Abilities & various other (damage related) mechanics revealed

[AndreaColombo]

Kewl.

 

Would be nice if they had small icons next to them like all other items from that screen. I think I'll suggest just that.

[mazeltov]

How did you get Concentration and Interrupt to show on your record screen like that?

 

Also, how are they calculated exactly?

 

Concentration is 75 at Resolve 10, and shifts up or down by three points for every higher or lower Resolve point.

 

Interrupt is 0 at Perception 10, and shifts up or down by three points for every higher or lower Perception point.

 

The Ranger in the picture has low Perception and Resolve (AC Attributes are being shown).

[AndreaColombo]

Concentration is 75 at Resolve 10, and shifts up or down by three points for every higher or lower Resolve point.

 

Interrupt is 0 at Perception 10, and shifts up or down by three points for every higher or lower Perception point.

 

The Ranger in the picture has low Perception and Resolve (AC Attributes are being shown).

 

 

So the Interrupt vs. Concentration check is Attack Roll + Interrupt - Concentration and the duration of the Interrupt depends on whether it is a Graze, Hit, or Crit?

[mazeltov]

So the Interrupt vs. Concentration check is Attack Roll + Interrupt - Concentration and the duration of the Interrupt depends on whether it is a Graze, Hit, or Crit?

 

When an attack connects on a target in the midst of performing an action, an Interrupt roll is also made: d100 + Interrupt vs target's Concentration score. If the Concentration score is beaten, an Interrupt occurs with a duration determined by the weapon or spell that connected. A Crit on the attack that triggered the Interrupt add 25 to the Interrupt roll, while a Graze subtracts 25 from it. A regular Hit uses the character's normal Interrupt rating.

[peddroelm]

new beta patch update 1.0.5.0565

 

marked prey test vs gul (0 DR)

20.4 + 8.1     ( 40% )  ?!!?

 

- are they messing with the value between various versions of the beta patches ? (not likely )

- is the ability behaving inconsistently ?

- measuring error from my part ?

 

1.0.5.0567

23.6 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25 == 4.9 still at 40%

Edited May 7, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

think I've managed to figure out what's with Marked Prey's inconsistent test results  ..

 

New 1.05.0.567 game

Made solo ranger attacks and combined (ranger + Animal companion vs marked target) ( considered they might be splitting the bonus when attacking same target) .. Invariably the bonus was 20%

 

14.2  (4 DR) 1.8 // 14.2 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.84

14.6  (4 DR) 1.9 // 14.6 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.92

15.8  (4 DR) 2.2 // 15.8 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 2.16

 7.8   (4 DR) 0.6 // 7.8 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 0.56

10.6  (4 DR) 1.1 // 10.6 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.12

 

Then I loaded an older save - game started before 1.05

 

23.7 (4 DR) 8.5    // 23.7 * 0.4 - 4 * 0.25 = 8.48

40%

 

Mystery solved . Marked Prey's nerf from 40% to 20%  isn't savegame retroactive ..

Edited May 8, 2015 by peddroelm

[the streaker]

Awesome, thanks for testing. Got my hopes up for marked prey though :s

Edited May 8, 2015 by the streaker

[b0rsuk]

Vulnerable Attack and Penetrating Shot

They obviously reduce DR from the primary attack. Do they also reduce DR for secondary lashes ? If you have a monk with Turning Wheel, Lightning Strikes, Torment's Reach and possibly other effects like the fire chant, it could make a difference.

[peddroelm]

Vulnerable attack lash damage test.

 

Weapon used RavenWing  3 DR bypass , burning lash

TestDummy Crucible Plate Armor 14 DR , 7 shockDR 

 

 

Combat log  

27.9 - (14.0 - 8.0) = 21.1 Crush + 10.4 Crush + 3.5 Burn + 5.2 Shock

 

27.9 * 0.5 - 14 * 0.25 = 10.45  // torments reach 50% crush on main target

27.9 * 0.25 - 14 * 0.25 = 3.475 // burning lash 25% burn

27.9 * 0.25 - 7 * 0.25 =  5.225 // Lightning Strikes 25% shock

 

None of the DR bypass bonii (from weapon , talents , buffs, etc.. ) have any relevance for Lash damage calculation ..

[peddroelm]

Rooting Pain test.. 

 

Its damage is casted as spell effect vs fortitude with equivalent weapon base 10-15. Equipped weapon's enchantments will have no effect and neither will savage attack (I just realized while testing this that savage attack won't do anything for torments reach AOE component either since it only applies to melee attacks) ..

 

Combat log with edited 15-15 rooting pain weapon. 30% might bonus

15 * (1 + 0.3 ) = 19.5 // hit

15 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 ) = 27 // crit

 

With lesser wounds and high constitution//healing - with high INT score this can do quite a lot of damage to low fortitude & low crush resist since it will trigger for each wound received and can affect multiple enemies .. 

 

Nothing glamorous - was actually searching for monk fist type of weapons which are also base 10-15 without success so far .. 

[peddroelm]

I finally managed to find the monk fist weapon (at least this once - hopping I'll be able to do so again for future tests) .. Confirming if there was any need that transcendent suffering damage gets flatly added after sum of damage mods multiplication ..

 

Here is the test with 0% might bonus and 15% from fighting spirit.. Monk fist used 15-15 base damage .. Level 1 char so +2 unarmed damage from transcendent suffering. 

 

Combat Log

19.3 - 4.0 DR = 15.3 Crush + 8.6 Crush  // Torment's reach initial hit

 

15 * (1+ 0.15) + 2 = 19.25 // fist hit

19.25 * 0.5 - 4 * 0.25 = 8.625 // 50% torment's reach 50% lash

 

Second test with added might to show might isn't doing double duty with transcendent suffering despite the lying ability description ..  30% might bonus

 

15 * (1+ 0.15 + 0.3) + 2   =  23.75   <> 24.4 // hit regular attack fist hit 

15 * (1+ 0.15 + 0.3) + 2 * (1 + 0.3) = 24.35  = 24.4    // SURPRISE - might bonus is applied to transcendent suffering damage bonus the same way (mechanically) it was applied to bugged OSA flat bonus damage.

 

 // Extra test at higher level to verify  15-15 base (found it again YAY! , 36% might bonus, 20% Savage Attack, Transcendent Suffering 3  +6 unarmed damage )

 

15 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.2 + (0.5 - 0.27)) + 6 * (1 + 0.36) = 35.01 ??  35.1 // crit fist regular attack  Not perfect match

15 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.2 ) + 6 * (1 + 0.36) = 31.56 ==  31.6 // hit  Match

 

//Maybe girdle of mortal protection is not exactly -0.27 as claimed ? -0.265 seems more likely  (I should check if 0.265 fits in previous girdle tests EDIT it did)

//Crit Test with girdle removed

 

15 * (1 + 0.36 + 0.2 + 0.5) + 6 * (1 + 0.36 )  = 39.06 ==  39.1  // crit match

Edited May 12, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

1.05 Converted Save 

Backstab adds 100% additive damage mod to melee attacks

DeathBlows adds 120% additive damage mod to melee attacks ( description mismatch - it is possible they nerfed it in 1.05 down to 100% and it is not retroactive - a test with new 1.05 game is needed to check  ) 

 

 

20 base sabre damage

Might 39%

Savage Attack 20%

Reckless Assault 20%

Crippling Strike / Blinding Strike 25%

Sneak Attack (SA) 50% 

Backstab 100%

Deathblows 120% 

 

//Blinding strike 25%

20 * (1 + 0.39 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.25 + 0.5 + 0.5 ) == 60.8 // Crit + SA

20 * (1 + 0.39 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.25 + 0.5 - 0.5 + 1) == 60.8 // Graze + SA + Backstab

 

//crippling strike 25% 

20 * (1 + 0.39 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.25 + 0.5 ) == 50.8 // Hit + SA   // WHY NO BACKSTAB ?!?!?

20 * (1 + 0.39 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.25 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 1 + 1.2) == 104.8 // Crit + SA + Backstab + DeathBlows

 

//regular attacks

20 * (1 + 0.39 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 1 + 1.2) == 99.8 // Crit + SA + Backstab + DeathBlows

20 * (1 + 0.39 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.5 + 1 + 1.2) == 89.8 // hit + SA + Backstab + DeathBlows

Edited May 14, 2015 by peddroelm

[Exoduss]

Got a question : Does weapon enchantment's stack when you dual-wield ? can you have Annihilation x2 ? or is it separate for each weapon ( and only weapon which has annihilation benefits from it ) ? or 1 just gets overwritten ?

Edited May 14, 2015 by Exoduss

[peddroelm]

Got a question : Does weapon enchantment's stack when you dual-wield ? can you have Annihilation x2 ? or is it separate for each weapon ( and only weapon which has annihilation benefits from it ) ? or 1 just gets overwritten ?

I didn't specifically test for this - but is very unlikely for damage mods/enchantments on a weapon to directly apply to another weapon/ability ..

 

There is however a claim that "annihilation" does apply to torment's reach AOE magic attacks. I should get around to testing this hopefully no later than this weekend .. Even if it turns out to be true - it would only be due to a bug ..

Edited May 14, 2015 by peddroelm

[AndreaColombo]

Peddroelm, are you able to check on this? https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79482-so-is-20-speed-on-weapons-working/?do=findComment&comment=1690966

[peddroelm]

Peddroelm, are you able to check on this? https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79482-so-is-20-speed-on-weapons-working/?do=findComment&comment=1690966

I will .

[Kaigen42]

I haven't tested every single speed weapon, but every single one I've tested hasn't worked. You can pretty easily test it by taking two characters with equal Dex and no other speed modifiers in Clothes, one with a speed weapon and one with an identical non-speed weapon, and have them both attack the same target. The synced up animations will tell you that Speed isn't functioning.

[peddroelm]

I haven't tested every single speed weapon, but every single one I've tested hasn't worked. You can pretty easily test it by taking two characters with equal Dex and no other speed modifiers in Clothes, one with a speed weapon and one with an identical non-speed weapon, and have them both attack the same target. The synced up animations will tell you that Speed isn't functioning.

My tests where done using the same character - but the results were conclusively the same . Speed mod on unique weapons doesn't do anything attack speed wise (other than limit enchantment potential )..

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78410-proper-debugger-breakpoints-dot-hot-tests/?do=findComment&comment=1691111

[AndreaColombo]

Thanks, peddroelm!

[peddroelm]

25-25 torement's reach "weapon"

30% might

dual wield unique battle axes Edge of Reason & We Toki

 

25 * (1 + 0.3 - 0.5) == 20 // graze savage attack as predicted - not working for "magic weapons"

25 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5) == 57.5 // crit  The Bonus damage on crits for Battle Axes transfers to TR crits 

25 * (1 + 0.3) == 32.5 // hit  

 

Accuracy from Transcendent Suffering doesn't apply to Torment's reach AOE chance to hit - but the accuracy enchantment from (superb/excellent) weapons did .

 

73 accuracy TR AOE with fist // lvl 10 monk +12 accuracy to fist from transcendent suffering did not transfer to TR AOE

85 accuracy TR AOE with Blade of Endless Paths (superb weapon) 73 + 12

87 accuracy TR AOE with We Toki ( knight weapon focus + excellent weapon ) 73 + 6 + 8

91 accuracy TR AOE with Edge of Reason ( knight weapon focus + superb weapon ) 73 + 6 + 12

94 accuracy TR AOE with We Toki ( knight weapon focus + excellent weapon + fighting spirit ) 73 + 6 + 8 + 7

98 accuracy TR AOE with Edge of Reason ( knight weapon focus + superb weapon + fighting spirit ) 73 + 6 + 12 + 7

 

 

25 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5) == 45.0 // crit with fist weapon 

 

// console in merciless hand talent (+25% damage on crits) .. Might bonus changed to 33% (some debuff expired)

25 * (1 + 0.33 + (0.5 + 0.5 + 0.25)) == 64.5 // crit - merciless hand worked  for TR AOE crit

 

 

TL-DR Torment's reach AOE component uses a 15-25 base "magic" weapon that inherits accuracy enhancements from equipped weapon (but NOT from transcendent suffering when using fists) .

Fighting spirit +7 accuracy did apply, the 15% damage did not (presumably applies to proper weapons only) ..The bonus crit damage from battle axes and merciless hand talent applied to TR AOE component (all sources of crit damage very likely to work)

 

TODO

Will battle axe and all bonuses to crit damage apply to EVERYTHING ?

Will the annihilation mod on other unique weapons work the same ?

Will rabit fur glove apply to TR crits ? 

Edited May 15, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

Any chance to make some spell do fixed damage?

 

 

A few low level direct damage Wizard spell tests

 

fan of flames test  30-42 base (memdited to 42-42)  30% might

 

42 * (1 + 0.3) == 54.6 // hit

42 * (1 + 0.3 - 0.5) == 33.6 //graze - hit quality additive

42 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5) == 75.6 // crit (battle axe crit bonus didn't apply) looks that it is a bug for Torment's reach AOE

 

//consoled rabbit fur & merciless hand

42 * (1 + 0.3 + (0.5 + 0.25 + 0.1)) == 90.3 // crit Merciless Hand talent works for spells and so do Rabbit Fur Gloves

 

 

//////////////////

 

Thurst of tattered Veils 18-35 (memedited to 35-35) 

 

35 * (1 + 0.3 + (0.5 + 0.25 + 0.1)) == 75.3 // crit 

 

/////////////////

Jolting Touch first Hit 20-35 (memedited to 35-35)

 

35 * (1 + 0.3 + (0.5 + 0.25 + 0.1)) == 75.3 // crit

 

//////////////////

Minoletta's Minor Missiles 3 * 12-21  (memedited to 21-21)

 

21 * (1 + 0.3 ) == 27.3 // hit

21 * (1 + 0.3 + (0.5 + 0.25 + 0.1)) == 45.2 // crit 

 

//////////////////////

Fireball  25-35 (memedited to 35-35)

 

35 * (1 + 0.3 + (0.5 + 0.25 + 0.1)) == 75.3 // crit

 

////////////////////////

 

Minoletta's Bounding Missiles 15-23 (memedited to 23-23)

 

23 * (1 + 0.3 + (0.5 + 0.25 + 0.1)) == 49.5 // crit

Edited May 15, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

random bits of info 

 

"Confident aim" graze to hit conversion applies to all toHit Checks  (I've seen it up on knockdown vs fortitude check - increasing the prone duration) .. 

"Disorienting" weapon mod  -5 all resistance debuff stacks with itself .. Probably a bug .. Very potent when combined with high INT carnage barbs .. 

"Flagellant's Path"  allows monks afflicted with "stuck" to reposition .. Bug ?

"Flagellant's Path" doesn't seem to make use of on weapon +accuracy enchantments but will apply Turning Wheel, Lightning Strike & Chanter Lash components .. 

 

Finishing blow , crippling strike, blinding strike, withering strike BREAK (shadowing beyond) invisibility BEFORE the first (melee) weapon swing ... Currently you need to break invisibility with regular attack (to get backstab) and then apply finishing blow (without backstab) .. (different timings, longer execution duration, smaller payoff) ..Sneak + Deathblows will give bigger payoff without the need for /per rest shadowing beyond since they don't put a restriction on the debilitation on strike abilities (blinding/cripple/etc ..)

Edited May 16, 2015 by peddroelm

[Adragan]

Thanks Peddroelm, you've got some pretty thorough testing going on here, mostly focused on weapons and skills. What's the name of the program you use ? I couldn't quite get the name in your video. (It seems that Cheat Engine has breakpoints and scripts though, so it may be possible to use it instead)

 

Anyway, do you intend to dig spells ?

 

In particular:

- Studying casting times and recovery differences

- Comparing things like Minoletta's spells that hit multiple times vs single hitters such as Fan of Flames, taking casting speed and DR into account

- Determining which +20% elemental damage talent is most beneficial based on elemental spells available

- Comparing damage of summoned weapons vs spell casting

- Deciding whether +15% damage talent for 2-handed weapons is interesting

- ...

 

For instance, it seems that people on the forums favor Scion of Flame (+20% Burn damage) and the +20% Corrode damage talent, but after going over the 6 levels of spells, it looks like +20% Freeze is more useful for wizards, especially after Fan of Flames was nerfed.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Adragan

[peddroelm]

Tests in this thread (weapon/ability/spell base damage RNG removal) - cheat engine (much faster searches, multiple search tabs accessible trough scripts, etc..).. For the breakpoint/combat log stuff I use memory hacking software (no longer maintained) http://memoryhacking.com/  . Cheat engine can probably offer similar functionality (maybe more) but so far I didn't put in the effort to find out exactly how .. 

 

I'm less into theory crafting (very complex comparisons with many factors involved) and more into figuring out how the abilities/mechanics work individually.. Since so far I've been playing melee parties exclusively - naturally I've focused more on figuring them out first .. Knowing how the various spells is still relevant because they can kill your melee party  and because of extreme cross class power provided by scrolls ..

 

There is also a balance between my curiosity and the time it takes to properly investigate a certain feature/spell ... I'm still interested in this game so hopefully this thread will continue to grow (however infrequently ) with test results in the future ..

Edited May 16, 2015 by peddroelm

[Adragan]

Ok, that's perfectly understandable

I might give spells a try with Cheat Engine but I'm unlikely to find the time in the coming months.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Adragan