Are Paladins really that bad?

[Brimsurfer]

Ok so I created a Bleak Walker Paladin for my PotD playthrough,

 

Mig 16

Con 10

Dex 8

Per 16

Int 12

Res 16

 

was planning to role play a real badass zealot. But I got my ass kicked even in the first tutorial map and the one after (Valenwood) and then I saw all these posts here on this forum talking about Paladins being underpowered specially in mid to late game, in comparison to other classes.........

 

So is it true? Are Paladins really weak? 

 

My other alternative was a Priest should roll a priest instead, then?

 

Any insight would be great on Paladins though, I really wanted to play a badass frontliner and I dont want to play a fighter or a barbarian....

 

Thanks

Edited April 13, 2015 by Brimsurfer

[petrivanzyl]

They're not THAT bad

[Brimsurfer]

They're not THAT bad

But they are bad, yes? (I mean in comparison to other front liners)

Edited April 13, 2015 by Brimsurfer

[Rosbjerg]

I have a Paladin on the front line and she's doing just fine, dealing damage and taking hits - they are a bit different from the IE times though, they are more of a hybrid class, sacrificing usability for flexibility - so they are worse than a straight fighters or priest, because they are a mix between.

 

You can take them in 2 directions though if I recall correct leveling up - self buff or group buff. I think a self buff Paladin can be quite the heavy hitter.

[Exoduss]

Paladins are good , people playing them are bad , didnt pay much atention to This build but it seems bad from first look ,

paladin is not a killing machine he is a buffing tank who can also heal for emergencies meanwhile fighter is a tank that does nothing except tank so as long as paladin can survive as much or even better than fighter but fighter has no buffs paladin is just better tank in a 6 man party , plain and simple stop cry go play

Edited April 13, 2015 by Exoduss

[Kaigen42]

Paladins are good tanks with high defenses (provided the Paladin is the PC), but their support abilities aren't exactly great. This means they suffer in comparison to Fighters, who make better pure tanks, and Barbarians and Monks, who have better developed hybrid abilities. I tried rolling a DPS Paladin to take along with my current group and haven't been particularly impressed so far, but my main tanking Paladin has been quite satisfactory.

[DracoSpirit86]

They get nice auras, a early heal move (that scales badly, but kicks arse early on) and a late in battle raise move. Not really sure about all these on kill feats.... paladins aren't going to be doing the lion shares of killing.

[CriticalFailure]

No, they're not. Some classes are arguably stronger and some of the abilities are meh, but that doesn't mean paladins are -bad-. If you're struggling with one, you'll likely struggle with anything.

 

Valenwood is a hard area to solo at level 2; just follow the road and come back later with companions to complete it. You're not supposed to clear every area as soon as you can enter it.

[Brimsurfer]

Paladins are good , people playing them are bad , didnt pay much atention to This build but it seems bad from first look ,

paladin is not a killing machine he is a buffing tank who can also heal for emergencies meanwhile fighter is a tank that does nothing except tank so as long as paladin can survive as much or even better than fighter but fighter has no buffs paladin is just better tank in a 6 man party , plain and simple stop cry go play

 

Stop cry go play?

 

Who is crying here? I am only trying to get some info here.......so that I may know what I am getting into as a Paladin. I haven't made a single complaint, I am just trying to get some feedback on Paladins before I commit to play one.

 

Why would you say I am crying? I can only assume that you have just learned to speak English and you do not yet know the correct meanings of the words to use them in proper context, otherwise I can't imagine why you would say I am crying.........anyway pls be respectful or dont respond at all if you have to be this way, I have not given anyone any reason to respond to me in this manner

Edited April 13, 2015 by Brimsurfer

[ErlKing]

Paladin worse than fighter in tanking.

Paladin worse in dps than rogue/monk/barbarian.

Paladin worse in buffing/support than priest.

Paladin is absolute zero in crowd control.

 

But I kinda like playing paladin because:

 

Paladin better in tanking than anyone but fighter.

Paladin better in support than anyone but priest.

Paladin better in dps than... lets just say that they not so bad.

Most Paladin abilities are per encounter, so he is your go to go buff/heal/ressurect/antidebuff person.

Paladin being wisecrack by knighthood order rules just priceless ^^

 

Overall Paladin not that great, but having him/her in team is kinda nice.

Edited April 13, 2015 by ErlKing

[DracoSpirit86]

Seems better to have a paladin and a fighter than two of either tbh.

[Brimsurfer]

Hmm....so from the comments I gather that, Paladins basically have lots of defensive stats and some useful auras........however they don't deal out much damage and they have trouble holding aggro of multiple enemies....

 

How about dual-wielding paladins or paladins with two handed weapons? Has anyone tried one of those? I mean I sure would like to deal out at least some damage..... 

 

Also the Paladin would be my main character so I don't want to feel like a second rate party member, that's really important to me.....

Edited April 13, 2015 by Brimsurfer

[Akimbo]

Hmm....so from the comments I gather that, Paladins basically have lots of defensive stats and some useful auras........however they don't deal out much damage and they have trouble holding aggro of multiple enemies....

 

How about dual-wielding paladins or paladins with two handed weapons? Has anyone tried one of those? I mean I sure would like to deal out at least some damage..... 

 

Also the Paladin would be my main character so I don't want to feel like a second rate party member, that's really important to me.....

 

Paladins have no problem holding aggro, you don't even need the talents for holding aggro if your micro is quick enough.

 

If you really want to take a Paladin, the classic Sword & Board tank is probably your best bet. If you try and focus on damage, then you end up just being a bad warrior.

 

As a PC the Paladin gets his proper buffs to defenses, making him/her a powerful tank and with some decent gear choices, your damage won't be -bad-, just not great.

 

The biggest problem with a Paladin, is that they don't have anything that really sets them apart. Some weak buffs that don't always stack, some on-kill abilities that don't help because you'll rarely be doing the killing etc.

 

All that said, I run a non-PC Moon Godlike as my party tank. She holds aggro very well, especially with the self-heal and while she doesn't do a lot of damage, she can chip away at the enemies.

[eubatham]

From the PotD thread (and the person that completed the run);

 

 

Wow, thats quite impressive.
 
If it's doable with a paladin, I'd say it's probably doable with all classes.

 
Thank you very much!  And yes this is also what i think. At least it means that it's doable for all the Melee classes.

 

 

Secondly, calm down and use paragraphs.

Edited April 13, 2015 by eubatham

[KDubya]

The problem I see with paladins are that they have the following requirements: (on hard or below it probably does not matter and a paladin will be fine)

 

1.) Many abilities require getting the kill shot

2.) Getting the kill shot takes doing damage which is best with high accuracy, and might.

3.) Consistently getting the kill shot requires a fast attack rate which needs dex and less armor 

4.) Surviving in melee requires good deflection which needs perception and resolve, as well as good faith and conviction (which needs proper role play)

5.) Tanking the hits requires a good DR which is best with the heavier armor

6.) Aura radius's require intellect to have an OK range

 

Based on the above there are not any dump stats, every stat is useful and/or required for a Paladin. A fighter can dump intellect to 3 and spread the 7 points to where they need it, Barbs and monks can drop perception.

 

A paladin could mitigate the danger of melee by using reach weapons from behind a fighter or use ranged weapons, but both of these sort of lose the point of being on the frontline.

 

Maybe it is better to avoid the on kill abilities and concentrate on the buffs and heals which don't require a high DPS build. be more like a strong safety helping the team where needed instead of a blitzing linebacker..

 

It also depends on your party and how you plan on taking out the enemies. If you are also bringing a barbarian, cipher and a rogue, then the PC paladin as leader will be fine and whatever benefits he gets from getting a kill or two per encounter will just be gravy.

 

Personally I am a fan of damage spec'd fighters either two handed or dual wielding, with weapons spec and mastery with the wary defender modal as needed for additional engagements and 15 deflection, 10 resist. They can stabilize the frontline as well as deal out good single target damage and beat the monsters in attrition damage. 

[0rangekun]

All of the paladin hate circling around had me very hesitant to make one. They don't suck. I firmly believe they aren't where they should be, however. The auras need some work, for starters. Lay on Hands is just not worth taking. Liberating Exhortation should be stronger - it's per encounter, sure, but virtually every status ailment is an AoE, and Priests have an AoE Liberating Exhortation. With it being single target, it needs to either A) Remove ailments outright, not simply suspend them, or B) Grant immunity to further ailments for its duration.

 

After that, I think most of the other Exhortations are true to the idea (single target, powerful Ally buffs), though I'd love if there were a talent or upgrade of some kind which allowed the paladin to use their abilities on themselves.

 

All in all, it's not a bad class, but it's certainly outdone by others. Faith and Conviction is a cool idea, but it's frustrating because only the player character really makes it worthwhile because Pallegina, for example, doesn't get reputations, and so she can't enhance it beyond the base +5 Deflection, +10 Defenses. Considering Faith and Conviction is basically the entire reason that paladins are tanky (still not as tanky as a Fighter), that's a huge problem.

 

Finally, their Order-specific abilities need tweaking. They're not balanced, basically, and half of them are just awful or extremely niche in their uses.

 

tl;dr Paladin isn't bad.

 

Lay on Hands, Liberating Exhortation, Auras, Orders, and maybe their base Accuracy (they seem to be touted as elite, highly disciplined and organized knights, and yet they're no more accurate than a Chanter or Cipher?) all could use some adjusting, maybe.1

[0rangekun]

The problem I see with paladins are that they have the following requirements: (on hard or below it probably does not matter and a paladin will be fine)

 

1.) Many abilities require getting the kill shot

2.) Getting the kill shot takes doing damage which is best with high accuracy, and might.

3.) Consistently getting the kill shot requires a fast attack rate which needs dex and less armor 

4.) Surviving in melee requires good deflection which needs perception and resolve, as well as good faith and conviction (which needs proper role play)

5.) Tanking the hits requires a good DR which is best with the heavier armor

6.) Aura radius's require intellect to have an OK range

 

Based on the above there are not any dump stats, every stat is useful and/or required for a Paladin. A fighter can dump intellect to 3 and spread the 7 points to where they need it, Barbs and monks can drop perception.

 

A paladin could mitigate the danger of melee by using reach weapons from behind a fighter or use ranged weapons, but both of these sort of lose the point of being on the frontline.

 

Maybe it is better to avoid the on kill abilities and concentrate on the buffs and heals which don't require a high DPS build. be more like a strong safety helping the team where needed instead of a blitzing linebacker..

 

It also depends on your party and how you plan on taking out the enemies. If you are also bringing a barbarian, cipher and a rogue, then the PC paladin as leader will be fine and whatever benefits he gets from getting a kill or two per encounter will just be gravy.

 

Personally I am a fan of damage spec'd fighters either two handed or dual wielding, with weapons spec and mastery with the wary defender modal as needed for additional engagements and 15 deflection, 10 resist. They can stabilize the frontline as well as deal out good single target damage and beat the monsters in attrition damage. 

Covered a whole lot of points I forgot about while I was typing out my reply.

 

I haven't had any issue with my aura's radius, with 16 Intellect. I don't think I've ever had my ranged so far away that they don't benefit.

 

Definitely agree heavily on the on-kill effects. For a class that is extraordinarily bad at killing, it's immensely disappointing that they have several effects (and in my opinion, some of their most legitimately helpful effects) which require the paladin to land a kill. 

 

Maybe if you play a Bleak Walker Death Godlike paladin, either dual-wielding or rocking a two-hander, with 18 Might then you'll see killing blows with some reliability, but that's far too specific.

 

Edit: Oh, and the on-kill buffs you can trigger only affect allies, once again. That's not entirely a bad thing, given the paladin is like a supportive champion to the party, but it makes a mediocre class that much less appealing for, say, soloing. Impossible? Doubtful, but a solo paladin would lose the use of most of their abilities, and almost all of their good abilities.

Edited April 13, 2015 by 0rangekun

[gkathellar]

Watcher Paladins are fantastic pure tanks due to unequalled defenses, which is all that matters for a pure tank.

 

NPC paladins, on the other hand ... take a monk.

[Incendax]

I was planning to role play a real badass zealot. But I got my ass kicked even in the first tutorial map and the one after (Valenwood) and then I saw all these posts here on this forum talking about Paladins being underpowered specially in mid to late game, in comparison to other classes.........

I'm not sure what kind of tactics you are using. I absolutely stomped almost everything in the tutorial map and Valenwood with a solo paladin on PotD. Are you using your crossbow + Flames of Devotion to start every fight? That puts almost everything you fight at Badly Injured or Near Death before you get to it. Fast Runner means you can split the wolf camp easily, and then stomp the big wolf. Only the bears are a no-go.

 

If you need the extra help, go fight the skeletons in the Esternwood Cemetary. The body nearby has a chance to drop a Fine Arbalest, and then you can ONE SHOT a lot of the early game enemies like Spiderlings and Wicht and Skuldr.

[bonarbill]

They're fine.  It's just one person (Longknife) who hates the for arbitrary reasons based on a few number differences.

[CriticalFailure]

Definitely agree heavily on the on-kill effects. For a class that is extraordinarily bad at killing, it's immensely disappointing that they have several effects (and in my opinion, some of their most legitimately helpful effects) which require the paladin to land a kill.

See, it's because of statements like this that this thread exists. Some classes are better at killing, sure, but I fail to see how paladins are "extraordinarily bad" at it.

 

If you're going to take on-kill talents, I'd expect you to build the character accordingly. If you focus on defence, you'll likely be bad at killing, but that isn't exclusive to paladins (and you shouldn't be considering those talents in the first place anyway).

[general_azure]

Watcher Paladins are fantastic pure tanks due to unequalled defenses, which is all that matters for a pure tank.

 

NPC paladins, on the other hand ... take a monk.

 

Been wondering for a while, is it a bug or a feature that NPCs ignore party reputations?

[gkathellar]

 

 

Watcher Paladins are fantastic pure tanks due to unequalled defenses, which is all that matters for a pure tank.

 

NPC paladins, on the other hand ... take a monk.

Been wondering for a while, is it a bug or a feature that NPCs ignore party reputations?

It's a derp.

 

I could see it making sense for priests, but F&C is a huge part of a paladin's survivability.

[AncientToaster]

The Min/Maxers think Paladin's suck

 

Therefore they suck

 

/blatant sarcasm

[Mungri]

Using 2 fighters, 2 paladins, priest and wizard on Potd here and managing very well. I'm using the paladins ranged specced though for zealous auras, heals and buffs.