Limerick edit thread 2

[Cyphon]

Let's open a Church of Firedorn.

 

He can be the God of individualism, free speech, diversity and humor.

Free speech only applies to government action.  Public disagreement and debate is not censorship.  They are, in fact, precisely what free speech is all about.  Free speech has never and will never mean "speech free of any consequences, disagreement or rebuttal."  Someone thinking about criticism and deciding how they feel it would be the best way to respond is also an act of freedom.  Nothing was forced on anyone here.

[Kveldulf]

thank you for that fix actually on the whole I know the LGBT crowd are reasonable, sensible, and good people

 

 

Yea, because the people who wear their genitalia flag on their sleeve are somehow more sensible than mainstreamers who keep it between their legs - discreet.

 

I see more bigotry and hypocrisy from the LGBT than Fred Phelps in Kansas (and I live in ks).

[Serdan]

inb4 Cucksidian delets this thread too

 

 

"Obsidian today has committed a terrible sin

 

And let the real terrorists win.

 

What people thought was mild and tame

 

The monsters censored a video game.

 

Now they changed what was used to be said.

 

And their reputation is completely dead."

Because dehumanising others is always fun.

[peaky]

Come on people, the original joke was pretty offensive.

 

I mean it was making fun of this poor guy who was essentially raped (sex under false pretenses), and felt such guilt that he committed suicide.

 

Oh the issue was with the joke making fun of the "transperson" (could just be an effeminate guy?) and none of the people complaining care about the straight male who committed suicide?

 

.....oh

[Darji]

 

I never said she should have said nothing, I do not even blame her for using the twitter censorship model that people have perfected. If I were I would boycott her products. I blame Obsidian for carving in to such a nutjob. So no i never censored her. I never went on twitter and attacked her

 

And yeah context does not matter. Racsim is Racsim. There are no differences at all.

 

Prove that Obs "caved in" and not merely agreed.

 

You think context doesn't matter because you are ignorant of the context.

 

Prove that is not the case.

 

And I am sorry but I do not differentiate between your Color. If you are discriminating because of someones color you are a racist to me. Like these people who threaten the teenager who was so proud of her dreadlocks and posted a picture on Facebook.,  Her only error she was white. And White people are not allowed to wear dreadlocks....

 

And yeah if you believe this bull**** you are also a racist. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by Darji

[Bulivyf]

I would like to see Firedorn canonized as a saint in the Pillars of Eternity lore.  

I agree. IMO Firedorn should have faked his own death after the "incident" and lives on that beach with the Alchemist in disguise as, ironically, a woman trying to revitalize the waning market for the HI-C drink 'Ecto Cooler'. He'd only speak in limerick and would have a considerable bulge in the front of his dress as the only indication as to who, and what he really was.

 

"It's a bit hot out, why not have a nip,

Woops I didn't mean THAT, I meant have a sip!

Refresh yourself with some high-fructose corn syrup ol' timer,

Check the packaging, that's Ghost Buster's Slimer!"

 

(spoiler!: The bulge was a stash of Ecto Cooler! See how context changes things?)

 

[zuljor]

Obsidian is dealing with this issue like my 50 year old father deals with my 80 year old grandmother:

Approving in front of everybody her sometimes very eccentric behaviour (see the official update), but then belittling her in private talks with other family members (see new poem: Here lies Firedorn, a bard, a poet; He was also a card, but most didn't know it; A poem he wrote in jest was misread; They asked for blood, so now he's just dead)

 

A false pad on the shoulder, thereby preventing a serious discussion and a search for a consensus only leads to much more false pads in the future and a growing unhappiness for both parties.

[Longknife]

 

Let's open a Church of Firedorn.

 

He can be the God of individualism, free speech, diversity and humor.

Free speech only applies to government action.  Public disagreement and debate is not censorship.  They are, in fact, precisely what free speech is all about.  Free speech has never and will never mean "speech free of any consequences, disagreement or rebuttal."  Someone thinking about criticism and deciding how they feel it would be the best way to respond is also an act of freedom.  Nothing was forced on anyone here.

 

 

True, I just didn't quite know how to word it. Hard to sum up a god in limited words. I guess 'unrestricted expression' would be the alternative, but again that sounds similar.

[Purityrantanical]

What you also all need to understand is:

 

Have your own personal opinions, fine.  Take a one man war against the twitter moron.  Hell, the whole LGBT crowd for all I care.  Nothing will happen to you.   YOU people are not a company.

 

Now, for one moment, take your self entitled heads out of your rear ends, and think about what that minority crowd could actually do to a large company.  Imagine you are an integral part of said company...hell even own the company perhaps.  You think Josh has the power to make these decisions alone?  You're idiots if you do.  He is just the public face for this.

 

Bigger companies than Obsidian have been brought to their knees by smaller groups than this before now.  Do I agree with censorship in any form?  Hell no.  Does it annoy me that these minority groups make us accept what they want, yet insist they do not have to listen to our voice?  Yes it royally pisses me off.

 

But I'm not a famous name, neither do I have a company to think about or shareholders and directors.

 

And for the record, all your shouting is actually no different to the twitter moron....YOU want this...and screw everyone else.  Funny old world eh?

 

This doesn't make sense to me. These places that'll slander a company based on a joke... these all-powerful gatekeepers as I'm supposed to imagine them... If they wanted to blacklist Pillars of Eternity or avoid talking about it, then it's already too late. You're in their bad books already. Removing the joke couldn't fix it. The other thing as well I thought, was that the money for the production and marketing of Pillars of Eternity has already been raised, so it's not like Kotaku could smother it out or stop it from becoming a success at this point. There's no reason to cave in besides a potential added marketing opportunity if a few sites write an article about it. Frankly, they have a lot more to lose by censoring it than they do by leaving it in, because that opens the door for more special pleading and for the sort of backlash that we're seeing as a result of it.

[Shake Appeal]

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

[Gonchi]

Pathetic. 

[LiveSpartan235]

I have ****ing had it with these SJWs I'm just livid at this point as of late this has been happening more and more developers walking on eggshells to appease a bunch of oversensitive twitter nitwits. Every developer that censors themselves to appease these people are all cowards in my eyes and will never see my money these people do not give a single **** about your games they just want power and they scream "I'm offended" until they get their way.

 

This whole debacle had already blown over about a day after it started Obsidian could have said nothing but no Obsidian decided to cave to a hateful SJW and her followers instead of listening to their own fans.

 

I hope your happy with the SJWs Obsidian and thanks for saving me money.

[Cyphon]

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

 

Agreed.  People made their case on both sides of the issue.  Obsidian listened and made up its own mind about how best to respond.  Respect their decision and move on.  The prolonged and irrational anti-"SJW" tantrum is effing infantile.

[Nerdwing]

 

I would like to see Firedorn canonized as a saint in the Pillars of Eternity lore.  

I agree. IMO Firedorn should have faked his own death after the "incident" and lives on that beach with the Alchemist in disguise as, ironically, a woman trying to revitalize the waning market for the HI-C drink 'Ecto Cooler'. He'd only speak in limerick and would have a considerable bulge in the front of his dress as the only indication as to who, and what he really was.

 

"It's a bit hot out, why not have a nip,

Woops I didn't mean THAT, I meant have a sip!

Refresh yourself with some high-fructose corn syrup ol' timer,

Check the packaging, that's Ghost Buster's Slimer!"

 

(spoiler!: The bulge was a stash of Ecto Cooler! See how context changes things?)

 

 

This.  I'm all about this ****.

[Darji]

 

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

 

Agreed.  People made their case on both sides of the issue.  Obsidian listened and made up its own mind about how best to respond.  Respect their decision and move on.  The prolonged and irrational anti-"SJW" tantrum is effing infantile.

 

No it is just freedom of speech. And a reaction to their behavior since its getting more and more stupid every day.  And now the line is almost completely crossed for many people. 

[Serdan]

 

 

I never said she should have said nothing, I do not even blame her for using the twitter censorship model that people have perfected. If I were I would boycott her products. I blame Obsidian for carving in to such a nutjob. So no i never censored her. I never went on twitter and attacked her

 

And yeah context does not matter. Racsim is Racsim. There are no differences at all.

 

Prove that Obs "caved in" and not merely agreed.

 

You think context doesn't matter because you are ignorant of the context.

 

Prove that is not the case.

 

And I am sorry but I do not differentiate between your Color. If you are discriminating because of someones color you are a racist to me. Like these people who threaten the teenager who was so proud of her dreadlocks and posted a picture on Facebook.,  Her only error she was white. And White people are not allowed to wear dreadlocks....

 

And yeah if you believe this bull**** you are also a racist. 

 

Nuh uh. You made a claim. Now put up or shut up.

 

I'm not going to talk about racism. It's completely irrelevant.

[Litany]

I have ****ing had it with these SJWs I'm just livid at this point as of late this has been happening more and more developers walking on eggshells to appease a bunch of oversensitive twitter nitwits. Every developer that censors themselves to appease these people are all cowards in my eyes and will never see my money these people do not give a single **** about your games they just want power and they scream "I'm offended" until they get their way.

 

This whole debacle had already blown over about a day after it started Obsidian could have said nothing but no Obsidian decided to cave to a hateful SJW and her followers instead of listening to their own fans.

 

I hope your happy with the SJWs Obsidian and thanks for saving me money.

Counterpoint: SJWs rule and you drool.

[AgentTBC]

Do we really need threads like this?  Mostly they just serve to reveal bigotry and cause flamewars.

[Luj1]

A few more thoughts to consider for Obsidian and the community:

 

What Obsidian invariably did by correcting it, also puts out the strong impression that Obsidian particularly supports LGBT, and that causes things to be even more polarized. It really would have been better if they just left it alone, now they may face an even bigger blow-back from other political spectrums.

 

Another thing, It's very hypocritical to censor one type of joke over other ones in the game. Is it wrong to even have a transphobic character/thing in a story? It's bloddy fiction. Heck, those old IE games were rife with political incorrect things.... look at Arcanum.... at the very beggining of character creation gender gave you different bonuses, hark! But you know, details like that actually helped with immersion.

 

I wouldn't even say the joke is transphobic.... I can relate to Firedorns sentiments - if I slept with a tran on accident....  Heck, I reckon 'most' heterosexuals would feel horrified too, lol. I guess our 'niche' sense of reality/humor gets the shovel though right? Well..... that's even more confidence lost in obsidians decision makers.

 

I would rather a game depict real human tendencies than it being super imposed with political feel goodness.

 

 

Because a minority has bigger rights than a majority in democracy..... 

 

 

1) be a minority

 

2) ask

 

3) ask again

 

4) wait

 

5) receive

[Bayzent]

 

 Respect their decision and move on. 

 

No, a fanbase fellating a company and not telling them when they have wronged them is what happened to Bioware and we lost them forever. 

[Longknife]

I have ****ing had it with these SJWs I'm just livid at this point as of late this has been happening more and more developers walking on eggshells to appease a bunch of oversensitive twitter nitwits. Every developer that censors themselves to appease these people are all cowards in my eyes and will never see my money these people do not give a single **** about your games they just want power and they scream "I'm offended" until they get their way.

 

This whole debacle had already blown over about a day after it started Obsidian could have said nothing but no Obsidian decided to cave to a hateful SJW and her followers instead of listening to their own fans.

 

I hope your happy with the SJWs Obsidian and thanks for saving me money.

 

 

There's no reason to flip out that much, because this kind of action can be expected from ANY company.

 

It's simple: the CEO and marketing department get paid to ensure that as many costumers see the product as possible and that the game or company does not get negative press. Censoring such snippets is considered the safe option because if left unchecked, you run the risk of people claiming you're homophobes or transphobic or whatever.

 

The moment this doesn't happen is gonna be the moment a CEO or marketing department starts getting scrutiny, thus the cycle continues.

[Nerdwing]

 

Counterpoint: SJWs rule and you drool.

 

Owned!!!!!!!

[gtr2009]

 

 

 

Censorship is definitely the wrong term to use here - No one is being legally forced to do anything.

 

Caving to certain loud minorities on the other hand...

 

 

I like the new poem as a backhand to offendatrons.

 

That said, the original submission should've stayed.

 

Knowing the tenacity of modders who feel scorned, I'm sure we'll see a travelling bard version with full VO reciting these Limericks somewhere in the game as a mod. It's bound to happen. 

Censorship is not only forced by law. As I said you are pretty naive if you believe that is the case. 

 

A beautiful point my good man in fact most censorship is not caused by government bodies

 

Has nothing to do with law even.  FACT:  NOBODY IS BEING FORCED TO DO ANYTHING, PERIOD.  People on both sides spoke out.  It doesn't matter who "started it."  a public debate occurred and Obsidian remained 100% perfectly free to do some introspection about the issue and react in whatever way they felt was appropriate and best for their company and the game and the community.  It simply wasn't "censorship" in any way, shape or form.  It was Obsidian making up its own mind about how to best respond to criticism, and the whole (rather puerile) incident highlights precisely what the founding fathers believed was important about free speech:  public debate, even nasty ones, resulting in societal change and progress.

 

 

You're missing the point and misstating facts.  There was no public debate.  

 

As far as the forums here and the various threads are concerned, and the number of people with a K under their name who are steadfastly against the choice of submitting to the will of twitter rageaholics, it is clear (thus far) that had their been a public debate the voices of the paying customers who are against changing the limerick far outweigh non paying twittererezez.

 

There was a public complaint, an internal secret debate, and a change.  This thread and others like it are the ex post facto attempt to have a public debate.  Which you say you like, so, enjoy the thread.

[LiveSpartan235]

 

I'm deeply saddened by the reaction of the community to this. That's all.

 

Agreed.  People made their case on both sides of the issue.  Obsidian listened and made up its own mind about how best to respond.  Respect their decision and move on.  The prolonged and irrational anti-"SJW" tantrum is effing infantile.

 

Made up their own minds my ass they wouldn't done anything if it weren't for some twitter **** screaming at them.

[topologista]

Oh god, are these dudes still crying about Obsidian removing the ****ty joke? And crying about us terrible "sjw's" ruining their games. lol