Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Update 93: Patch 1.03 - Important Community Fixes

1.03 Update Community Fixes

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
617 replies to this topic

#21
Zaccaro

Zaccaro

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 6 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I have to say, thank you, this game is exactly what I wanted, in so many ways. It of course isn't perfect, but I am reminded of all the games you mentioned you wished it to be a successor to. In my opinion you have delivered what was promised and more.



#22
Ruinshin

Ruinshin

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 3 posts

This change cost you a customer. I'm not sure if this post will even show up due to the moderation rules, but frankly...

 

It's not the rhyme or it's removal exactly.

 

It's that you caved. It's that you gave in to the censorship crowd. That you think humor, of any sort, should be off limits. This wasn't missed by vetting. This wasn't seen as an issue and now you are making excuses.

 

Lionhead and it's picture.

Dead or Alive.

 

When is enough enough? When do fans stop being the ones defending you, and you start defending yourself?

 

For me, as far as I'm concerned..

 

It's today.

 

I won't support a company I don't agree with. At least not when it comes to entertainment.

 

It's not just a difference of opinion either. You've censored yourself. You've given in. You've restricted something you had in the game at one point because someone said it upset them.

 

In an age and climate where free speach is openly mocked and deried, you gave credence that it should be.

 

Because you refused to defend it. Refused to support it.

 

So I refuse to support you, and anyone else who refuses to defend their rights.


  • Luckmann, Posbi, themanclaw and 11 others like this

#23
endgameoo

endgameoo

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 4 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted.

 

 

Sorry, I don't buy this.  I've read some PR and that is exactly what this reads as.


  • Luckmann, Posbi, themanclaw and 7 others like this

#24
Redwulf

Redwulf

    The Obsidian Orders Royal Pain

  • Members
  • 65 posts
  • Location:Location: Location
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

It was a nice poem, made me chuckle.  Didn't make me want to go and attack homosexual people or view them as inferior to myself...I have a mind of my own afterall.


Edited by Redwulf, 03 April 2015 - 02:38 PM.

  • billythegreat, Luckmann, Posbi and 15 others like this

#25
ShadySands

ShadySands

    The Guy on the Couch of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3320 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

So a poem about a fool killing himself doesn't fit the tone of PoE, but the murder of children does?

Glad the backer got input on this, but that justification is...odd.

 

I suspect that it was vetted before but nobody thought anything of it, I know I sure didn't. Hard to know who is going to be offended by what, especially when it's not so obvious.

 

That said, it's even better now because it makes fun of those who got offended by it


  • Leferd, ManifestedISO, Fhjull Schlangenzunge and 5 others like this

#26
Twilights_Bard

Twilights_Bard

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 5 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

As a backer, if there is some reason your content needs to be changed, they will contact you. So stop worrying?

They replaced a bad joke that upset some people with a good joke that rhymes better. This is not the hill to die on and everyone should just move on.

 

 

The question still remains, and it's not a case about it being a hill to die on.  It's a question of that so many tombstones could not have taken that long to go through and vet for changes.  It's a question of what were they doing that some slipped through?  Or a case of miscommunication, what someone didn't get offended by, someone else did?  It's not about this one joke, but what else slipped through the cracks, and why?

 

I simply think it's a fair question for someone who put their money into the game as a backer to ask.



#27
Varana

Varana

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 480 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Well, the "was not vetted" stuff is the usual PR bollocks (as every PR speak is); it would've required a very special mindset to understand the content in the way that it was understood, and while there may be some twisted minds working at Obsidian ;), they're usually not twisted in that way.
So what.
  • Luckmann, VanishedOne, Fenrir007 and 2 others like this

#28
Khorgor

Khorgor

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 4 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I weas absolutely for keeping the old Joke, but the new one makes fun of Outragers and the whole situation, so lets keep it.

 

@Obsidian, maybe check who is complaining on Twitter next time, a person who says its OK to put all men into conzentration camps should not be a person one takes seriously.


  • VanishedOne, Matt516, Picky and 3 others like this

#29
Azradun

Azradun

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 53 posts
  • Location:Poland

As a backer, if there is some reason your content needs to be changed, they will contact you. So stop worrying?

They replaced a bad joke that upset some people with a good joke that rhymes better. This is not the hill to die on and everyone should just move on.

 

 

As a long time customer of Obsidian (loved Neverwinter 2, especially Mask of the Betrayer), I'm not very happy to see anyone with enough Twitter following can easily remove content from your game *they* find offensive. I'd like to buy a game and own it, and not it being retroactively censored by other people. I pay today and content disappears tomorrow, because it didn't met someone's taste? You know what I find offensive? Censorship, having grown in communist Poland back in the day.

 

At least I can make an informed decision and not buy the game now. I got my salary today and was deciding which of the new games to buy - well, as I am offended by censorship (reminds me of Gierek, Jaruzelski and United Communist Party of Poland which I remember too well), I won't be backing this game. I'll wait a year or two for a sale. I can :p

 

Yeah, I know - I'll buy a Polish game instead. They don't cave in to loud censors.


  • Luckmann, Posbi, themanclaw and 7 others like this

#30
Dark_Ansem

Dark_Ansem

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 369 posts
  • Steam:Dark_Ansem
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

It's a tad disappointing, I admit. And does not bode well for the future.


  • Posbi, Jaffe, Pendali and 7 others like this

#31
Fenrir007

Fenrir007

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 29 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

The vocal population were present in that debate. I, for example, have an opinion regarding the issue, but chose not to share it. I highly doubt the forum objectively represents the 'overwhelming majority'.

 

 

By staying silent you chose to disregard your vote. That is on you.


Edited by Fenrir007, 03 April 2015 - 02:42 PM.

  • Luckmann and greywoods like this

#32
BAdler

BAdler

    Game Director

  • Developers+
  • -9926 posts
  • Location:Irvine, CA
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer

"Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone."

 

So this means that said poem didn't get screened before release, okay... Are we going to be seeing more changes being made to backer content that wasn't checked before release as well or was this really the only one?

What tone are you referring to exactly?

 

If we happened to miss content, then yes, we will change it if we feel it is necessary.

 

Like Feargus mentioned in the update, we worked with many backers to revise their content for myriad reasons.


  • Bryy, Lythe Vodaine, acdha and 1 other like this

#33
Fenrir007

Fenrir007

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 29 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

Yes, but the backer was the one who paid for the pledge and agreed to have the limerick changed into a different one. It's their money, they get to decide what to do with it.

 

 

You speak as if he had a choice. Did he?


  • Luckmann, Posbi, Allvaldr and 2 others like this

#34
TechRaptor_SJ

TechRaptor_SJ

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 1 posts

Write for TechRaptor, and I did reach out regarding the change, but I would like to publicly ask questions here, as there's been no response.

 

 

Backer Content

 

It's come to our attention that a piece of backer-created content has made it into Pillars of Eternity that was not vetted. Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone.

 

In the case of this specific content, we checked with the backer who wrote it and asked them about changing it. We respect our backers greatly, and felt it was our duty to include them in the process. They gave us new content which we have used to replace what is in the game. To be clear, we followed the process we would have followed had this content been vetted prior to the release of the product.

 

We appreciate the faith you have all given us into making Pillars of Eternity the great game that it has become, and we appreciate the strength of conviction all of you bring to every conversation we have together.

 

Sincerely,

Feargus Urquhart, CEO
Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

 

1. Is there any reason why the restrictions or vetting process in terms of what content is deemed acceptable or tone correct hasn't been released at this point? As pointed out, we have a game that has the birth of children without souls, hangings, and various other content that people may find offensive. It may answer several questions regarding the change. Considering it's within a file of the game, it would seem to be noted in a change log.

2. Why was the change not disclosed in the original Change Log and patch notes, considering the issue that was brought forward made several gaming news sites, and was a topic of discussion?


  • Luckmann, VanishedOne and Allvaldr like this

#35
Litany

Litany

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 66 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

First they came for the poorly written jokes, and I did not speak out because seriously it's not a big deal get over it you babies.

What if they forced this poor holy being, this Backer amongst Backers (Peace Be Upon Him), to change his bad writing to slightly better writing? Can we trust Obsidian anymore??


  • Luckmann, Tamerlane, sparklecat and 4 others like this

#36
ChipMHazard

ChipMHazard

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 156 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

 

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

If I may, I think I like the new one better. It's actually funny.

 

 

Aye indeed it is. But the supposed precedent this sets isn't.

Which is also I would like further clarification on this as reassurance that this won't happen again, if only to show that this wasn't to appease one clearly crazy person on twitter i.e. I would like to know which tone backer content has to live up to. 

 

Precedent? This isn't the Supreme Court. The content changed because someone said it was offensive, Obsidian agreed, and they asked the backer to submit something more appropriate.

I hope that's ALWAYS what they do, and if there's something else that they feel needs to be changed they don't waste time in doing so.

 

 

Aye and what happens when someone else finds something else to be offensive? When does it stop now that they know it can be done? That's the precedent. 

 

I hope it never becomes like that because there would be no end to it and we would have to kiss artistic integrity goodbye. 

There's a difference between editing content because it didn't live up to your standards and giving into a form of censorship because a disgruntled individual put pressure on you. I do hope it's the former and not the latter, but so far I'm not convinced. 


  • Posbi, Fhjull Schlangenzunge, VanishedOne and 3 others like this

#37
Fenrir007

Fenrir007

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 29 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

First they came for the poorly written jokes, and I did not speak out because seriously it's not a big deal get over it you babies.

What if they forced this poor holy being, this Backer amongst Backers (Peace Be Upon Him), to change his bad writing to slightly better writing? Can we trust Obsidian anymore??

 

Don't know abotu you, but I fear when Obsidian starts to tailor their games to people that are openly misandrist and don't have enough reading comprehension to understand what the joke was all about.


  • Posbi, Fhjull Schlangenzunge, VanishedOne and 3 others like this

#38
ChipMHazard

ChipMHazard

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 156 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

"Once it was brought to our attention, it followed the same vetting process as all of our other content. Prior to release, we worked with many of our backers to iterate on content they asked to be put into the game that didn't strike the right tone."

 

So this means that said poem didn't get screened before release, okay... Are we going to be seeing more changes being made to backer content that wasn't checked before release as well or was this really the only one?

What tone are you referring to exactly?

 

If we happened to miss content, then yes, we will change it if we feel it is necessary.

 

Like Feargus mentioned in the update, we worked with many backers to revise their content for myriad reasons.

 

 

Good and thank you for the reply. Although I would very much still like to know what tone exactly is being referred to here. Will I be able to purchase future content with the knowledge that it will carry the same dark tones as the main game? - Unless of course it's decided to make it lighter hearted by design.

Hopefully you can see why this is important to someone like me: A fan of more adult fantasy settings, as they represent a more realistic/immersive universe. 


Edited by ChipMHazard, 03 April 2015 - 02:59 PM.


#39
Litany

Litany

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 66 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

 

 

 

 

Absolutely disgusting to see Obsidian cave in like this, and spitting in the faces of their backers in the process. The overwhelming majority was in favor of KEEPING IT, as you could see simply by checking the official forums or other places.

 

If I'm offended by wizards being in the game because mystical things are against my religion, will you also pull them from it?

 

If I may, I think I like the new one better. It's actually funny.

 

 

Aye indeed it is. But the supposed precedent this sets isn't.

Which is also I would like further clarification on this as reassurance that this won't happen again, if only to show that this wasn't to appease one clearly crazy person on twitter i.e. I would like to know which tone backer content has to live up to. 

 

Precedent? This isn't the Supreme Court. The content changed because someone said it was offensive, Obsidian agreed, and they asked the backer to submit something more appropriate.

I hope that's ALWAYS what they do, and if there's something else that they feel needs to be changed they don't waste time in doing so.

 

 

Aye and what happens when someone else finds something else to be offensive? When does it stop now that they know it can be done? That's the precedent. 

 

I hope it never becomes like that because there would be no end to it and we would have to kiss artistic integrity goodbye. 

There's a difference between editing content because it didn't live up to your standards and giving into a form of censorship because a disgruntled individual put pressure on you. I do hope it's the former and not the latter, but so far I'm not convinced. 

 

I suppose that depends on if Obsidian agrees that it is indeed offensive. If they do, like they did here, then they'll act accordingly. The weird doomsday scenarios I'm hearing involve Obsidian not having any opinions of their own and just kowtowing to whatever random people ask of them on Twitter, which I've not known Obsidian to do.

Obsidian is good and they did good here. (And censorship doesn't mean what you think it does.)


  • Kasoroth, Kai, sparklecat and 3 others like this

#40
Nonek

Nonek

    Not of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3040 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I'll repeat myself, sorry to do so, I can't back a decision to cater to a Neo Nazi and a genocide advocate, and the insecure, entitled whiners who would support such individuals. That these twisted and immoral individuals are dictating what is moral and acceptable in a virtual construct is to me utterly preposterous. Surely you must see how hypocritical it is to say that this joke is unacceptable, while arguing for the death of half the worlds population and Ian Miles Cheung's equally repulsive views are acceptable?

 

I'm utterly speechless at the tacit support of such hateful bile spewing agendas.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 1.03, Update, Community, Fixes

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users