Companions attributes - Roleplay?

[BG4eva]

One of the best things with the BG NPCs, according to me, was their uniqueness compared to the PC. For example, Edwin had his amulet and Coran his illegal DEX score. They made sense in the given universe, Coran was an elf and skilled with a bow, Kagain was a sturdy dwarf and deserved his high hp. Basically, they werent min-maxed and it gave them flavour.

 

In Pillars of Eternity the companions *certainly* are not min-maxed, but to what avail?

 

Grieving Mother, who in story is supposed to be a very strong and skilled cipher, has no real stats to prove it? Her intellect is crap and her Might is only saved form the average 10 by being a human. Whats the deal? She has high perception, but that is not really indicative of her person or skills? I would imagine her to maybe have fewer points in resolve / constitution for more intellect or might... This can more or less be applied for all the NPCs in this game, their attributes tables are washed out and with no real differentiates or stand-outs. (Except for Eder who actually has a decent spread, both game and lore-wise).

 

Has anyone else thought about this? Do you even care about characters being represented in their stat-line? (I even punish my PC in ways that I feel would fit his character).

[k1rage]

yeah it seems like the devs went out of their way to make some of the NPCs crappy lol

[R.Alexander]

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same. I am hoping a mod can fix this eventually, or I can at least give them attributes I find better fits their character/background.

[Prime-Mover]

yeah it seems like the devs went out of their way to make some of the NPCs crappy lol

I don't mind that at all. It's more the odd distribution of stats, like Kana and Durgan's 'int'. It seems like they wrote the chars, gave them stats, and then changed them in beta to make them more playable. I imagine the writers simply weren't that familiar with the attribute and stat system when the wrote the chars, unlike when they worked with DnD with BG and IWD.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Prime-Mover

[Mungri]

As a powergamer, the NPCs horrify me. Like what kind of a noob created those in the first place?

 

Does a single one even have an 18 stat? Like in BG1, at least there was Minsc, Viconia, Edwin, all whom were super specced for their roles.

[Rosveen]

It's like they designed them around attribute names, not what the attributes actually do.

[Faerunner]

Aw, I was just thinking the other day that I rather like how the stats reflect the characters. For example, Aloth has high Perception and Intelligence since he's a learned scholar (wizards being this world's scientists and all), but doesn't have such great... anything else, since he's been pretty sheltered and indoors most of his life. Sagani has very high Perception since she's a tracker that's been searching for someone for 5 years, but her combat stats are just okay because she's probably more used to tracking and shooting at fleeing caribou and deer than fighting hostile adversaries. Eder, by contrast, is a salt-of-the-earth type who's toiled on a farm and fought in war before, so of course his stats would be more ideal for combat. I could go on.

 

I mean, I guess it's not the best combat-wise, but I'm playing on Easy, so it's not that big a deal. If six kith and two animal companions (since Sagani and my PC are rangers) bum rush the enemy and whale on them long enough, they'll eventually go down no matter how mediocre our stats are.

 

Still, I like how the characters are written, and how their starting loot, character portraits, and stats reflect it. I think it's clever gameplay/story integration, even if it's not useful combat-wise at higher difficulties.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Faerunner

[BG4eva]

Aw, I was just thinking the other day that I rather like how the stats reflect the characters. For example, Aloth has high Perception and Intelligence since he's a learned scholar (wizards being this world's scientists and all), but doesn't have such great... anything else, since he's been pretty sheltered and indoors most of his life. Sagani has very high Perception since she's a tracker that's been searching for someone for 5 years, but her combat stats are just okay because she's probably more used to tracking and shooting at fleeing caribou and deer than fighting hostile adversaries. Eder, by contrast, is a salt-of-the-earth type who's toiled on a farm and fought in war before, so of course his stats would be more ideal for combat. I could go on.

 

I mean, I guess it's not the best combat-wise, but I'm playing on Easy, so it's not that big a deal. If six kith and two animal companions (since Sagani and my PC are rangers) bum rush the enemy and whale on them long enough, they'll eventually go down no matter how mediocre our stats are.

 

Still, I like how the characters are written, and how their starting loot, character portraits, and stats reflect it. I think it's clever gameplay/story integration, even if it's not useful combat-wise at higher difficulties.

I guess that this isn't really what I agree with you on...

 

You did make me think abit differently about Saganis spread though. You do have some point in it I suppose, but I still feel like she should have more might since she is supposedly the best archer in her tribe (And she is a dwarf, they really arent weak.) As her strength is now, she is barely above average (10+ 2 for dwarf). I dont mind the chars being "gimped" in some areas as long as it makes sense...

 

I still really feel that the Grieving mother by far is the biggest offender to this. She is a hot mess in the stat-spread.

[sparklecat]

I was amazed that Sagani came with no points in athletics.  Really, game?  The huntress is not athletic?

[Horrorscope]

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same. I am hoping a mod can fix this eventually, or I can at least give them attributes I find better fits their character/background.

 

IE mod, mod their attributes.

[Ilxuss]

When I created my character I tried to make his attributes reflect how I imagined him, but this post made me curious to see how it was handled with companions in PoE. I'll check tomorrow.

To answer the question posed, I do care about stats representing my character.

[Mungri]

I was amazed that Sagani came with no points in athletics.  Really, game?  The huntress is not athletic?

 

Stands in a forest for days waiting for persoc ... Wait, without athletics? She must need a lot of camping supplies!

[Ilxuss]

I was amazed that Sagani came with no points in athletics.  Really, game?  The huntress is not athletic?

We know that she has been looking for somebody for 5 years at the moment we meet her, let's say it took her year to get into area and another before she started waiting. It hypothetically leaves her standing in one place for 3 years!

If you stood in one place, barely moving for 3 years you wouldn't be fit either. :D

[Ardan Reddy]

 

Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same. I am hoping a mod can fix this eventually, or I can at least give them attributes I find better fits their character/background.

 

IE mod, mod their attributes.

 

You change their attributes in the console, whether using IE mod or not.

However, what the IE mod does allow is respeccing of their abilities and talents by setting them to level 0, then using default console commands to level them back up again.

Also, using the IE mod prevents the need to input iroll20s before any 'cheat' commands, so achievements aren't disabled (for anyone that cares). 

[falchen]

Actually the companions were designed when perception sitll gave accuracy so it wasn't such a dump stat for non-tanks.

 

That said, with the patch that changed them the only one with actually bad stats now is Grieving mother in my opinion. The rest are quite useable. Talent selection could still use work though, currently it just encourages you to rush to them at the lowest level so they don't screw themselves up too badly..

[Rosbjerg]

Actually the companions were designed when perception sitll gave accuracy so it wasn't such a dump stat for non-tanks.

That said, with the patch that changed them the only one with actually bad stats now is Grieving mother in my opinion.

 

This is my experience as well, although it don't feel their talents are that much of a disaster that you have to run to them. But then, it's like that with most games I've played. The NPCs are specced towards the most common playing types, while people with different or alternative methods will find them wanting.

[Lasci]

The companions are fine. The attributes in Pillars of Eternity don't lend themselves towards needing to be min/maxed. In general, most classes are more gear-dependent than they are attribute dependent, and the small difference in each point of a stat make it so that the NPC's perform perfectly fine in practice despite looking abysmal at a glance. For instance, 3% of a damage value that's generally no larger than ~45 at the high end for weapons really isn't much of an increase.

[BG4eva]

The companions are fine. The attributes in Pillars of Eternity don't lend themselves towards needing to be min/maxed. In general, most classes are more gear-dependent than they are attribute dependent, and the small difference in each point of a stat make it so that the NPC's perform perfectly fine in practice despite looking abysmal at a glance. For instance, 3% of a damage value that's generally no larger than ~45 at the high end for weapons really isn't much of an increase.

Even if they are "fine" (which i guess I agree on, they are all workable), they bring boring stat lines that often dont match with their persona or perceived power through lore.

 

It is like if Minsc had 11 strength and 16 intellect, it would not go with his theme.