Roleplaying with the Might attribute

[Heijoushin]

So... might represents physical AND magical strength, right?

 

But in the dialogue, its always used as a physical thing (like "pick him up and shake him like a rag doll"). I'm playing an otherwise delicate and fragile female wizard, but I always get options to beat people up physically!

 

So as a mechanic it works, but roleplaying wise, its just too ambigious.

 

How about for wizards, it changes to a threat to change the guy into a toad or something?

[ErlKing]

Imagine you picking him up and shaking Darth Vader style.

Edited April 7, 2015 by ErlKing

[knownastherat]

Perhaps not as delicate, perhaps compulsive with issues? Might goes mysterious ways ..

[Phoynix]

Obsidion dropped the ball on MIGHT... totally screwed the pooch....

I didnt play Beta despite having access because I wanted a complete old style experience...

I never liked the might idea... but I assumed the game would base might on Physcial/Magic depdent on char... but it doesnt...

 

Really wishing I had played beta so I could have kicked up a stink...

Edited April 7, 2015 by Phoynix

[Ichthyic]

 

I didnt play Beta despite having access because I wanted a complete old style experience...

you realize why that is never, ever going to happen again, right?

 

WoTC is the one who screwed the pooch on this... ages ago.

 

it's time for an enitrely new fantasy battle system, and I'm actually hoping this game bridges that gap... eventually.

 

it's about halfway there I think.  next generation game will probably see something new and solid.

 

 

[Phoynix]

What is it with people on these forums always assuming D&D...

 

I dont have a problem with SATS NOT being D&D like, I want them CONSISTANT.

 

MIGHT as its implemented is HORRIBLE and makes NO SENSE, it is neither consistant logcially or in the game world.

 

Obsidion could have tried to make it consistant... by making backlore that magic takes a physical toll on the body, and so magic users are often far fitter and stronger then even warriors to master such energies.... but it does not... and it sounds kind of stupid...

Yet that is what the might stat has created in POE.

 

Magic users that wish to cast powerful spells are hulking musclemen that can snap you like a friggin twig with their bare hands.

 

This is the actual implementaion of might in POE.

 

The problem with many games after the 90s was they didnt provide a consistant world... and favoured action over story...

This is what I mean by OLD style experience it has nothing to do with D&D, infact most D&D games were RPG light action dungeon crawlers not true RPG's in the sense they provided a deep and intensive story.

 

The attribute system in POE was not thought out properly, infact I dare say in an attempt to distance themselves from D&D they messed crap up.

 

POE is "old style" story telling... the Baulders gates games were not great because they were based on D&D system they were great because of the story they told... the D&D system was however consistant in the game world.

Might is not consistant, it is jarring when you try to RP a mage... try to emerge yourself in the story only to have a scripted event where your mage does some superman physical feat... and you laugh at the stupidity of it...

 

 

 

I didnt play Beta despite having access because I wanted a complete old style experience...

you realize why that is never, ever going to happen again, right?

WoTC is the one who screwed the pooch on this... ages ago.

it's time for an enitrely new fantasy battle system, and I'm actually hoping this game bridges that gap... eventually.

it's about halfway there I think.  next generation game will probably see something new and solid.

 

 

[Shadenuat]

- Make a little female elvish healer, like a mouse

- Has to have high Mig to heal

- Have most of dialogue options swarming with options like "Grab the ****er and lift him up and beat the information out of him", or "Break servant's arm and throw him of the floor" or "Grope the prostitute and take the quest item from her by force"

-

 

Want a cleric with high CHA? Screw you, tank stat. Wanna one with high WIS? Screw you, also a tank stat.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Shadenuat

[ErlKing]

You all forgetting one more thing - firearms damage scale with might... totally understandable.

[Phoynix]

Bothers me less, you can just claim that the stronger a person is the more powder then can stick in the gun because they can better handle the kick.

 

Thats the thing... many many things a person can explain away if they want... come up with some logcial reason they can swallow... but might working for both physical/magic is not with how its implemented.

You all forgetting one more thing - firearms damage scale with might... totally understandable.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Phoynix

[Vasya]

 

Obsidion could have tried to make it consistant... by making backlore that magic takes a physical toll on the body, and so magic users are often far fitter and stronger then even warriors to master such energies.... but it does not... and it sounds kind of stupid...

 

 

Not this explanation, nor reverse one (practicing magic makes you stronger, because you absorb some kind of stupid energy) would not make it consistant, since you still can be useful mage without might.

[knownastherat]

You all forgetting one more thing - firearms damage scale with might... totally understandable.

 

Every damage scales with Might. That is how the mechanic is designed. It allows for, for example, caster who is not able to do damage but is able to crowd control plus something else, like be mobile. The system in place has law, order and purpose. It just goes against prejudices that, for example, Might is by the laws of nature physical strength and even contributes to appearance. No, Might allows for damage. Dexterity is not for defense but for speed, etc.  

 

It does not make sense, it does not make sense! Indeed, apparently to some it does not.

[Darkcloud1987]

I Agree. The Might atribute is the best instance to show that the stats are designed for game balance and not for roleplaying. 

[Vasya]

 

It does not make sense, it does not make sense! Indeed, apparently to some it does not.

 

So, if you were game character in poe, how high would be your might?

[Rosbjerg]

You all forgetting one more thing - firearms damage scale with might... totally understandable.

 

One way to interpret that is; that it's easier to aim/stabilize a heavy weapon when you're strong - better aim means hitting where it hurts.

 

And why is it inconsistent that might is required to cast spells, if the lore explains that magic requires strength? That seems perfectly consistent to me....

[knownastherat]

 

 

It does not make sense, it does not make sense! Indeed, apparently to some it does not.

 

So, if you were game character in poe, how high would be your might?

 

 

Am I to somehow project myself into the game?

 

Lets say the guy with cool hair, Kim Jong-un. He has might around 19. Intelligence around 3 however.

[Caerdon]

Might makes totally sense if we simply assume that in the world of Eternity magic can be easily used to augment physical strength and to "charge" weapons and projectiles. That's it. Problem solved.

[Vasya]

 

And why is it inconsistent that might is required to cast spells, if the lore explains that magic requires strength? That seems perfectly consistent to me....

 

Because it does not really requires strength. Might does not affect amount of spells available or effectiveness of non-damaging spells, only damage. I cant think of any believable explanation.

Maybe, after conjuring fireball, you need to throw it manually with great force, for it to deal great damage?

[gkathellar]

Everything in PoE runs on soul power. Physical strength results from having spiritual strength.

 

It's not that spells are powered by muscle, but that muscles and spells are powered by the same thing.

[Phoynix]

Wrong, in the actual game MIGHT is always considered physical strength.

 

Thats the problem, if you are going to ignore how it actually functions dont get involed in a discussion.

 

 

You all forgetting one more thing - firearms damage scale with might... totally understandable.

 

Every damage scales with Might. That is how the mechanic is designed. It allows for, for example, caster who is not able to do damage but is able to crowd control plus something else, like be mobile. The system in place has law, order and purpose. It just goes against prejudices that, for example, Might is by the laws of nature physical strength and even contributes to appearance. No, Might allows for damage. Dexterity is not for defense but for speed, etc.  

 

It does not make sense, it does not make sense! Indeed, apparently to some it does not.

 

[Varana]

Umm... that's what he said?

 

You're a person with a mighty soul. (Sounds ... strange, though.)

 

That means that you automatically have both physical and magical strength. You can't separate the two. You can't get one without the other.

 

Now whether that's a good idea, is quite another question.

Or whether it's been executed always consistently.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Varana

[knownastherat]

As I said, its not problem for me that there seems to be inconsistency in dialogues for you. I do not have problem with tiny Wizard lifting people. She can cast flames ffs! Lifting she does when she gets bored.  

 

You can repeat WRONG WRONG I don't mind. The system is working and I could not care less if damage comes from Mig or Int. I just need to know where it comes from. This is a game.

Edited April 7, 2015 by knownastherat

[koski]

The thing about ROLEPLAYING is that even though you got an option to lift the guy as a flimsy elven wizard, you don't pick that dialogue option. Just as you do not pick the [Attack] option when you're playing a diplomatic character. Just because it pops there as a dialogue option does not mean you have to select it. A lot of the options in the game are there to mold your character. The ones displayed in dialogue do not represent the character you play, until you actually click on them.

[Vadász]

An easy fix would be to replace Might dialogue checks with Althetism checks. You would still get some dialogue choices since most put at least 3 points there but bending bars would be out of the question.

[Dead Optimist]

I find it funny how you can have a fighter with a might of 2 be an incredible tank that takes beatings for days. Sure, he can barely life up his fork to eat, but boy can he take a punch and dodge like hell in that heavy full plate armour and full body shield...

 

I understand why the stats affect what they do, and I think it gives fine game balance, but I do think there should have been a clearer divide between the magical and the physical generally, for RP/immersion/lore/etc. reasons.

[knownastherat]

Should be should be not .. that is not the world presented to us. In this world there is no clear divide. In this world fighter does not just stand there with shield being healed by healer and mage stands far back abusing AI casting. There is no truth to be found. If immersion is broken is because of ignorance of this world.

 

Its not funny that fighter can have 2 Mig. 2 Mig is not 2 kg as it seems to be in the Right imaginary world. 2 Mig is 85 kg for all we know. And whether he can wear full plate or not, again, anyone in this world can. Immersion in what? Not in this world. In imaginary world known from elsewhere.