How to Ranger? Or: Why can't I make Sagani awesome?

[ibanix]

How do you make Rangers shine? I really enjoy Sagani as an NPC, but all I can see to do with her is pew-pew with arrows. It seems kind of... underwhelming. What am I missing?

[MoxyWoo]

There is nothing really missing, Sagani is actually decent with the might and dexterity.

 

The class talent she is missing is Swift Aim as a Ranger using a Blunderbuss (or similar slow weapon) with marked prey + stalker's link makes them one of the best gunners around.  Reloading, and attacking much faster with some of the best guns is what makes rangers so good.  Additionally, adding a rogue with her other hobble skill makes for a very nice volley at the start of combat.  The problem is she usually automatically has Weapon Focus:  Peasant which seems to make you want to use hunting bows which are a decent weapon, but not nearly as great as guns overall for companions.

 

OR

 

You can use the weapon focus: peasant with Vicious Aim and love the hunting bow for crits next to guns or similar lower crit items.  Then use Envenomed Strike (which can also crit for its raw damage) to give her much better single attack.  Ideally this is done with a crossbow actually, but with her weapon focus already picked this is an alternate way to go.

 

OR

 

Just use the IE mod and change her talents to the above.

 

OR

 

Just like her for the fact she is reliable physical direct damage which is sorely lacking in all the other companions.

[koski]

From what I've heard, rangers really shine with that early fight burst. Their very high accuracy ensures they never miss and with modals like Vicious Aim, they're able to deal devastating damage with their shots.

 

The thing is, most of their abilities might be wasted from using a regular bow, because their inferior damage (and increasing that damage, at the expense of attack speed is a bit redundant). A lot of people run rangers with double, triple or quadruple guns. If you slap a Marked Prey (+20 damage against single target, per encounter, wiki info) and use your weapon slots to just fire 2-4 guns you'll do devastating damage with no reloading time. It takes a while to get back into the damage game after that but you'll have dealt an insane amount of damage at the start of the combat. Often ensuring that at least one target has fallen before the enemies even know what hit them.

 

Outside that, rangers do not have that much going for them that could not be overdone by rogues using the same weapons. And while rogues rely on status effects to deal damage, but most of those status effects already reduce enemy deflection enough to bring them to the same level as ranger in terms of accuracy that they win out as long as you're able to provide them. Still, ranger doing a quad gun at the start of combat is more likely to bring down a strong foe than rogue is with sneak attack only.

[Climhazzard]

She's easily the worst npc companion, no idea how you make her awesome, lol. 

[MoxyWoo]

She's easily the worst npc companion, no idea how you make her awesome, lol. 

 

After 1.03 she has one of the best might/dex stats which is why so many people use the other companions with guns (or other high dmg weapons), where as she actually has the flexibility to have some build paths above due to the ranger +acc stuff they gain.  Additionally, +15 acc that comes up quite often for a dwarf is nice and helps her crit.

 

That said, my playstyle tries to minimize micromanaging (getting older, so queuing up every action was fun 10 years ago, but not so much for me now) for the random fights, and part of that is to have good physical direct damage which Sagani provides really well.

[koski]

She's easily the worst npc companion, no idea how you make her awesome, lol. 

 

She is hardly the worst NPC companion, she just has the worst class to start with (ranger doesn't have much going for them) but at least she has all her stats in order and her talents are not useless.

 

I would actually say Kana Rua is the worst companion now. He does not have great stats for tanking (which chanters would be good at) and (at least used to have) less chants than he is supposed to have as a chanter of his level and has taken an useless invocation (skeletons) compared to say, Phantom. Get him too late (I think at level 4) and he comes with Field Triange, which is practically useless outside doing "less than 10 rests" run. He does have an early level 2 chant when you get him, but that does not make up for the other areas he is lacking at.

[b0rsuk]

Sagani has the misfortune of being specialized in Hunting Bows, which suffer greatly from enemy Damage Reduction. If you take Penetrating Shots, you'll be trading 20% firing speed for +5 damage. Actually most enemies have at least 5 DR. Enemies with 0 DR are hard to find, and become even less common in later stages. There is a bow you can find late in the game which has built-in 5 DR penetration. Also, use Kana's invocation which reduces enemy DR. Speaking of Kana, you may want to use the phrase with faster reload. Either way, make her focus on soft targets like non-skeletal mages and priests. She has +15 accuracy against beasts and wilders (Ogres etc), keep that in mind too. You can keep a pair of bows: one for wilders, one for beasts.

 

2nd level Wizard spell "Combusting Wounds" makes enemies take 5 fire damage on each hit. This is great with fast attacks, like Sagani's. Games started after patch 1.03 have Itumaak with 15 Dexterity instead of 10. He attacks faster, and benefits more from Combusting Wounds.

 

Another approach is to forget about bow damage altogether. Don't use Marked Prey, a waste of time. There's a high-level passive ability Stunning Shots. If you hit an enemy engaged by your companion, he's stunned ! A regular hit is enough, no need for critical. You would probably still want Vicious Aim for +10 accuracy, but you may not want to bother with penetration if you go that route. Sagani already starts with Wounding Shot. The slowing effect depends on accuracy, but not damage. Binding Roots don't rely on bow. People say the talent is currently bugged and does nothing, but Interrupting Blows works with ranged attacks and cares about accuracy, not damage. Sagani already has great Perception, so once a patch fixes that it should be a good fit.

 

You can focus on talents which buff the fox instead of the bow. Merciless Companion gives +30% fox damage against flanked, prone, stunned etc enemies. Predator's Sense gives +50% against targets which are taking damage over time (Wounding Arrow, and a bow you can find early). Takedown is a great ability, it gives you two knockdowns per encounter (initially 1).

Edited April 16, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Climhazzard]

 

She's easily the worst npc companion, no idea how you make her awesome, lol. 

 

She is hardly the worst NPC companion, she just has the worst class to start with (ranger doesn't have much going for them) but at least she has all her stats in order and her talents are not useless.

 

I would actually say Kana Rua is the worst companion now. He does not have great stats for tanking (which chanters would be good at) and (at least used to have) less chants than he is supposed to have as a chanter of his level and has taken an useless invocation (skeletons) compared to say, Phantom. Get him too late (I think at level 4) and he comes with Field Triange, which is practically useless outside doing "less than 10 rests" run. He does have an early level 2 chant when you get him, but that does not make up for the other areas he is lacking at.

 

 

 

I guess i hadn't noticed that because I always get Kana at level 3, I nearly always use him as an offtank, seems to do fine on hard difficulty.  Sure would be nice if he had phantom instead of skeletons, but later on you can just save your points for better summons anyways, or use the dragon slashing phrase.

 

Sagani on the other hand, is a ranger that starts out using the hunting bow, not to good even if she has a decent stat allocation, suppose stunning shots are a decent option though.  But if you want an npc companion that stuns while shooting, grieving mother using the warbow Borresaine can do the same thing, and have 10x more utility.  Does stunning shots work with the talent that makes the arrows hit multiple targets?  If that were the case it might be a good option.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Climhazzard

[KDubya]

MoxyWoo pretty much nailed it on how to get the most out of Sagani.

 

With the hunting bow and  vicious shot she consistently hits and crits with auto attack. Add the penetrating modal for further DR ignoring. As long as you keep her vertical she'll output consistent damage. There are no big spikes or AoE but the mob will be thinned.

 

I actually like her for the pet. A disposable suicide tank is great. Sometimes I send the pet to hold the enemy while everyone fires ranged and/or per encounter abilities. Sometimes after the initial volley send in Eder and my two hander fighter into the fray. If nothing else the pet will engage a few and soak 100+ endurance without any ensuing health loss causing attrition damage.

[Climhazzard]

If you suicide the pet though you lose 10 accuracy..

[b0rsuk]

(It looks like I can't delete posts)

Edited April 16, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Crucis]

MoxyWoo pretty much nailed it on how to get the most out of Sagani.

 

With the hunting bow and  vicious shot she consistently hits and crits with auto attack. Add the penetrating modal for further DR ignoring. As long as you keep her vertical she'll output consistent damage. There are no big spikes or AoE but the mob will be thinned.

 

I actually like her for the pet. A disposable suicide tank is great. Sometimes I send the pet to hold the enemy while everyone fires ranged and/or per encounter abilities. Sometimes after the initial volley send in Eder and my two hander fighter into the fray. If nothing else the pet will engage a few and soak 100+ endurance without any ensuing health loss causing attrition damage.

 

You need to be a little cautious with ranger animal companions, because as I've been told, if they are knocked out, their ranger takes a -20 acc hit, which can be the difference between getting lots of hits and crits and ending up with lots of grazes, some hits and some misses.

 

I tended to hold back my ranger's animal companion from the initial wave of enemies, letting my tanks take the brunt of their attacks.  And saved the AC for an early rear guard, in case the enemy teleported something into our rear to go after my Aloth.  But occasionally, I'd send the AC up to reinforce the front lines, after my tanks were fully engaged.

 

I didn't have Sagani in my party for long (long enough to finish her personal quest) because my PC was a ranger.  But in the time she was in my party, I felt that she held her own.

[KDubya]

I feel like if the pet is not dead at the end of every fight I am not getting the most out of it

 

PC "Look there's a giant slime and some puddings."

 

Eder "They look dangerous, probably have poison and diseases"

 

PC "Better send the fox in first"

 

Aloth "Once they bunch up I'll let loose with a fireball and some cones of fire"

 

Itumaak "where is the SPCA when I need them? "

 

 

 

P.S. My party should be hunted by PETA

Edited April 16, 2015 by KDubya

[Crucis]

I feel like if the pet is not dead at the end of every fight I am not getting the most out of it

 

PC "Look there's a giant slime and some puddings."

 

Eder "They look dangerous, probably have poison and diseases"

 

PC "Better send the fox in first"

 

Aloth "Once they bunch up I'll let loose with a fireball and some cones of fire"

 

Itumaak "where is the SPCA when I need them? "

 

LOL!!!

[Blovski]

1. Penetrating Shot.

2. Vicious Aim.

3. Whatever else tickles your fancy

There ya go.

[ibanix]

. If you slap a Marked Prey (+20 damage against single target, per encounter, wiki info) and use your weapon slots to just fire 2-4 guns you'll do devastating damage with no reloading time. It takes a while to get back into the damage game after that but you'll have dealt an insane amount of damage at the start of the combat. Often ensuring that at least one target has fallen before the enemies even know what hit them.

 

 

I thought that was a typo and it should be +20 PERCENT.

 

Because +20 is insane.

[Climhazzard]

Pretty sure, from what I've read elsewhere, not my own experience, that it is a typo.

[koski]

 

. If you slap a Marked Prey (+20 damage against single target, per encounter, wiki info) and use your weapon slots to just fire 2-4 guns you'll do devastating damage with no reloading time. It takes a while to get back into the damage game after that but you'll have dealt an insane amount of damage at the start of the combat. Often ensuring that at least one target has fallen before the enemies even know what hit them.

 

 

I thought that was a typo and it should be +20 PERCENT.

 

Because +20 is insane.

 

 

Could be misinformation, but the Barbarian talent One Stands Alone is currently giving you +20 damage to all attacks (whether that is intentional or not), so I would not be surprised if the ranger ability gave the same thing. I've never had a ranger in my party, so I didn't test it myself. Either way, early game  burst is what ranger excels at. +20% or +20 does not matter much for the end result/playstyle. Your tactics is to burst one target down with gun switches and then move to (slowly) dps:sing the rest.

[ibanix]

I just tested it out, and it's not +20. It's more likely +20% (but this isn't clear from the logs). 

[rk47]

It's 20% Bonus.

My suggestion would be to give her Penetrating Shot and Vicious Aim.

Load her up with a nice heavy ranged weapon and fire at the start...swap to other weapons that doesn't require reload

Alternatively you can try a different approach and have her equip a blunderbuss before firing a Wounding Shot.

It will have a very strange effect of applying 6 DoT damage if all 6 projectile lands.

From there you can also try Envenomed Strike (Offense Talent use 3 per rest) that applies 6 Poison DoT if all 6 projectile of Blunderbuss lands.

Keep in mind that Blunderbuss isn't as long ranged as Arbalest / Aquerbus. B

 

I'm just tossing ideas here, but the passives are easy to deduce for Rangers, you want more DR penetration. You don't really care about attack speed at all.

And don't spend any talent on pets unless you're really sure it helps. The pets are there to tie up an extra enemy while the Ranger focus on the soft wizards.

Edited April 16, 2015 by rk47

[rheingold]

Good war bow and penetrating shot + Vicious aim and she does an obscene amount of damage. Give her an arbelest with vicious aim and she gets lots of knockdowns. Incredibly useful character and the source of a serious amount of consistent damage.

[Climhazzard]

There's a really good guide on steam with some ranger builds you should check out.  Not sure how much it'll help with Sagani though since she starts with peasant weapon focus, at least I think she does.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

[Longknife]

I've honestly never understood complaints about her cause she crits for me constantly. Her pet sucks, but otherwise she's always done well for me.

[b0rsuk]

Ibanix, are you sure Sagani is doing badly in your team ? She's not flashy, but can deal reliable damage. Check out character screens and compare "Personal...damage dealt".

 

In my first party Sagani was doing as much damage as Hiravius. I got them both at the same time, and Hiravius was using lots of area damage spells.

[ibanix]

Ibanix, are you sure Sagani is doing badly in your team ? She's not flashy, but can deal reliable damage. Check out character screens and compare "Personal...damage dealt".

 

In my first party Sagani was doing as much damage as Hiravius. I got them both at the same time, and Hiravius was using lots of area damage spells.

 

No, I'm not sure, but I guess I'm biased because she sits in the back and just shoots at stuff. I suppose that's a personal failing of mine. I'm used to picking abilities/spells/whatever on other characters and watching them make bad guys explode.