Alright Obsidian, there's really only ONE problem with this game

[Luj1]

Forget about most bugs, limerick stones, messed up attributes or auto-leveling companions. (Obviously you really need to fix Raedric's Hold bug and the Sanitarium.) But this is all fixable and some are really trivial. Everything else e.g. certain design decisions are a matter of taste.

 

 

 

 

But there is one thing that is most noticeable of all, and has the biggest impact on the game.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. Outrageous. Class. and Race. Balance.

 

 

 

 

Seriously.

 

 

 

 

I only make Moon Godlikes. And Orlans. And I only make Ciphers, Chanters, Fighters and Druids. Sometimes Priests.

 

 

 

 

 

Why would I make a barbarian? Or ranger? Or monk? Or a dwarf? Or a human? Or an elf? Role play reasons? So the game can give me cancer? No thanks. If I want cancer Ill just go play Temple of Elemental Evil or Wizardry 8. Or Dota 2 for that matter.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you see the problem here Obsidian? We were promised balance dammit

 

 

 

 

 

PS this is a fantastic game that , I believe, will become legend and assume its place next to Wasteland 2 (and Tides of Numenera!) in this era of reborn RPG games.

[Monte Carlo]

Ciphers and Chanters are odd, quirky, home-brewed and too-kool-for-skool classes that had to be favoured above the classes of yore.

 

The old classes are from The Times Before and are dejenerative. Probably.

 

Fighters had to be optimal to throw my previous point off-balance and defy expectations (although the less-than-mighty fighter screams Birkenstocks and Northern Californian Volvo driver lojick). Druids always sucked, so had to be given the odd facial hair and craft-beer treatment too.

 

Post-modern CRPGs, eh?

[Bryy]

The old classes are from The Times Before and are dejenerative. Probably.

PoE ultimately, to me, felt like it spawned from way too many compromises among the dev team.

[Monte Carlo]

Bryy please expand. Am interested in your view.

[Emptiness]

Forget about most bugs, limerick stones, messed up attributes or auto-leveling companions. (Obviously you really need to fix Raedric's Hold bug and the Sanitarium.) But this is all fixable and some are really trivial. Everything else e.g. certain design decisions are a matter of taste.

 

But there is one thing that is most noticeable of all, and has the biggest impact on the game.

 

Absolutely. Outrageous. Class. and Race. Balance.

 

Seriously.

 

I only make Moon Godlikes. And Orlans. And I only make Ciphers, Chanters, Fighters and Druids. Sometimes Priests.

 

Why would I make a barbarian? Or ranger? Or monk? Or a dwarf? Or a human? Or an elf? Role play reasons? So the game can give me cancer? No thanks. If I want cancer Ill just go play Temple of Elemental Evil or Wizardry 8. Or Dota 2 for that matter.

 

Do you see the problem here Obsidian? We were promised balance dammit

 

Balance is not the same thing as all things being equally to every single person's preferences.  So while I agree that there are imbalances, I disagree with the idea that it is possible to remove them all, and also with the implication that because one person only uses a subset of the races and classes that there is a problem.

[DocDoomII]

Maybe you could play them because you like them?

 

I always play a ranger or archer class, never bothered to see where in the scale of power such class is in the games I'm playing.

[k1rage]

I would have preferred D&D 3.5, not that it was possible but meh 

[Monte Carlo]

The OP is clearly an irrepressible munchkin, but apart from that he is on the right track. Munchkinism is a noble calling, and utterly necessary in stress-testing the mechanics.

[k1rage]

Maybe you could play them because you like them?

 

I always play a ranger or archer class, never bothered to see where in the scale of power such class is in the games I'm playing.

its hard for many folks to like a class the is clearly under powered

[Luj1]

 I disagree with the idea that it is possible to remove them all,

 

I never said that.

 

 

 

 because one person only uses a subset of the races and classes that there is a problem.

 

 

Its not one person i.e. myself. Tons of people are opting for those choices due to getting disappointed or anally raped.

[DocDoomII]

 

Maybe you could play them because you like them?

 

I always play a ranger or archer class, never bothered to see where in the scale of power such class is in the games I'm playing.

its hard for many folks to like a class the is clearly under powered

 

I like the idea of the class, not the damage output.

[Monte Carlo]

Hmmm I like both. Saying that I'm playing a DPS barbarian and a hopelessly outclassed light-fighter paladin. Both are broken in their own way, something apparently it's impossible to do. The PoE meta makes a mockery of the 'no wrong decisions' design philosophy.

[Bollockoff]

Chanters are rock stars. Deal with it.

[k1rage]

 

 

Maybe you could play them because you like them?

 

I always play a ranger or archer class, never bothered to see where in the scale of power such class is in the games I'm playing.

its hard for many folks to like a class the is clearly under powered

 

I like the idea of the class, not the damage output.

 

I know what you mean but if the class is clearly underpowered I cant play it even if I like the I idea/lore behind it, I feel as if im intentionally hamstring myself, something my brain will not allow me to do

[DocDoomII]

Whatever.

[Voss]

Chanters are rock stars. Deal with it.

Useless degenerates?

[Luj1]

The OP is clearly an irrepressible munchkin, but apart from that he is on the right track. Munchkinism is a noble calling, and utterly necessary in stress-testing the mechanics.

 

 

Hehehehe no offense taken buddy ! :D  ... If by munchkin you mean power-gamer . And you are completely right about the second sentence.

 

 

I love power-gaming and RPing with equal fervor... I love to RP too, but in games that allow it. In Pillars of Eternity you get tumours for trying to Role Play  

 

Oh I feel like playing an evil dwarf monk, lets see how that will work out ... *stumbles upon 4 Feral druids

Edited April 6, 2015 by Luj1

[Xavori]

Ciphers and Chanters are odd, quirky, home-brewed and too-kool-for-skool classes that had to be favoured above the classes of yore.

 

 

Ciphers might very well be the single most OP class in the game.  They effectively have unlimted spellcasting and insanely powerful control abilities.  More than one fight I had consisted of me beating the hell out of critters that never fought back after GM got her first spell off.

 

Chanters are pretty up there in power as well given that they're in a party and not solo.  Nothing like buffing the attack rate of all your ranged toons, or providing an endless stream of summoned critters, or having an AoE rez, or constant AoE damage, etc.

[Luj1]

I would have preferred D&D 3.5, not that it was possible but meh 

 

 

Amen... the most optimal edition IMO

 

 

I think they loosely based PoE's system off AD&D 4.... which I never grew fond of.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Luj1

[k1rage]

My chanter is great in long fights almost useless against most trash mobs as the fight is over before they can cast

[k1rage]

 

I would have preferred D&D 3.5, not that it was possible but meh 

 

 

Amen... the most optimal edition IMO

 

 

I think they loosely based PoE's system off AD&D 4.... which I never grew fond of.

 

Omg dont get me started on what they did to 4.0.... it ruined D&D for me. 3.5 for life

[Luj1]

My chanter is great in long fights almost useless against most trash mobs as the fight is over before they can cast

 

 

Yup chanters excel at long fights... trash mobs are easily dealt with anyway

Edited April 6, 2015 by Luj1

[Bollockoff]

 

Chanters are rock stars. Deal with it.

Useless degenerates?

 

 

That speak to the soul.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5rvBtjsLY

[Bollockoff]

I'd have not complained if all Phrases and Invocations were Iron Maiden lyrics.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I know what you mean but if the class is clearly underpowered I cant play it even if I like the I idea/lore behind it, 

 

Even if it's perfectly viable, despite not being as good as Class X?

 

Game balance isn't really about making every choice equal, it's about making every choice worth taking.

Edited April 6, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid