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Abilities & various other (damage related) mechanics revealed

damage game mechanics

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#1
peddroelm

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Pillars_Of_Eternity_2015_04_21_19_34_33_
 
It was so trivial in the end .. 
 
Starting game area .. (less weapons with similar stats on map/RAM) 
 
Group search f:11.0 f:16.0 ( rounding extreme) . 27 results.. Print screen address list .. 
 
Console add 3 more axes.. Redo same group search ... 30 results.. On the money! .. Compare address list with print screen .. Its the 3 new results grouped together at the end of the list .. 
 
This info could be used to gather more intel on "weapon" items in memory (faster search with more refined group) and even on items/inventory in general ..
 
//////////////////////////////
Anyway reverse engineering various damage abilities how (or even IF) they work should be in the realm of possibility .
 

Edited by peddroelm, 22 April 2015 - 09:46 PM.

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#2
peddroelm

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fist result of this.. Carnage damage modifier is -34%. And Proof that hit quality damage "multipliers" are additive ..

 

Weapon used base 10 damage (yay) .. 42% bonus from might ..

 

combat log 

Hits
14.2 - DR (4.0) = 10.2 slash
10.8 - DR (4.0) =  6.8 slash (Carnage)
Grazes
9.2 - DR (4.0) = 5.2 slash
5.8 - DR (4.0) = 1.8 slash (Carnage) 

10 * (1 + 0.42 ) = 14.2  // hit damage normal attack (before DR)

10 * (1 + 0.42 - 0.34) = 10.8 // hit damage carnage (before DR)

10 * (1 + 0.42 - 0.5) =  9.2 // graze damage normal attack (before DR)

10 * (1 + 0.42 - 0.5  - 0.34 ) = 5.8  //graze damage carnage (before DR)

 

Will be able to check for sure if blooded/fighting spirit actually add any damage without displaying it in char sheet .. I will also take suggestions into what other weapon damage mechanics you want revealed ..


Edited by peddroelm, 21 April 2015 - 07:34 PM.

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#3
peddroelm

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Tested Fighting Spirit. To my surprise - even if the "Lying Character screen"  (LCS for diablo veterans) doesn't display the damage bonus..(it does display the accuracy bonus)  the damage gets added (if the combat log is to be believed).. 

 

Calisca (human)  21% might bonus . 

10 * (1 + 0.21) = 12.1 // hit normal damage (before DR)
10 * (1 + 0.21 - 0.5) = 7.1 // graze damage normal attack (before DR)
Calisca activates fighting spirit .// (character screen still displays damage range 12-12 . But accuracy goes up by 7 ) 
10 * (1 + 0.21 + 0.15 - 0.5) = 8.6 // graze damage (with fighting spirit 15% bonus) normal attack (before DR)

Blooded test . (adds the 25% damage , doesn't show it in LCS)

addability Companion_Calisca(Clone)_1

Calisca was granted blooded. 

Calisca activates blooded ..

Calisca hits Xaurip for 12 slash damage

16.1 - DR (4.0) = 12.1 slash

10* (1 + 0.21 + 0.15 + 0.25 ) = 16.1


Edited by peddroelm, 21 April 2015 - 10:29 AM.

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#4
peddroelm

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Decided to check Torments Reach extra hits damage.. Was expecting them to scale with weapon damage like carnage .. Wrong.. 

Torments Reach additional hits past the melee target don't use equipped weapon's stats for calculation .. Upped my battle axe to do 100 base damage - torment's subsequent hits average damage did not go up ..  

 

Digging trough game-files it would seem torments reach uses 15-25 base damage weapon for damage calculations ( better than 2 handed weapons ) (for the extra hits behind target)  .. Next I upped my monk's Might to 100 and check torment's damage . .Went up (~ 86 on hit) ..

 

Conclusion , perhaps a bit rushed..  Best way to milk most damage of torments reach subsequent hits is to use fastest attack possible (think dual fist, dual weapon skill, no armor, and stack damage mods) .. You might not do that much damage per swing to the target in front of you (melee target)  but torment's extra hits behind will hit fast & hard (but always and only crush damage) .. Dual weapons will apply this 2h based damage twice per wound with high attack rate .. 


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#5
dukefx

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Any chance to make some spell do fixed damage?

 

Edit: you should edit that quality modifier statement of yours to indicate "weapon damage". Duration quality modifiers are multiplicative, that's 100% sure. I'd still like to know spell damage.


Edited by dukefx, 21 April 2015 - 01:27 PM.


#6
peddroelm

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Any chance to make some spell do fixed damage?

plausible but not in the immediate future



#7
Matt516

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Very good work, peddroelm. Very good work indeed.



#8
peddroelm

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Messed a bit with Retaliation attacks..   

 

Preliminary tests (Sanguine Plate) show that they are autohit (no toHIT roll - no miss/no graze/no crit/always hit), and like Torment's Reach AOE attacks use a magic weapon, with 10-15 base damage, piercing damage type (so equipped weapon has no influence on the retaliation attacks damage/effects) .. Damage modifiers (might, savage attacks, etc) work as with any other "weapon" attack ..


Edited by peddroelm, 21 April 2015 - 08:25 PM.


#9
peddroelm

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(brought this here to have all my mechanics test results in the same thread - even if not all of them make use of no damage RNG roll removal)

 

Lash effect (weapon elemental lash enchantments 25%, marked prey 40%,  torment's reach 50% on main attack, turning wheel 5%/wound, lightning strikes 10%, flames of devotion 50%, intense flames 25%,  wildstrike , etc ..)

 

Every lash effect goes against 0.25 *Target's DR of the appropriate type, separately.. Weapon DR Bypass does not apply for lash damage (dev confirmed)

 

Fun with 2h handed monk and lash multipliers original.gif ..
 
Damage multiplier 1 +  0.27 (might) + 0.15 (fine weapon) + 0.15 (two handed weapon)  + 0.2 (savage attack)
25% corrosion
 
Ex 1
 
hit vs Troll DR 8    (16 crush  4 fire,corrode)   .. 2 handed staff of corrosion ..
 
32.2 - DR (16.0)= 16.2 Crush + 12.1 Crush + 13.5 Burn + 1.2 Shock + 7 Corrode = 50
 
lash ("multiplicative") damage
32.2 * 0.5 - 16*0.25 =12.1   // 50% crush Torments reach
32.2 * ( 0.05 * 9) - 4*0.25  = 13.49 // 9 tuning wheel wounds
32.2 * 0.1 - 8*0.25 = 1.22  // lightning strikes (sucks)
32.2 * 0.25 - 4*0.25 = 7.05 // 25% corrode  on staff
 
Ex 2
crit vs Sporeling 7 (14 crush, 3.5 corrode)   2 handed staff of corrosion
 
37.6 - DR (14.0) = 23.6 Crush + 15.3 Crush + 15.2 Burn + 2 Shock + 8.5 Corrode = 65
 
lash ("multiplicative") damage
37.6 * 0.5 - 14 * 0.25 = 15.3 // 50% torments reach
37.6 * (0.05*9) - 7 * 0.25 = 15.17 // 9 turning wheel wounds
37.6 * 0.1 - 7 * 0.25 = 2.01 // lightning strikes (still sucks)

37.6 * 0.25 - 3.5 * 0.25 = 8.525 // 25% corrode on staff

 

Marked Prey example 1 (40% lash)

 

Warhammer vs Drake  (marked prey debuff) . pierce DR 13.5 , crush DR 18.. 

21 - DR (13.5)  = 7.5 Pierce + 3.9 Crush!

Here's how the marked prey lash damage is calculated .. 21 * 0.4 - TargetDR * 0.25..

 

You'd expect warhammer to pick the pierce DR (lower)  and thus get 21 * 0.4 - 13.5*0.25 = 5.025 ..

Instead, for some oversight, game picks target's crush DR (which was higher than pierce DR)

 21 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25 = 3.9 as shown in combat log

 

Marked Prey example 2

 

Market target Estoc (5 DR bypass) vs 18 Pierce DR  Market target

23.2 - DR (18.0-5.0)= 10.2 Pierce + 4.8 Pierce

23.2 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25= 4.78

Had the DR bypass effect of the Estoc affected the lash damage the bonus damage should've been

23.2*0.4- (18-5)*0.25 = 6.03

 

/// code tags have combat log lines


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#10
peddroelm

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Did some tests on Confident Aim.. Works as advertised ( changes min weapon damage stat *1.2 before RNG  damage roll happens on the new smaller interval ) .. Works for ranged weapons too .. Will turn 2h weapon base damage range  from 14-20 to 16.8-20 .. Arquebus from 24-36  to 28.8-36 .. 

 

Used 10-12.1 Battle Axe, no damage bonus char  .. observed hit damage in (10*1.2 - 12.1) interval as expected .. 

 

added 270% damage bonus and hit damage again was as expected in  44.4 - 44.77 range ..  

(10*1.2) * (1 + 2.7) = 44.4

12.1 * (1 + 2.7)= 44.77


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#11
VaultDuke

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awesome stuff!

a question about confident aim: does the damage bonus apply all the time or only on grazes?


Edited by Gruftlord, 22 April 2015 - 07:59 AM.


#12
peddroelm

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awesome stuff!

a question about confident aim: does die damage bonus apply all the time or only on grazes?

all the time, of course.


Edited by peddroelm, 22 April 2015 - 07:59 AM.


#13
peddroelm

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Few tests with druid shapeshift  - basically uber monks .. They have 16-25 !!! base damage per paw/claw  (and bypass 5 DR by default - EAT IT estocs :p ) ( monks are 10-15 and receive some flat extra as they level , 2h weapons are 14-20)..   Didn't check attack speed .. 

 

Weapon Focus Peasant adds +6 accuracy.. Biggest problem for shape shifting early game is lack of accuracy .. (hit like a truck, miss the barn sitting in front of you, repeatedly) ..

 

 Is kind of hard to make optimal use of uber claws.. (hard to add damage modifiers on druid) High might, savage attack, human shape-shifting at low endurance with fighting spirit on..Because of the huge base damage the 25% vs beasts/ghosts/etc talents would work really well.. .. Accuracy boosts (potion/ paladin/..) .  Dual weapon fighting - dual  spears when not shapeshifted ..  Probably not worth focusing too much on shape-shift / melee druid since it lasts so little .. But there is some potential  .. And (30% + 15% + belt) wildstrike lash (multiplicative) damage  .. These things might topple dragons (assuming they get the accuracy to land the hits somehow) ..


Edited by peddroelm, 22 April 2015 - 08:57 AM.


#14
peddroelm

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few damage tests on ranger animal companions.. 

 

wolf gets  13-19 base damage (pierce) .. 

rest of them  11-17 base damage (pierce) ..   (source game files and a few quick test to check ingame ).. Don't know about attack speeds ..Maybe all same as 2h weapon ?

 

The ranger perks that increase the damage Animal Companions do work of those base values .. 

 

Bear starts game at 11 DR (think rest start with 9) .. At lvl 12 ranger adds +4.5 DR to AC.. And could sink a perk for another +3 DR.. So that would be 18.5 DR before other buffs.. Not sure how durable he will be on POTD .. Probable not very ..


Edited by peddroelm, 22 April 2015 - 06:05 PM.

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#15
peddroelm

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Barbaric Blow test ..  10 damage BattleAxe.  33% Might bonus. 25% blooded bonus.  -34% carnage bonus (for carnage) .  150 % bonus for crit ( 0.5 + 0.5 (BA) + 0.5 barbaric blow) ..  The 50% extra crit damage bonus applies to all carnage crits not only the ones elevated by barbaric blow.. Blooded damage bonus works for carnage hits as expected .. 

10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 ) = 15.8  // hit normal attack damage before DR
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) = 10.8  // graze normal attack damage before DR
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 ) = 12.4 // carnage hit before DR
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) = 7.4 // carnage graze before DR
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 + 1.5 ) = 27.4 // carnage crit with BB bonus before DR

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#16
peddroelm

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addability ..onestandsalone 
 
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 42.4 // hit
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 37.4 // graze
10 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 34 // carnage graze
 
Change weapon's base damage to 20 .. Add extra effect chanter debuff -0.1 (dull blade bla bla) 
 
20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 + 1 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 76.2 // crit
20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 - 0.34 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 49.4 //carnage hit
20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.1 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 39.4 //carnage graze
// kill the enemy chanter (no more -0.1 debuff)
 
20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 48.2 //graze
20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 51.4 //carnage hit
20 * ( 1 + 0.33 + 0.25 - 0.34 - 0.5 ) + 20 * (1 + 0.33) = 41.4 //carnage graze 
TLDR When active OSA adds 26.6 20 * (1 + might mod ) damage per connecting (graze, hit , crit) attack/carnage .. Equipped weapon stats//damage mods not directly relevant .. Ver 1.04

Edited by peddroelm, 24 April 2015 - 07:35 AM.

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#17
peddroelm

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Quick Driving Flight test  (poor Man's carnage :p ).. Secondary hit has a -6 accuracy , -50% damage mod.. 
The secondary shot uses same damage mods as main weapon , lash enchantment , etc .. 
This can easily double or more damage per shot (if main graze && secondary hits // main hits && secondary crits // main graze && secondary crits)
But will not work so great with low damage per projectile weapons on POTD due to DR issues (blunderbuss , bows ..)
 
20 damage Arbalest.. 36% might bonus.. 
20 * (1 + 0.36) = 27.2 // hit  , main attack before DR
20 * (1 + 0.36 - 0.5) = 17.2  // graze, main attack before DR
20 * (1 + 0.36 - 0.5) = 17.2 // hit secondary before DR
20 * (1 + 0.36 - 0.5 - 0.5) = 7.2 // graze secondary before DR 
And with beast slayer vs 2 bears 
 
20 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.25 ) = 32.2 // hit main
20 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.25 - 0.5 ) = 22.2 // hit secondary

Edited by peddroelm, 22 April 2015 - 07:31 PM.

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#18
b0rsuk

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1. I'd like more information on hit conversion. In what order does it work ?

 

A Hearth Orlan wielding a flail is attacking an enemy already targeted by his ally. Do grazes get converted to hits before Hearth Orlan passive converts those hits to crits ?

 

2. I read somewhere that some lash effects suppress each other. If I remember correctly, there are three types of lashes. Lashes coming from abilities never suppress each other. On the other hand, lashes coming from the weapon DO. Does this mean that a weapon with +25% against Prone, Flanked, Stunned enchanted with Freezing Lash (+25%) and Beast Slaying only deals +25% damage total anyway ?


Edited by b0rsuk, 22 April 2015 - 11:03 PM.


#19
koski

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1. I'd like more information on hit conversion. In what order does it work ?

 

A Hearth Orlan wielding a flail is attacking an enemy already targeted by his ally. Do grazes get converted to hits before Hearth Orlan passive converts those hits to crits ?

 

If i understood that question correctly, you're talking about graze -> hit -> crit conversion? As far as I know, the conversions only do one step. So a graze can only be converted to a hit and not any further and only hits can be converted to crits etc. 

 

Mechanically it means that hit to crit conversion check is done first and graze to hit is done second so grazing attacks never show as hits to the crit check.


Edited by koski, 22 April 2015 - 11:22 PM.


#20
famousringo

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Few tests with druid shapeshift  - basically uber monks .. They have 16-25 !!! base damage per paw/claw  (and bypass 5 DR by default - EAT IT estocs :p ) ( monks are 10-15 and receive some flat extra as they level , 2h weapons are 14-20)..   Didn't check attack speed .. 
 
Weapon Focus Peasant adds +6 accuracy.. Biggest problem for shape shifting early game is lack of accuracy .. (hit like a truck, miss the barn sitting in front of you, repeatedly) ..
 
 Is kind of hard to make optimal use of uber claws.. (hard to add damage modifiers on druid) High might, savage attack, human shape-shifting at low endurance with fighting spirit on..Because of the huge base damage the 25% vs beasts/ghosts/etc talents would work really well.. .. Accuracy boosts (potion/ paladin/..) .  Dual weapon fighting - dual  spears when not shapeshifted ..  Probably not worth focusing too much on shape-shift / melee druid since it lasts so little .. But there is some potential  .. And (30% + 15% + belt) wildstrike lash (multiplicative) damage  .. These things might topple dragons (assuming they get the accuracy to land the hits somehow) ..

You'll probably want to verify this, but from what I've seen, Wildstrike belt adds 10% to base damage, not to the lash. Which is nice, because it then gets multiplied by the lash. This makes sense, because then the belt is valuable to all druids, not just ones with wild strike talents.

And it's as you say, accuracy is the top issue. Then again, with zero recovery penalty, blazing fast attack speed and grazes that do 20 damage, it's not such a deal breaker.

Basically, if you build for it, wild shape is a great way to do heavy per encounter DPS before you start getting per encounter spells, at which point it seems a little silly. If a Druid could sustain it, it might still be valuable for situations where focus is more important than AoE/control, but it feels like a bad investment to sink all your talents into something that only lasts 12 seconds.


Edited by famousringo, 23 April 2015 - 08:50 AM.





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