PoTD with no AI abuse

[Vadász]

So, i'm more a RPer than a Gamer so i decided to go for another PoTD run but this time only by "playing fair" (No enemy group splitting, no door blocking unless it seemed logical, no pre-positioning, no return to town to get more supplies, etc) and so far while it's not impossible with enough reloads however it kinda seems to defeat the point of it all because it looks that i end up winning when AI makes something stupid or i get a couple of lucky crits.

 

I just wonder, was PoTD not meant to be played with way at all? Or it's just that i need more practice and better tactics (And maybe adventurers instead of obsidian NPCs)?

[Exoduss]

Hiring proper fighters might help yes alot 

[I am Catharsis]

It all depends on what difficulty mode you're playing on.

 

If you wanna be 100% RP, nothing prevent you from playing Easy with the charcter of your choice and doing some "fair" fights.

 

If you wanna go in PoTD (which seems to be your focus), well... Talking about stats only, all those D&D look-alike games are based on the fact that your main characters have nothing but the same stats as the monsters you encounters. Even worse sometimes. So yeah, if you wanna 1v1 a Bear with your freshly made hero, you can try. The thing is you're gonna have to reload the fight 100 times to have the "pefect" fight where your hero dodge every single attack and crits on every hit.

 

But honeslty, i think that this mode is made to push the game mechanics to the limits, including IA "abuse".

[knownastherat]

No

 

If you are RPer how does difficulty matter? Setting the game to lowest difficulty probably allows for some YOLO style, but part of PoTD difficulty is knowledge of advanced mechanics, use of buffs or terrain by design else there would be no replay ability.

[Lasci]

You don't have to abuse the AI to beat PotD. What do you consider AI abuse? Starting an encounter and retreating to a bottleneck?

[Ninjerk]

You don't have to abuse the AI to beat PotD. What do you consider AI abuse? Starting an encounter and retreating to a bottleneck?

Apparently 

 

Real men don't use tactics.

[invizo]

Lol bottlenecks are not AI abuse.

 

Any patriot American knows that walking into the fields blindly in clean rows is suicide, guerilla tactics are legitimate tactics, and they are the reason we don't speak British ;p.

[Vadász]

I don't want to criticize people that play this way, i even finished PotD using the "retreat to bottleneck" strategy a lot, but i just find is so repetitive and mechanic that by mid game i was actively avoiding encounters that did not give decent loot or were part of a quest.

 

Still whether or not it's abuse matters not, i just want to get some tips to fight them in the open, because it's not fun to do it again i like the challenge of facing some enemies in the open, and as i said in my original post i want to know if it's doable with obsidian NPCs and good tactics or not.

 

I do however want to say that saying it ain't abuse because it's a valid strategy IRL too is a bit of a fallacy. The AI can't into bottlenecks, IRL noone would do stupid things the AI do like:

 

*If they have a bunch of melee guys they just pile up waiting to die, in reality they would push our tank until they got though or they would switch to reach/ranged weapons if they are intelligent creatures. I swear once i saw an with a pike engaging my tank while their beefy guy just waited in the back.

*The spellcasters are suicidal and just stand there in the open, instead of hiding outside your view.

*Incorporeals like spirits should just go straight though the walls.

*Many enemies should just not bite the bait, specially if they were guarding a place.

*Many times i used as a bottleneck a place that the AI could easily go around and yet they never do it.

[Daemonjax]

The AI can't into bottlenecks, IRL noone would do stupid things the AI do like:

 

*If they have a bunch of melee guys they just pile up waiting to die, in reality they would push our tank until they got though or they would switch to reach/ranged weapons if they are intelligent creatures. I swear once i saw an with a pike engaging my tank while their beefy guy just waited in the back.

*The spellcasters are suicidal and just stand there in the open, instead of hiding outside your view.

*Incorporeals like spirits should just go straight though the walls.

*Many enemies should just not bite the bait, specially if they were guarding a place.

*Many times i used as a bottleneck a place that the AI could easily go around and yet they never do it.

 

But that's the game given to us by the developers -- who created the environments and hand-placed the encounters.

 

Any tactic is valid sans exploits, but what each person considers an exploit will differ.  Some will draw the line at "what the developers intended" (whatever that means to them) while the counter-arguement is "since we can't know the developer's mind, everything currently possible should be considered intended unless they explicitly state otherwise via official announcement or patch".

 

if we're voting, then I would say it's a valid tactic until they come out and say, "Hey guys, we never considered anyone would try to use choke points defensively in our carefully planned encounters."  Which would be pretty silly.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Daemonjax

[knownastherat]

Just don't worry about it (difficulty level) and play the one that suits you. Whatever everyone does, does not have to concern you. PotD is not meant to walk in, press few abilities and win. Tip on loading screen confirms it.  It requires planning and effort, some of the stuff mentioned in OP included.

[Daemonjax]

So, i'm more a RPer than a Gamer so i decided to go for another PoTD run but this time only by "playing fair" (No enemy group splitting, no door blocking unless it seemed logical, no pre-positioning, no return to town to get more supplies, etc) and so far while it's not impossible with enough reloads however it kinda seems to defeat the point of it all because it looks that i end up winning when AI makes something stupid or i get a couple of lucky crits.

 

I just wonder, was PoTD not meant to be played with way at all? Or it's just that i need more practice and better tactics (And maybe adventurers instead of obsidian NPCs)?

 

I'd say it's not intended to be played that way, and your lack of success while trying to is a good thing.

 

Consider the alternative:

 

On highest difficulty, you consistently succeed while playing badly.

 

What would that say about the game?

Edited April 6, 2015 by Daemonjax

[Odd Hermit]

Some things are entirely valid strategies, they only seem like abuse because the AI can't handle them. Encounters and AI scripts just need to be better.

 

And on a difficulty where there are more enemies with higher stats, it just seems obvious that part of a good strategy to dealing with that is divide and conquer.

[Vadász]

You guys i totally understand what you are saying

 

But that's the game given to us by the developers -- who created the environments and hand-placed the encounters.

 

Any tactic is valid sans exploits, but what each person considers an exploit will differ.  Some will draw the line at "what the developers intended" (whatever that means to them) while the counter-arguement is "since we can't know the developer's mind, everything currently possible should be considered intended unless they explicitly state otherwise via official announcement or patch".

 

if we're voting, then I would say it's a valid tactic until they come out and say, "Hey guys, we never considered anyone would try to use choke points defensively in our carefully planned encounters."  Which would be pretty silly.

 

 

I don't think i ever used the word exploit, AI abuse is clearly something developers intended for those plaiyng PotD, my response was for those that argued it was valid because it's a valid strategy IRL. But i never wanted to turn this into a discussion about how "honest" is abusing the AI, i just wanted to know if people had any success not doing it.

 

 

 

I'd say it's not intended to be played that way, and your lack of success while trying to is a good thing.

 

Consider the alternative:

 

On highest difficulty, you consistently succeed while playing badly.

 

What would that say about the game?

 

 

That is casual bull, however, i'm not saying that PotD is too hard or anything, i just wished it would challenge in a way that i don't end up using the same strategy over and over.

 

 

Just don't worry about it (difficulty level) and play the one that suits you. Whatever everyone does, does not have to concern you. PotD is not meant to walk in, press few abilities and win. Tip on loading screen confirms it.  It requires planning and effort, some of the stuff mentioned in OP included.

 

My problem is that hard is not that is not that hard once you learn how everything works, PotD however forced me into playing in a way that i don't really enjoy, and i think it's because at times there are so many enemies on screen that it's impossible to fight them all at once. I may have to go and pester the mod guys to release a difficulty mode that has the amount of enemies in hard with PotD stats.

[knownastherat]

What works for me are smaller parties. Easier to manage and from role playing perspective it could also make sense. When I play fighter I hang around healer for example. Also get to know classes and characters themselves more thoroughly. You have tools, use them to your liking.

[Aqvamare]

If you play PotD in a 6 man selfmade group, you can play fair.

 

If you play it solo, you need to be better than the best (cheesy)

[Daemonjax]

...i just wished it would challenge in a way that i don't end up using the same strategy over and over.

 

Yeah, that would be cool, but the encounters would have to be designed differently (paying close attention to terrain) and monsters would need more unique abilities (besides more teleport).  I don't think it's something that can be done with mods in this engine (besides adding more teleport), but I'd like for someone to prove me wrong.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Daemonjax

[Exoduss]

AI abuse sometimes just happens naturally in this game for example when i reached Stronghold yard on PoTD first group of shades reckt me many times untill once they just died easily for no reason then i noticed that one of the wilowisps is still at the back chilling that was all it took for encounter to end in 5 seconds and i really got wiped out hard before this happened atleast 3 times 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Exoduss