Paladins suck on this game :(

[dunehunter]

I like my paladin! although i'd agree many of his abilities are somewhat useless, in the level up screen i keep pondering which is the LEAST bad trait i should take, while when i level the warrior i see so many good traits i keep thinking which trait is the least GOOD one because they're all good :D

 

Me too, i changed my first playthrough class to barbarian cause they are more fun, when I level up my paladin, I just have to pick the last worst ability. But when i am picking ability and talents for my barbarian, there are so many choices and all abilities seems equally interesting so i need to ponder a while to think about it.

[dunehunter]

 

 

 it won't be as good as a fighter or sword & board monk

 

I fully agree with Gromnir, except on this. Or rather, I am probably missing something. What are the advantages of the fighter, multiple engagement? late game DR boost? Wont the fighters defenses be lower anyway? As for the monk, I thought the conclusion was that the monk was an ok tank with some offensive capabilities (as opposed to the other two)? Obviously the monk can negate some (10%?) damage if that is still in the game, and will have slightly more hp/endurance, but somewhat less defense again.

 

 

 

 the poe paladin is Not a d&d paladin.  

 

 

 

Reading this thread, it's like if some believe that D&D invented the name "paladin". I see paladins in PoE like templars or teutonic knights. An order of dedicated warriors/knights.

 

 

Its just nostalgia, but I think you got it right according to the way poe paladins are described in the game. They have a much broader concept which basically comes down to being part of an organization dedicated to an ideal (i.e. an order).

 

 

Paladin's tank ability is not as good as fighter, cause:

1. they lack self-healing, how to you expect them to survive from POTD boss with only lay on hand? This ability sucks a lot, and in POTD boss will have high enough accuracy to hit the pal, even if you have decent deflection. Even my barbarian can take the tank role cause 'Savage Defiance' is so good, it has INSTANT casting time and the healing amount is decent.

2. fighters can convert in-coming crit and hit to hit and grace. War defender is a must modal for defending.

3. paladins lack CC, they can't control the battle, so for example, if your wizard is attacked by enemy mobs, figthers can knock them down so your wizard can run to safe places, but your pal can do nothing. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by dunehunter

[speeder]

 

 

 it won't be as good as a fighter or sword & board monk

 

I fully agree with Gromnir, except on this. Or rather, I am probably missing something. What are the advantages of the fighter, multiple engagement? late game DR boost? Wont the fighters defenses be lower anyway? As for the monk, I thought the conclusion was that the monk was an ok tank with some offensive capabilities (as opposed to the other two)? Obviously the monk can negate some (10%?) damage if that is still in the game, and will have slightly more hp/endurance, but somewhat less defense again.

 

 

 

 the poe paladin is Not a d&d paladin.  

 

 

 

Reading this thread, it's like if some believe that D&D invented the name "paladin". I see paladins in PoE like templars or teutonic knights. An order of dedicated warriors/knights.

 

 

Its just nostalgia, but I think you got it right according to the way poe paladins are described in the game. They have a much broader concept which basically comes down to being part of an organization dedicated to an ideal (i.e. an order).

 

Note:

 

I am a fan of the Paladin concept, not just the D&D one, and when I read PoE lore I thought it maybe would be awesome, specially seeing the Bleak Walkers (not the stuff I am info, but I am glad the game has it).

 

But their gameplay is boring, and usually suck.

 

There are two major problems with it: first, it was seemly designed to be a tank and damage cahracter but failed at both (example: bleak walkers are supposed to be full-offense, shieldbearers full-defense, and the first choice you have is between a healing spell and a damage bonus spell). But then they switched it to be a "leader" character, having a reliance of stats that improve dialogue and the aura... But the aura is not that good (At least not the one I picked).

 

Two, it is WILDLY unbalanced between the orders, the wayfarers are pratically immortal, and a moon godlike wayfarer is immortal and make the party immortal, very overpowered.

 

At the same time, the shieldbearers (That for lore reasons would be my favourite order) are just terrible.

 

 

Also the game has seemly a heavy reliance on engagement mechanics for the tanks, and the paladins has no special engagement bonus, meaning they WILL suck as a tank, for example when assaulting Caed Nua, I have lots of problems not only with teleporting shadows and shades, but also with phantoms just waltzing their way ignoring my tanks and instakilling the back-line chars, the paladin have absolutely no way of defending other characters (at least the shieldbearer one), the phantoms could easily keep murdering my mage, and I could do nothing to prevent it... What I ended doing to win Caed Nua was very boring: kiting enemies one by one and hoping Kana arquebus would kill them (also another thing I am pissed with the game in general, arquebus are seemly the ONLY ranged weapon that is useful, bows are absolutely useless), and when I got in the main hall and got stormed by the spirits, I ended just placing everyone in that corner near the door, packed so that noone could teleport in, or walk around the party... this is very immersion breaking (seriously, fighting with eveyrone backed into a corner?), and boring.

[Scars Unseen]

I like my paladin mostly for roleplay reasons.  Mechanically, she isn't the best at anything, but she does well enough.  I gave her fairly balanced stats across the board except for constitution, which I skimped on.(I think her stats ended up being 12 9 14 15 15 15).  She doesn't die unless there's a party wipe, so I haven't felt that the con was much of a problem.  The fire strikes are nice, if somewhat limited.

 

Mostly I just like her because she's a bleak walker, or as I like to call her, jerk-ass for justice.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Scars Unseen

[Gromnir]

 

 

 it won't be as good as a fighter or sword & board monk

 

I fully agree with Gromnir, except on this. Or rather, I am probably missing something. What are the advantages of the fighter, multiple engagement? late game DR boost? Wont the fighters defenses be lower anyway? As for the monk, I thought the conclusion was that the monk was an ok tank with some offensive capabilities (as opposed to the other two)? Obviously the monk can negate some (10%?) damage if that is still in the game, and will have slightly more hp/endurance, but somewhat less defense again.

 

 

 

 the poe paladin is Not a d&d paladin.  

 

 

 

Reading this thread, it's like if some believe that D&D invented the name "paladin". I see paladins in PoE like templars or teutonic knights. An order of dedicated warriors/knights.

 

 

Its just nostalgia, but I think you got it right according to the way poe paladins are described in the game. They have a much broader concept which basically comes down to being part of an organization dedicated to an ideal (i.e. an order).

 

engagement is underrated in our estimation, particularly in hard mode when facing mobs... but the trouble is that poe mechanics is not easily explained.  we suggest looking at videos.  fighter engagement o' 3 enemies is a substantial benefit, and the various tanky abilities a fighter gets access to will have him regenerating ridiculous endurance and having short-term defense boosts that exceed even the paladin's defenses.   add one or two offensive weapon feats  and the fighter's already dependable damage output becomes increased... particularly when coupled with engagement. 

 

the monk ad fighter got changed a bit during the beta.  people complained that the fighter weren't enough like a bg/d&d fighter 'cause it were almost exclusively tankins, so the developers made the fighter better on offense.  am feeling that this were a mistake as it does blur the distinction 'tween monks and fighters.  fighters were s'posed to be the best defensive tanks.  the monks tanks were s'posed to be able to do more damage than fighters.  the lines distinguishing the classes became blurred.

 

a sword and board monk that tanks is an alternative class/build we would recommend to folks who want to play a tank paladin.  clearly "monks" is a misnomer as none o' these guys is monastic, but if you think o' them as combat friars, it works as a paladin analog. many monk abilities is functionally defensive in nature, but they is passive.  have enemies damage themselves when targeting you with missile weapons?  soul mirror sends half damage from missile weapons back to the monk's foe.  the duality talent can boost defenses, but is also passive. rooting pain is technically not defensive, but it activates when the monk takes a wound, and it is also passive.  'course, wound management and the resultant offensive abilities also means the monk can do very reliable damage.  a sword and board monk may actual be our favorite current tank both 'cause o' how effective it is, and 'cause o' how it shrugs off the typical monk role in crpgs.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

 it won't be as good as a fighter or sword & board monk

 

I fully agree with Gromnir, except on this. Or rather, I am probably missing something. What are the advantages of the fighter, multiple engagement? late game DR boost? Wont the fighters defenses be lower anyway? As for the monk, I thought the conclusion was that the monk was an ok tank with some offensive capabilities (as opposed to the other two)? Obviously the monk can negate some (10%?) damage if that is still in the game, and will have slightly more hp/endurance, but somewhat less defense again.

 

 

 

 the poe paladin is Not a d&d paladin.  

 

 

 

Reading this thread, it's like if some believe that D&D invented the name "paladin". I see paladins in PoE like templars or teutonic knights. An order of dedicated warriors/knights.

 

 

Its just nostalgia, but I think you got it right according to the way poe paladins are described in the game. They have a much broader concept which basically comes down to being part of an organization dedicated to an ideal (i.e. an order).

 

Note:

 

I am a fan of the Paladin concept, not just the D&D one, and when I read PoE lore I thought it maybe would be awesome, specially seeing the Bleak Walkers (not the stuff I am info, but I am glad the game has it).

 

But their gameplay is boring, and usually suck.

 

your concept o' the paladin is not what the developers Expressly announced would be the poe concept.  keep trying to jam a square peg into a round hole if you wish, but your concept ain't necessarily the correct one, and it clearly is at odds with what the obsidians told us, in no uncertain terms, would be the role o' the poe paladin.  as we said already, we thinks it were a mistake to call the poe paladin a paladin, 'cause some folks simple can't let go.

 

also, paladins don't suck unless you play them sucky.  we don't like paladins 'cause we enjoy micromanagement, but their auras and abilities are powerful, and for those who find poe combat frenetic and overwhelming, the paladin is a fantastic option.  couple the paladin with a cleric and you got all your support needs well and fully covered.  chanters frequent take a bit too long to build up to their invocations, and at least until mid-way through the game, you likely won't have chants that genuine is useful for every situation.  the paladin auras are even more general, but they is broad enough to be useful in every battles, and we don't need to wait to make use o' our per encounter abilities.  paladins and clerics work very well together... as complimentary support classes.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[ISC]

I'll answer without quotes because its getting too cumbersome, but its a very interesting discussion.

 

 

From what I read there are two main advantages to the fighter:

1. Battlefield control (engagement + knockdown)

2. Constant recovery

 

The paladin would on the other hand have:

1. A good offensive aura

2. Inherently good defenses (assuming you pick an order that suits you)

 

The thing is that you can control the battlefield in other ways. Doorways are one, but I mostly use the ciphers AOE stuck+paralyze to keep enemies who don't go for the pally in check. And endurance recovery can of course be gained from potions, although I really haven't had to use that more than once or twice (yet!). Neither of these arguments negates the benefits of the fighter, I'm just not entirely convinced the fighter is the better tank. But maybe when you factor in all the talents over all levels the fighter has more useful abilities available.

 

As for the armored and armed "monk" I guess that's another story, it sounds pretty fun though!

 

Now, I have not played too far, just around defiance bay and level 5 or so, but on PotD, and I dont think my paladin has had any trouble tanking anything in particular, so I dont know about the boss argument. 

 

 

 

Let me know if I'm missing something, I really want to consider having a fighter as main tank in the long run.

 

EDIT: Can you run defender and guardian at the same time or are they exclusive? 

Edited March 30, 2015 by ISC

[waretaringo]

I think it's a misconception to see the paladin as intended to be a tank. That doesn't seem to be the way they're intended to work in this game - Faith and Conviction just facilitates an off-tank type of role, pretty much just keeping them alive in the face of whoever the fighter didn't manage to distract.

 

Paladins are primarily intended to be damage dealers with a strong supportive off-role, and they can do the job quite well. 

[ISC]

I think it's a misconception to see the paladin as intended to be a tank. That doesn't seem to be the way they're intended to work in this game - Faith and Conviction just facilitates an off-tank type of role, pretty much just keeping them alive in the face of whoever the fighter didn't manage to distract.

 

Paladins are primarily intended to be damage dealers with a strong supportive off-role, and they can do the job quite well. 

 

Damage dealers? Really? The paladin has the same base stats as the fighter but worse accuracy, no? They are obviously good at tanking because of that (high hp and deflection + the inherent one). But why on earth would you consider them damage dealers? Because of a single ability that can be used twice and gives the same amount of extra damage as every single sneak attack the rogue makes? Even if we dont think of Rogues, its difficult to see how the paladin could out-damage an offensive fighter for example.

 

That said, paladins are certainly a "support class", but a tanky one.

[Viperswhip]

 

I think it's a misconception to see the paladin as intended to be a tank. That doesn't seem to be the way they're intended to work in this game - Faith and Conviction just facilitates an off-tank type of role, pretty much just keeping them alive in the face of whoever the fighter didn't manage to distract.

 

Paladins are primarily intended to be damage dealers with a strong supportive off-role, and they can do the job quite well. 

 

Damage dealers? Really? The paladin has the same base stats as the fighter but worse accuracy, no? They are obviously good at tanking because of that (high hp and deflection + the inherent one). But why on earth would you consider them damage dealers? Because of a single ability that can be used twice and gives the same amount of extra damage as every single sneak attack the rogue makes? Even if we dont think of Rogues, its difficult to see how the paladin could out-damage an offensive fighter for example.

 

That said, paladins are certainly a "support class", but a tanky one.

 

I can tell you that by level 9 Pelligrina is one shotting some enemies, she has a two handed sword that causes knockdown on crits (maybe not every crit, it's hard to tell, she kills really fast), and I enchanted up to 12/12. She is hardly optimally built, and I haven't gone out of my way to manage her equipment, and Eder is wearing the better armor, but she's pretty beastly. I can only imagine what a player built paladin specced to damage would be doing.

 

Still, she's not a true tank, if she gets surrounded her endurance starts to drop, whereas Eder can just stand in the midst of enemies seemingly forever. Still, for the amount of damage she does, and how much tankiness she does have, it's a pretty decent mix of tank and damage, kind of like mercs and two handed warriors from Dark Age of Camelot.

[Gromnir]

 

 I'm just not entirely convinced the fighter is the better tank. But maybe when you factor in all the talents over all levels the fighter has more useful abilities available.

 

 

well, that is kinda the most important factor, isn't it?  abilities and talents is of greater importance than starting attribute choices.  such stuff is also more significant than starting accuracy, deflection and defenses.  vigorous defense, a single fighter ability, grants +20 to all defenses for 15 seconds, and most battles don't even last that long.  knockdown, as others have mentioned, is invaluable as it is effectively a stun that also significantly reduces enemy defenses. the paladin abilities, on the other hand, is support based. eder, the fighter companion, does not have great tank attributes, but 'cause of talent and ability choices, he becomes well nigh unstoppable relatively early in the game... and he also does respectable damage.

 

*shrug*

 

the paladin is a support class.  if you wanna tank as a paladin, you need be very careful in selecting talents and abilities.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[dunehunter]

 

 

I think it's a misconception to see the paladin as intended to be a tank. That doesn't seem to be the way they're intended to work in this game - Faith and Conviction just facilitates an off-tank type of role, pretty much just keeping them alive in the face of whoever the fighter didn't manage to distract.

 

Paladins are primarily intended to be damage dealers with a strong supportive off-role, and they can do the job quite well. 

 

Damage dealers? Really? The paladin has the same base stats as the fighter but worse accuracy, no? They are obviously good at tanking because of that (high hp and deflection + the inherent one). But why on earth would you consider them damage dealers? Because of a single ability that can be used twice and gives the same amount of extra damage as every single sneak attack the rogue makes? Even if we dont think of Rogues, its difficult to see how the paladin could out-damage an offensive fighter for example.

 

That said, paladins are certainly a "support class", but a tanky one.

 

I can tell you that by level 9 Pelligrina is one shotting some enemies, she has a two handed sword that causes knockdown on crits (maybe not every crit, it's hard to tell, she kills really fast), and I enchanted up to 12/12. She is hardly optimally built, and I haven't gone out of my way to manage her equipment, and Eder is wearing the better armor, but she's pretty beastly. I can only imagine what a player built paladin specced to damage would be doing.

 

Still, she's not a true tank, if she gets surrounded her endurance starts to drop, whereas Eder can just stand in the midst of enemies seemingly forever. Still, for the amount of damage she does, and how much tankiness she does have, it's a pretty decent mix of tank and damage, kind of like mercs and two handed warriors from Dark Age of Camelot.

 

 

On POTD you will find out that every battle last much longer, and therefore, passive dps boost abilities are much better than those per encounter ones. Specailly compare roque's speak attack to flame of devotion without doubt.

[Jonthrei]

Yup. Probably just a bug.

 

That said, Fighters are THE tanks to go with currently. That said, that is also all they do better than anyone else.

 

Fighters do single target melee damage better than anyone else too. Barbarians are AOE specialized.

[ISC]

 

 

 I'm just not entirely convinced the fighter is the better tank. But maybe when you factor in all the talents over all levels the fighter has more useful abilities available.

 

 

well, that is kinda the most important factor, isn't it?  abilities and talents is of greater importance than starting attribute choices.  such stuff is also more significant than starting accuracy, deflection and defenses.  vigorous defense, a single fighter ability, grants +20 to all defenses for 15 seconds, and most battles don't even last that long.  knockdown, as others have mentioned, is invaluable as it is effectively a stun that also significantly reduces enemy defenses. the paladin abilities, on the other hand, is support based. eder, the fighter companion, does not have great tank attributes, but 'cause of talent and ability choices, he becomes well nigh unstoppable relatively early in the game... and he also does respectable damage.

 

*shrug*

 

the paladin is a support class.  if you wanna tank as a paladin, you need be very careful in selecting talents and abilities.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I just ran some tests up to level 12 and it seems you're right here, the paladin's talents cant keep up in the long run and that's a very significant difference. Although I don't like having to drop Zealots focus

 

 

 

 

Yup. Probably just a bug.

 

That said, Fighters are THE tanks to go with currently. That said, that is also all they do better than anyone else.

 

Fighters do single target melee damage better than anyone else too. Barbarians are AOE specialized.

 

 

Uhm. Rogues?

[waretaringo]

 

 

 

 I'm just not entirely convinced the fighter is the better tank. But maybe when you factor in all the talents over all levels the fighter has more useful abilities available.

 

 

well, that is kinda the most important factor, isn't it?  abilities and talents is of greater importance than starting attribute choices.  such stuff is also more significant than starting accuracy, deflection and defenses.  vigorous defense, a single fighter ability, grants +20 to all defenses for 15 seconds, and most battles don't even last that long.  knockdown, as others have mentioned, is invaluable as it is effectively a stun that also significantly reduces enemy defenses. the paladin abilities, on the other hand, is support based. eder, the fighter companion, does not have great tank attributes, but 'cause of talent and ability choices, he becomes well nigh unstoppable relatively early in the game... and he also does respectable damage.

 

*shrug*

 

the paladin is a support class.  if you wanna tank as a paladin, you need be very careful in selecting talents and abilities.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I just ran some tests up to level 12 and it seems you're right here, the paladin's talents cant keep up in the long run and that's a very significant difference. Although I don't like having to drop Zealots focus

 

 

 

 

Yup. Probably just a bug.

 

That said, Fighters are THE tanks to go with currently. That said, that is also all they do better than anyone else.

 

Fighters do single target melee damage better than anyone else too. Barbarians are AOE specialized.

 

 

Uhm. Rogues?

 

Rogues are best at range. With guns, especially.

[Jonthrei]

 

 

Yup. Probably just a bug.

 

That said, Fighters are THE tanks to go with currently. That said, that is also all they do better than anyone else.

 

Fighters do single target melee damage better than anyone else too. Barbarians are AOE specialized.

 

 

Uhm. Rogues?

 

 

Rogues have trouble doing damage when they're dead. Melee rogues are kind of silly, they don't have the endurance or deflection to survive there, and they don't have access to the Fighter talents that do absurd things to your base damage. (I had a dual wielding fighter, each of whose weapons did more listed damage than a 2h-weidling barbarian's). Honestly, Rogues are a ranged class. Their implementation is closest to the "ranger" archetype, and the ranger is a pet class.

[Xavori]

Chanters are the best tanks in the game.  Moon godlike chanters to be specific.

 

Constantly AoE healing.  Constant debuff/endurance drain on the enemy.  Constant buff on teammates.

 

And they can wear plate and do the sword and board thing.  I'd throw a pally in with them to get them the zealous AoE, but still chanters are way better than fighters when it comes to tanking.

[Bekk]

My Bleak Walker ****s all over everything. He is always my last guy to die and usually my second highest damage dealer, even if everyone is doing damage for the entire fight.

 

You're doing something wrong, because my Paladin with not-amazing stats is a freight train of destruction.

[DrBrian]

My Bleak Walker ****s all over everything. He is always my last guy to die and usually my second highest damage dealer, even if everyone is doing damage for the entire fight.

 

You're doing something wrong, because my Paladin with not-amazing stats is a freight train of destruction.

Indeed they probably built their pally somewhat poorly. The character creation is misleading though, suggesting int on the pal while it's by far their less useful stat.

Pallies shine as tanky damage dealers with 3 int, 3 perception and everything else maxed, with a good old 2H equiped. They're at their best in between the fighter and the rogue in terms of role.

Edited March 31, 2015 by DrBrian

[Bekk]

 

My Bleak Walker ****s all over everything. He is always my last guy to die and usually my second highest damage dealer, even if everyone is doing damage for the entire fight.

 

You're doing something wrong, because my Paladin with not-amazing stats is a freight train of destruction.

Indeed they probably built their pally somewhat poorly. The character creation is misleading though, suggesting int on the pal while it's by far their less useful stat.

Pallies shine as tanky damage dealers with 3 int, 3 perception and everything else maxed, with a good old 2H equiped. They're at their best in between the fighter and the rogue in terms of role.

 

IIRC it recommends perception, resolve, might - not int. I put my points into those 3 and didnt drop anything because i didnt realize i could. I have like 18 resolve and everything else is 14s or so.

 

You don't need great stats, you just need to build how you want to play.

[dunehunter]

 

My Bleak Walker ****s all over everything. He is always my last guy to die and usually my second highest damage dealer, even if everyone is doing damage for the entire fight.

 

You're doing something wrong, because my Paladin with not-amazing stats is a freight train of destruction.

Indeed they probably built their pally somewhat poorly. The character creation is misleading though, suggesting int on the pal while it's by far their less useful stat.

Pallies shine as tanky damage dealers with 3 int, 3 perception and everything else maxed, with a good old 2H equiped. They're at their best in between the fighter and the rogue in terms of role.

 

 

In term of between the fighter and the rogue in terms of role, do you mean their tank ability ? I doubt they can exceed in dps over fighter IMHO.

[Brastias]

I also agree with the OP Paladin feels somewhat dull and underwhelming. Hope they get some improvement. I will play one anyway because I always play a paladin in these type games

[Viperswhip]

 

 

 

Yup. Probably just a bug.

 

That said, Fighters are THE tanks to go with currently. That said, that is also all they do better than anyone else.

 

Fighters do single target melee damage better than anyone else too. Barbarians are AOE specialized.

 

 

Uhm. Rogues?

 

 

Rogues have trouble doing damage when they're dead. Melee rogues are kind of silly, they don't have the endurance or deflection to survive there, and they don't have access to the Fighter talents that do absurd things to your base damage. (I had a dual wielding fighter, each of whose weapons did more listed damage than a 2h-weidling barbarian's). Honestly, Rogues are a ranged class. Their implementation is closest to the "ranger" archetype, and the ranger is a pet class.

 

There is a war bow you can buy that stuns on crit (most of the time as far as I can tell), and with Hearth Orlan, and skills, you crit a lot, you can really shut down a battlefield. There's a two handed sword that knocks guys prone on crit, so a paladin with Soldier Focus can have a war hammer and shield on for tanking (pierce/crush), or a two handed sword for doing mega damage/disable (slash/pierce), it's way better than an Esotic in my mind, because the better of two damage types is better than 5 DR.

 

A Moon Godlike Paladin though...ya, I have one going on Hard (only level 5, cleared Raedric's) and she is doing quite well, maybe a Moon God fighter would never get close to dying but I think I'd rather get a bit more damage by going Hearth Orlan on a fighter.

[Fun3z]

Sure paladins arent an crazy dps class but if built right, they will do decent dmg.

 

Paladin tanks are in my opinion the best, as they can buff the whole party with crit and accuracy, have an on demand heal etc.

 

My main saves paladin tank has been downed like 8 times the whole game, level 12 and cleared pretty much 95% of the game, all hard bosses etc.

[ISC]

 

Rogues are best at range. With guns, especially.

 

 

Best as in most efficient for the class? Yeah perhaps, but that does not mean that rogues do less damage than anyone else in melee.

 

Rogues have trouble doing damage when they're dead. Melee rogues are kind of silly, they don't have the endurance or deflection to survive there, and they don't have access to the Fighter talents that do absurd things to your base damage. (I had a dual wielding fighter, each of whose weapons did more listed damage than a 2h-weidling barbarian's). Honestly, Rogues are a ranged class. Their implementation is closest to the "ranger" archetype, and the ranger is a pet class.

 

 

Yeah, if you let your rogue die damage becomes a problem. But I've been running a melee rogue on PotD just fine, as long as you control the battlefield he can usually just waltz around blinding strike -stabbing people in the back with an estoc while they are flanked with the tank. They dont have the endurance (or deflection) to survive facetanking opponents, that doesn't make them useless or a worse damage dealer than a fighter.

 

I also wouldn't call rogues a ranged class, not only for above reason but because they have melee-only and almost-melee-only abilities. Lets just say that rogues are less micromanagement when ranged (I used one of each).

 

Chanters are the best tanks in the game.  Moon godlike chanters to be specific.

 

Constantly AoE healing.  Constant debuff/endurance drain on the enemy.  Constant buff on teammates.

 

And they can wear plate and do the sword and board thing.  I'd throw a pally in with them to get them the zealous AoE, but still chanters are way better than fighters when it comes to tanking.

 

This is very interesting, but you don't find that the chanter lacks a bit on the defenses in the long run compared to fighters or pally? What difficulty-level are we talking about? 

Edited March 31, 2015 by ISC