeds.

wolf Accuracy formula. 30 base + 5 perception + 3*(Lvl-1) + 5* [Lvl-1)/3]

At level 16 that is 30 + 5 + 45 + 25 = 105.

Takedown hitchecks at level 16 .

105 + 16 (level) =121 damage vs deflection.

(105-25) + 16(level) = 96 prone vs fortitude.

Might still be useful for the  +1*Lvl ACC abilities get to improve chances of a hard hitting hit/crit.

Wolf starts with 36 endurance and gains +12 per level ending up at 216 at lvl 16. (bear ends with 238)

Lvl 16 DR 19 without resilient and 27 with resilient companion.

Resting bonuses apply to companions. You can speed their attack rate a bit via rest DEX buffing.

Edited by peddroelm
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into the fray base damage level scaling
5,6,7 22-30
8,9,10 22*1.15-30*1.15
11,12,13 22*1.15*1.15-30*1.15*1.15
14,15,16 22*1.15*1.15*1.15-30*1.15*1.15*1.15

clear out base damage level scaling
7,8,9 30-40
10,11,12 30*1.15-40*1.15
13,14,15 30*1.15*1.15-40*1.15*1.15
16 30*1.15*1.15*1.15-40*1.15*1.15*1.15

The long Pain level scaling (~*1.15 per step but not quite)
summons dual ranged fists. (12m)  (crush damage type)

BDR 16-24   +8 ACC lvl 7,8,9
BDR 18-27  +12 ACC lvl 10,11,12
BDR 21-31  +16 ACC lvl 13,14,15
BDR 24-36  +20 ACC lvl 16

//

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retested wildstrike. works the same

(46.6 * (0.3 + 0.1) * 1.2) + (46.6 * (0.15 + 0.1) * 1.2) = 36.348

Took a look at druid shapeshifting scaling

cat dual weapons. 33% attack speed per rest flurry.

so with daom potion or two weapon fighting + cat flurry 0 recovery.

5 DR pen.

16-25  0 ACC 8 DR.  Lvl 1,2,3

16*1.15-25*1.15 +4 ACC 10 DR Lvl 4,5,6

16*1.15*1.15-25*1.15*1.15 +8 ACC 12 DR Lvl 7,8,9

16*1.15*1.15*1.15-25*1.15*1.15*1.15 +12 ACC 14 DR Lvl 10,11,12

16*1.15*1.15*1.15*1.15-25*1.15*1.15*1.15*1.15 +16 ACC 16 DR Lvl 13,14,15

16*1.15*1.15*1.15*1.15*1.15-25*1.15*1.15*1.15*1.15*1.15 +20ACC 18 DR Lvl 16  32.181715 - 50.28392

Savage attack works with druid melee and so does apprentice SA. At 0 Recovery those things attack extremely fast (fist/dagger speed) and hit like nuclear trucks if you bother messing a bit with wildstrike and some more damage perks.  Problem (less than before) is still accuracy (survival rest ACC vs enemy type extra help) and the limited duration of the transformation.

Chanter's burn lash damage aura alone would add gazillions of damage .  These things have the potential to output MASSIVE amounts of damage in a short time.  Can hardly wait to get DPS comparator app going (its going to be a while but I'm getting closer)

Stag does pierce damage type and has +7 Resist all. Attacks slower than the cat. (as per MAXQuest's table) . Carnage has decent area but again 1 per rest.

Boar does pierce damage type and attack slower than the cat. ALWAYS on DAMAGE_BEFORE_DR *0.2 as RAW damage (wounding weapons). He should be very good vs dragons with proper accuracy boost.

Wolf form does pierce and gets 2 takedowns per rest. What a joke ..

Staelgar (Hiravias) is just a cat by another name.

Edited by peddroelm