Thinking of buying, worried about Wizards though

[Daemonjax]

Was reading the wiki and saw that wizards function like baldur's gate: they can only cast a small number of spells before becoming useless redshirts. To become marginally useful again they have to rest 8 hours... This seems like an outdated and annoying mechanic. What do wizards do once they've cast their two spells at level one? Go home and take a nap? Put on pom-poms and cheerlead for the real members of the party?

 

Please tell me I misunderstood the wiki so I can buy this game.

 

Play a Cipher as your main character instead of wizard, then.

 

It's a very strong (and interesting to play) class.

[Horrorscope]

It makes me wonder if all spells of rest-based casters should auto-refresh every 8 or 12 hours without resting. Resting would still be instant and limited like it is. When a class like Chiper exists, who regenerates constantly and has some great spells. Might make for an interesting mod.

[Bayzent]

Don't worry, they are harder to make useful than in other fantasy games, but once they got stuff like "Confusion" they become beasts of horde control.

 

Fireball is dissapointing though...

[eastc]

I'm not sure what the complaints on wizards on with their ineffectiveness. I haven't played the other classes but my wizard is the crutch/damage dealer in my party of 3 which I used to clear most of the starting areas pre-Od Nua on Path of the Damned and I already think that's /pretty easy/. Would pretty easy be trivially easy with a "buff class"?

 

 

Wait... Is it spells per level per rest, OR is it spells per grimoire per level per rest? In other words if you have 3 grimoires, is that effectively 12 spells per level per rest or just the option to choose 4 out of 12 spells before needing to take nap? Or put even simpler, is it the grimoires need to recharge during rest or is it the wizards themselves?

Also, how many grimoires and spells does the average wizard get access to during most of the game?

 

Per level per rest. At higher levels they become per encounter instead of per rest. I like it over DnD's very restrictive system at lower levels. I don't know how it plays at higher levels.

[Horrorscope]

Don't worry, they are harder to make useful than in other fantasy games, but once they got stuff like "Confusion" they become beasts of horde control.

 

Fireball is dissapointing though...

 

But doesn't a Cipher and Priest have a solid crowd control options within the first few levels and some good ones right off the bat?

 

Eastc, I am not at that level, but you are saying Wizard spells (at least some) turn into "per encounter"? If so, then yeah no problem with that at all.

 

As for the poster you answered, Grimouires I'm almost certain do not work like that, extra uses per rest. You can just use spells out of other Grim's, so instead of 4 level one's you have two books you have 8 level 1's to choose from.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Horrorscope

[Stun]

Wizards are.... well, they're ok in this game, but aside from "role playing", why in the world would you create one when you could create a Druid instead?

 

They're NOT equal. They're not even balanced. Not in the slightest. Druids are better in melee. Their single target spells are more diverse and more powerful. Their AoEs do more damage. They have party healing spells, wizards don't. They have summoning spells, wizard's don't. They're not constricted by the grimoire mechanic, wizards are.

 

I can't think of a single area of combat where a wizard does better than a druid in PoE.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Stun

[Dongom]

Wizards are.... well, they're ok in this game, but aside from "role playing", why in the world would you create one when you could create a Druid instead?

 

They're NOT equal. They're not even balanced. Not in the slightest. Druids are better in melee. Their single target spells are more diverse and more powerful. Their AoEs do more damage. They have party healing spells, wizards don't. They have summoning spells, wizard's don't. They're not constricted by the grimoire mechanic.

 

I can't think of a single area of combat where a wizard does better than a druid in PoE.

 

 

Wizard CC is much better.  It's almost like cheating if you use the right stuff.  When t1 becomes per encounter (at lvl 9) he's pretty much god.

 

 

 

The only issue is how damn long it takes for him to get powerful, the curve is waaaaay off for him.  It's also very much not fun doing the super long dungeon with a wizard: while he makes the bosses trivialized, you either end up doing nothing on him for most of the time or backtracking for rests.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Dongom

[Stun]

You're talking about Slicken, right?

 

By level 9, a druid no longer needs CC. At that point he'll have massive AOE spells that nuke the battlefield for 50-100 points of damage, and he'll be able to use them 5 or 6 times a day.

[Dongom]

Not just Slicken, but also a stacking Chill Fog area dot which hurts/blinds enemies, and Call To Slumber which again foe AOE very long duration knockdown, and a decently sized area confuse turning anyone inside on your side. These don't effect Allies.  

Edited April 1, 2015 by Dongom

[Ziljan]

 

Wait... Is it spells per level per rest, OR is it spells per grimoire per level per rest? In other words if you have 3 grimoires, is that effectively 12 spells per level per rest or just the option to choose 4 out of 12 spells before needing to take nap? Or put even simpler, is it the grimoires need to recharge during rest or is it the wizards themselves?

Also, how many grimoires and spells does the average wizard get access to during most of the game?

 

It's spells per rest. You find as many grimoires as you defeat enemy Wizards (I think I have something like 5 extra ones right now), but they do not allow you to cast extra spells. In other words, a level 4 Wizard will always be able to cast exactly 4 level 1 spells no matter how many times you switch grimoires. Also, switching grimoires incurs a rather long cooldown during which you can't cast any spells at all. On the other hand, finding all of those grimoires does allow you to learn new spells from them (at the cost of 100 gold per spell level).

Wow. The devs don't love wizards I guess. Oh well. Guess I'll stick with Divinity and Magicka. A cipher sounds like something from the Matrix, not fantasy, and I have no interest in that. A druid sounds like the only viable alternative, but I see they get spells per rest as well. And I'm not into the resting "mini-game" genre. I'm glad someone is keeping the D&D flame alive, I just hope they don't snuff it out by sticking to PnP spellcasting quite so religiously.

[Stun]

Not just Slicken, but also a stacking Chill Fog area dot which hurts/blinds enemies, and Call To Slumber which again foe AOE very long duration knockdown, and a decently sized area confuse turning anyone inside on your side. These don't effect Allies.

Are we seriously having a discussion about which of the two classes has the better CC spells? Have you looked at even the lower level druid spell list? Druids have AoE paralyze spells. They have Mass Charm spells. If you're using your spell casters for CC, none will be more effective than a druid.

 

And druids have the best Ally friendly AoE nuke in the game: Returning Storm. Not only does it do huge damage every second, but it stuns every second.

 

 

So lets sum up: Summon Spells, Charm Spells, healing spells, the best CC spells. They can shape shift, and augment their shapeshifts with wild strikes. They have party buffs, and AoE enemy debuffs.

 

They're what Wizards should have been, and would be, had someone other than Josh "I-hate-IE-wizards" Sawyer been in charge of class design for this game.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Stun

[Khrysophylax]

 

 

Wait... Is it spells per level per rest, OR is it spells per grimoire per level per rest? In other words if you have 3 grimoires, is that effectively 12 spells per level per rest or just the option to choose 4 out of 12 spells before needing to take nap? Or put even simpler, is it the grimoires need to recharge during rest or is it the wizards themselves?

Also, how many grimoires and spells does the average wizard get access to during most of the game?

It's spells per rest. You find as many grimoires as you defeat enemy Wizards (I think I have something like 5 extra ones right now), but they do not allow you to cast extra spells. In other words, a level 4 Wizard will always be able to cast exactly 4 level 1 spells no matter how many times you switch grimoires. Also, switching grimoires incurs a rather long cooldown during which you can't cast any spells at all. On the other hand, finding all of those grimoires does allow you to learn new spells from them (at the cost of 100 gold per spell level).

Wow. The devs don't love wizards I guess. Oh well. Guess I'll stick with Divinity and Magicka. A cipher sounds like something from the Matrix, not fantasy, and I have no interest in that. A druid sounds like the only viable alternative, but I see they get spells per rest as well. And I'm not into the resting "mini-game" genre. I'm glad someone is keeping the D&D flame alive, I just hope they don't snuff it out by sticking to PnP spellcasting quite so religiously.

 

 

I strongly suspect that several highly placed people at Obsidian were really put off by the fact that the Mage/Sorcerer was pretty much the "GG class" of BG2 and set out to nerf the power of Wizards and prevent that legacy from carrying over into PoE.

 

As Stun says, CC isn't nearly as important by level 9 when the Druid is throwing around some amazing AOE damage spells. Trust me, I just got to level 9 on my Wizard and now spamming Slicken and Chill Fog is pretty much all I do. I'm still hoarding all the higher level spells and pretty much refusing to use them, except now I have a very tiny bit more I can do in most battles aside from auto-attack. Meanwhile, Hivervias is just becoming a god of destruction. (And I'm still wearing Fine Robes; are there any good unique robes around?)

[Dongom]

 

Not just Slicken, but also a stacking Chill Fog area dot which hurts/blinds enemies, and Call To Slumber which again foe AOE very long duration knockdown, and a decently sized area confuse turning anyone inside on your side. These don't effect Allies.

Are we seriously having a discussion about which of the two classes has the better CC spells? Have you looked at even the lower level druid spell list? Druids have AoE paralyze spells. They have Mass Charm spells. If you're using your spell casters for CC, none will be more effective than a druid.

 

And druids have the best Ally friendly Nuke in the game: Returning Storm. Not only does it do huge damage every second, but it stuns every second.

 

 

So lets sum up: Summon Spells, Charm Spells, healing spells, the best CC spells. They can shape shift, and augment their shapeshifts wild strikes. They have party buffs, and AoE enemy debuffs.

 

They're what Wizards should have been, and would be, had someone other than Josh "I-hate-IE-wizards" Sawyer been in charge of class design for this game.

 

 

 

Oh wow then why the hell do people get so mad when someone suggests Wizard spells shoulda been per encounter to balance this out.

 

It seems the YES men and whiteknights got to me, thanks for that lol.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Dongom

[Fimconte]

Wizards are OK.  
They have the spell vocabulary to deal with big fights.  


If you're having problems with 3-4 mob packs, then you need to revise your battle plans, as a single fighter can easily faceroll tank that many mobs, leaving the rest of the party to faceroll with per encounter abilities.  

Pro-tip: Arcane Assault applies Daze, Sneak Attack works on dazed people. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by Fimconte

[Stun]

Meanwhile, Hivervias is just becoming a god of destruction.

And he's mis-built! A player who creates a Druid from scratch can make one twice as powerful as Hivervias.