Cant set more than 1 trap (fix plz)

[Yenkins]

 

I have half a brain.  How else am I going to get Celestial Fury right out of Irenicus's dungeon?

 

Trap early, trap often.

 

The trap limit is an unfortunate artifice.  If they wanted to limit traps, they should've had trap disarming only result in partial salvage of trap components (requiring traps to be built from the necessary components before they could be utilized).

 

Also, add a full encumbrance system (weight and bulk), make trap components not necessarily something one could stockpile in excessive quantities because of either quality, and lose the stash (replace with a pack mule system or something reasonably "immersive").

 

And get rid of wizards, they're too much.

 

So you want to add a completely unfun feature like encumbrance yet limiting traps is not ok. Haha.

 

Traps are useful free damage as is and if you want to spam 6 of them (which will completely win 95% of the encounters in game) take mechanics all on your party members.

 

If you want to spam 30 traps then mod. 

 

People proposed elegant solution where you can put more traps if Mechanics level is high enough.

 

 

Also if, god forbid, we would have the freedom to use items we gather as we please there is a simple solution for you to avoid spamming traps to have "zero challenges" skirmishes...

 

 

Just don't do it

 

 

Crazy idea, I know xD

Edited April 8, 2015 by Yenkins

[b0rsuk]

If you could set multiple traps per encounter, that would literally be "pay to win".

 

If you couldn't kill it with a trap, you'd need to use more. Sounds like violence. Or XML.

 

 

Another issue with traps is that they seem to be avoided quite easily, even if laid at choke points. I am playing on hard difficulty.

 

This is actually a great reason NOT to have trap farming. What would you do if some of your traps fail to trigger ? That's right, you'd disarm them and put them back in your inventory. Next encounter, you're setting 30 traps. 10 of them go off, you disarm 20 traps. Repetition, farming, grinding. If you want a MMO, you know where to find it.

 

This is consistent with the game's design. Pre-buffing with potions before combat is not possible. The same arguments that are used for trap spamming in this thread could be used to justify pre-buffing with potions. But but but you don't have to do that ! But it's a single player game ! But you pay money and resources for potions ! But but but it takes time ! The common theme here is: no rituals before combat.

 

 

People proposed elegant solution where you can put more traps if Mechanics level is high enough.

 

This is already in the game. You just need to have these skill points on separate characters.

Edited April 8, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Luckmann]

The comparison many make to the IE games (mostly BG2) is simply not appropriate. Traps are a limited resource in Pillars of Eternity, and limiting them is much like limiting how many potions you can use in combat.

Yeah, you can pay for more traps, but have you seen the price of those things? If you are willing to pour that much money into it, it is really not that different than to buy better gear or buying powerful potions.

I see no reason to restrict the use of traps completely. The most reasonable thing would probably be to limit the number of traps someone can use at any one time by 1 per 2 or 3 points of the Mechanics skill.

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

 

I have half a brain.  How else am I going to get Celestial Fury right out of Irenicus's dungeon?

 

Trap early, trap often.

 

The trap limit is an unfortunate artifice.  If they wanted to limit traps, they should've had trap disarming only result in partial salvage of trap components (requiring traps to be built from the necessary components before they could be utilized).

 

Also, add a full encumbrance system (weight and bulk), make trap components not necessarily something one could stockpile in excessive quantities because of either quality, and lose the stash (replace with a pack mule system or something reasonably "immersive").

 

And get rid of wizards, they're too much.

 

So you want to add a completely unfun feature like encumbrance yet limiting traps is not ok. Haha.

 

Traps are useful free damage as is and if you want to spam 6 of them (which will completely win 95% of the encounters in game) take mechanics all on your party members.

 

If you want to spam 30 traps then mod. 

 

People proposed elegant solution where you can put more traps if Mechanics level is high enough.

 

 

Also if, god forbid, we would have the freedom to use items we gather as we please there is a simple solution for you to avoid spamming traps to have "zero challenges" skirmishes...

 

 

Just don't do it

 

 

Crazy idea, I know xD

 

 

A solution to a problem that doesn't exist. 

[b0rsuk]

The comparison many make to the IE games (mostly BG2) is simply not appropriate. Traps are a limited resource in Pillars of Eternity, and limiting them is much like limiting how many potions you can use in combat.

 

Yeah, you can pay for more traps, but have you seen the price of those things? If you are willing to pour that much money into it, it is really not that different than to buy better gear or buying powerful potions.

 

I see no reason to restrict the use of traps completely. The most reasonable thing would probably be to limit the number of traps someone can use at any one time by 1 per 2 or 3 points of the Mechanics skill.

 

Money is practically infinite in Pillars of Eternity. Number of eternity (and so the number of traps you can place) is limited. You can farm money forever once you have your stronghold. Raids, taxes, even selling stuff from Curio Shop and Botanical Garden. Do you like grinding ? Soon you would have to filter threads about most efficient gold farming etc.

Edited April 8, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Yenkins]

 

People proposed elegant solution where you can put more traps if Mechanics level is high enough.

 

This is already in the game. You just need to have these skill points on separate characters.

Hoy joyful... instead of one skilled engineer we have full squad of PhDs and tons of completely unnecessary play with equipment slots.

 

 

 

 

Also if, god forbid, we would have the freedom to use items we gather as we please there is a simple solution for you to avoid spamming traps to have "zero challenges" skirmishes...

 

 

Just don't do it

 

 

Crazy idea, I know xD

 

 

A solution to a problem that doesn't exist. 

 

 

And here you are whining over people wanting to have zero challenge that doesn't exist, which if present, could be easily avoided. GG.

[b0rsuk]

 

And here you are whining over people wanting to have zero challenge that doesn't exist, which if present, could be easily avoided. GG.

 

 

I don't want to even share a forum with people who like grinding!

[Yenkins]

It s not your place to judge how someone wants to play. Players need freedom to roleplay.

[PIP-Clownboy]

It s not your place to judge how someone wants to play. Players need freedom to roleplay.

 

Freedom to roleplay has nothing to do with spamming 50 traps at once. 

 

But you do have the freedom to type iroll20s into the console, which is the equivalent. 

[Atheosis]

Allowing setting 50 traps to make an encounter trivial would be absurd design. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this.

 

On the other hand being able to place only one feels absurdly limiting.  I think there's a middle ground that can be found.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Atheosis

[Daemonjax]

Would be cool if rogues could use traps better than anyone else (damage boost).  That class needs help.

[Atheosis]

Would be cool if rogues could use traps better than anyone else (damage boost).  That class needs help.

 

Rogues are good.  I don't think they need any help.  But giving them trap bonuses to damage and trap count would be nice.

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

Allowing setting 50 traps to make an encounter trivial would be absurd design. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this.

 

On the other hand being able to place only one feels absurdly limiting.  I think there's a middle ground that can be found.

 

 

A free level 4-6 spell with super accuracy. Is real good. 

[Atheosis]

 

 

Allowing setting 50 traps to make an encounter trivial would be absurd design. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this.

 

On the other hand being able to place only one feels absurdly limiting.  I think there's a middle ground that can be found.

 

 

A free level 4-6 spell with super accuracy. Is real good. 

 

 

Their damage isn't even remotely close to the spells they mimic, so your point is invalid.

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

 

 

Allowing setting 50 traps to make an encounter trivial would be absurd design. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this.

 

On the other hand being able to place only one feels absurdly limiting.  I think there's a middle ground that can be found.

 

 

A free level 4-6 spell with super accuracy. Is real good. 

 

 

Their damage isn't even remotely close to the spells they mimic, so your point is invalid.

 

 

Traps often have more effect than just damage. Which makes your point invalid. 

[Atheosis]

 

 

 

 

Allowing setting 50 traps to make an encounter trivial would be absurd design. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see this.

 

On the other hand being able to place only one feels absurdly limiting.  I think there's a middle ground that can be found.

 

 

A free level 4-6 spell with super accuracy. Is real good. 

 

 

Their damage isn't even remotely close to the spells they mimic, so your point is invalid.

 

 

Traps often have more effect than just damage. Which makes your point invalid. 

 

 

The cc traps, yes, though even they have much weaker effects than the spells they mimic.  And most traps are damaging traps with piddly damage vs their spell counterparts.  I'd say traps are basically 2-3 spell levels weaker than the corresponding spells (meaning the weakest aren't even on par with 1st level spells).  If traps were as powerful as the spells they mimic a limit of one would make sense balance-wise.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Atheosis

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

The cc traps, yes, though even they have much weaker effects than the spells they mimic.  And most traps are damaging traps with piddly damage vs their spell counterparts.  I'd say traps are basically 2-3 spell levels weaker than the corresponding spells (meaning the weakest aren't even on par with 1st level spells).  If traps were as powerful as the spells the mimic a limit of one would make sense balance-wise.

 

 

The weaker traps are still useful early game, less so late game.. which makes sense balance-wise. Being able to petrify, hobble, weaken, sicken an entire encounter is very good already. 

 

If they were on par then 3-4 traps would be an I win button for nearly every encounter. 

[Yenkins]

 

It s not your place to judge how someone wants to play. Players need freedom to roleplay.

 

Freedom to roleplay has nothing to do with spamming 50 traps at once. 

 

But you do have the freedom to type iroll20s into the console, which is the equivalent. 

 

Hyperbole is real with this one.

[Luj1]

I'll just say this again. Despite everything these are clearly not the same traps. The ones triggering on the player are devastating. Our own traps don't have nearly such an impact. These are clearly not the same traps.

 

And if you think setting an outrageous number of traps before a hard encounter is imbalanced, you can already do that with all the summoning items in the game. And seals aren't limited to one either, and these are spells not items.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Luj1

[b0rsuk]

Look, what you want is actually to cause more damage before combat. The same could be achieved by... stronger traps. Why don't you ask for some more expensive but high damage traps instead ? A single powerful trap is less annoying to set up than a dozen of dart traps.

 

And if you think setting an outrageous number of traps before a hard encounter is imbalanced, you can already do that with all the summoning items in the game. And seals aren't limited to one either, and these are spells not items.

 

And this is why you fix imbalances in your game. Because it's a slippery slope, and people use it an an excuse to break other things in the name of cheese. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Edited April 9, 2015 by b0rsuk

[PIP-Clownboy]

I'll just say this again. Despite everything these are clearly not the same traps. The ones triggering on the player are devastating. Our own traps don't have nearly such an impact. These are clearly not the same traps.

 

 

 

Well I don't see the AI scouting around disarming your traps. How many more advantages do you really need now?

[CameraLuv]

A limit on traps is idiotic and makes no sense. The game already breaks a number of common sense notions for no other reason than to be "innovative", like having hugely muscular mages. Stupid design choice. I wonder if the programming wizards at Obsidian are all bodybuilders as well?

 

Then now, traps left in the ground somehow decide they cannot exist if another trap is laid down next to it? That's lame soup.

Hopefully the IE Mod will fix this retarded decision. It's slowly making the game into a more playable and fun experience as it is, implementing all those nice things that some people here would whine about breaking the game.

Freedom of choice should be a priority. Not this guided nanny state type game play. If people don't want to cheese traps - just don't do it. Would the whiners here also jump off a cliff if they could? 

[b0rsuk]

Hopefully IE mod will have it's own subforum, and it will serve as a honeypot for people with bad taste and disgusting habits. I've already seen some of that, for example "slower recovery while walking makes no sense". Sun Tzu and Machiavelli agree kiting is the pinnacle of strategy ! The mod will also make balancing easier for Obsidian, because they will just have to look into IE mod patch notes, and do exactly the opposite to have an interesting, fun to play game. Farting and spitting in public is okay - just don't do it if it bothers you ). Feces are sweet -- millions of flies can't be wrong.

[Sanctuary]

The combat in PoE is very tactical and not easy. So I don't want to be limited to 1 trap. I have dozens in my inventory.

 

No it isn't, and yes it is.  Pretty much every encounter can be handled almost exactly the same way:

Send tank in, AoE everything to death (or FF down high priority target, then proceed to AoE everything to death).  The encounter design is really bad overall as most of the game is nothing but endless trash that can easily be dispatched with the same single tactic.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Sanctuary

[Luj1]

Your right. I wrote that some 3 weeks ago when I just started poe. Now I see its very bland in most respects